I pose a question:

[The Question]

No. It doesn't do virtually nothing. It just doesn't incopasitate him to the degree that it did pre crisis.

 

[The Leaguer]

Which is pretty much nothing. An amount of Kryptonite that used to drop him by being near it, he now basically doesn't notice it until it touches him. That's a massive drop in effectiveness.

 

[regwec]

Ras' AL Gul would still be alive.

Oh ye of little faith. I am reasonably confident that Ra's will resurface during the event's of 52. Amongst all the babble and graffiti in the last frame of the most recent issue, the Lazarus pits were mentioned. Events in Robin also offer an oppurtunity for the return of Daemon.

Also, given Morrison's comments about his desire to return Batman to an O'Neilesque paradigm, we might suspect that the al Ghul family will have a part to play.

 

[The Question]

The thing about Ra's is that his whole gimick consists of not dying, or not staying dead for very long when he does die. If any character is easy to resurect, it's Ra's.

 

[Ben Urich]

As much as I love Greg Rucka, I was pretty pissed at him when he killed of Ra's in Death and the Maidens

 

[trustyside-kick]

Going back to the somewhat arguement about the kryptonite's effectiveness on Superman:

Wouldn't the size of the kryptonite be a big factor? Larger amount of kryptonite = more radiation.

In this arguement we are discussing the effectiveness in the fight in Hush with Batman punching Supes about 3 or so times with the hand that is wearing the kryptonite ring. So we cannot really use the Hush fight to argue about how much less kryptonite affects Superman because the only reason why it hurts him at all is because of the high levels of radiation it gives off on him; Batman's ring is way too small to greatly weaken him. Besides, not like Loeb wrote Batman kicking Supes ass anyway; more like outsmarting him.

 

[The Leaguer]

Duh.

My point was, had you read what I said, the Kryptonite ring nowadays does virtually nothing unless it's in direct contact with Superman's skin. In the past, the Kryptonite ring would put him on his knees.

That's how you measure effectiveness with the Kryptonite ring.

And he didn't outsmart Superman anymore than you can outsmart a mindless zombie. Or a mindless anything, I guess. It doesn't really have to be a zombie if you preface it with "mindless."

 

[SuperFerret]

The whole "outsmarting" thing is wrong too, Bruce didn't really outsmart Clark because Clark was fighting against Ivy's control while he was being forced to fight Bruce. Batman just used that to his advantage.

 

[trustyside-kick]

How was when he tricked Clark into flying into the high voltage not outsmarting? That would not matter if he was fighting her control or not.

I am well aware that Clark tried to hold back but when he got shocked was being outsmarted.

 

[The Leaguer]

I told my friend his shoelace was untied and he looked.

Did I outsmart him!?

 

[trustyside-kick]

I told my friend his shoelace was untied and he looked.

Did I outsmart him!?

Bad example, nothing would happen to your friend from doing so.

Bruce goes and tells him how he opened a gas main and that if he uses his heat vision he will blow up the entire block. He then does stuff to piss Clark off (the hypersonics and blinding temporarily) and then Clark in rage tries to hit him and he dodges and Clark hits the gas main and gets shocked.

 

[Anubis]

Did you give him a donkey kong punch to the head after he looked down?

 

[The Leaguer]

That's not outsmarting, that's tricking. Outsmarting implies that Superman was using his full focus, concentration and intelligence. There's no way in Hell Supes was using more than half of it.

Did you give him a donkey kong punch to the head after he looked down?

Yeah, and he loved it, so I got freaked out and left.

 

[trustyside-kick]

Since when is it outsmarting only if the other person is trying their best? Reguardless if they are trying hard or not if you outsmart them...you outsmart them...

 

[The Leaguer]

He didn't outsmart Superman, he exploited Superman's lack of focus. Batman knew Superman wasn't focusing on killing him. He says so. If you're trying to say Hush was an example of Batman outsmarting Superman, you're insane.

 

[trustyside-kick]

Not trying to kill him? The very first thing Superman did was dead aim shoot his beams right at him bearly missing...

And I know it is not the best example of him outsmarting him...but however how small he did outsmart him. And notice I am only referring to the part where he gets shocked.

 

[Anubis]

I'd perfur to believe he outsmarted Ivy in that situation.

 

[trustyside-kick]

Meh whatever...I guess the better term would be tricking Supes but part of the fight I still think was outsmarting no matter how small...I'm not going to have several posts arguing about it.

 

[The Leaguer]

Not trying to kill him? The very first thing Superman did was dead aim shoot his beams right at him bearly missing...

And I know it is not the best example of him outsmarting him...but however how small he did outsmart him. And notice I am only referring to the part where he gets shocked.

Do you think a clear-headed Superman out to kill, with super-speed and super-vision, would miss?

 

[trustyside-kick]

A clear-headed Superman would not do that in the first place; kill. So when being controlled to kill that is different.

Bats knew what his first move would be (or at least that is what Loeb wrote), so he got down in time (right before it would occur).

 

[The Leaguer]

Of course he knew what Supes' first move would be, but if Superman was really trying to kill him and wasn't using most of his effort to fight off Ivy's effect rather than actually trying to kill, Batman literallly wouldn't have time to do anything.

Super-speed.

 

[trustyside-kick]

Him using his super speed was not what his first move was, was the beams.

After a while I know he was fighting Ivy but I still think with the first attack he wasn't fighting it yet. Bats just got lucky with timing since he knew what he would do.

 

[The Leaguer]

Him using his super speed was not what his first move was, was the beams.

Please tell me you're kidding. Please.

 

[trustyside-kick]

His first move was the beams...I can even go get the book right now.

I am not talking about a general fight with Superman not being mindcontrolled and fighting Bats I am talking about what happened with that scenario in Hush. Besides...either way Batman never mentioned his superspeed until after that (the beam part) when he starts to talk about how Superman must be holding back. He mentions Superman holding back when he uses his artic breath.

 

[The Leaguer]

His first OFFENSIVE move was the heat vision. Do you really think he can't use super-speed and heat vision simultaneously?