The Dark Knight Rises I really want to see Batman lose control

[david icke]

It was not self-defense. Joker was not going to kill Batman and at that point wasn't even fighting him. Batman threw him off the building to stop him from blowing up the ferries, and again, if he hadn't saved him it would have been murder.

I'm talking about the law, not what you perceive is going on in the movie at that point.
If a guy has you pinned down and is threatening you with a knife you're allowed a certain amount of self defence. If your life is in danger from that person(which it was) you can take the other person's life in self defence. But, if you have the means of disabling that person without killing them you have to take it. So, as long as Batman at least did everything in his power to disable Joker and then save his life, it's self defence.
ie Even if he had missed with the grappling hook it still would have been self defence.

If you think that operating in self defence, of yourself or others, is, as you put it, 'cold blooded murder', you have a poor understanding of the term.
'cold blooded murder' means to kill someone without any feeling in your heart, for no reason other than to kill the person. Here, Batman was concerned with saving the lives of innocents, and himself, and even then he tried to save the Joker. Even if he had missed with the grappling hook, he would have still tried to save him, pretty far from being 'cold blooded'. Or indeed, murder.

'The joker wasn't even fighting him?', yes, he was, it was just at that point in the fight he had Batman immobilised and held at knifepoint. He was fighting to keep Batman down.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Batman shouldnt lose it until The Joker comes back. Joker is the only one who can press Batmans buttons to cause destruction.

 

[Two-Face]

Batman shouldnt lose it until The Joker comes back. Joker is the only one who can press Batmans buttons to cause destruction.

Exactly.

 

[Brother Jack]

I'm talking about the law, not what you perceive is going on in the movie at that point.
If a guy has you pinned down and is threatening you with a knife you're allowed a certain amount of self defence. If your life is in danger from that person(which it was) you can take the other person's life in self defence. But, if you have the means of disabling that person without killing them you have to take it. So, as long as Batman at least did everything in his power to disable Joker and then save his life, it's self defence.
ie Even if he had missed with the grappling hook it still would have been self defence.

If you think that operating in self defence, of yourself or others, is, as you put it, 'cold blooded murder', you have a poor understanding of the term.
'cold blooded murder' means to kill someone without any feeling in your heart, for no reason other than to kill the person. Here, Batman was concerned with saving the lives of innocents, and himself, and even then he tried to save the Joker. Even if he had missed with the grappling hook, he would have still tried to save him, pretty far from being 'cold blooded'. Or indeed, murder.

'The joker wasn't even fighting him?', yes, he was, it was just at that point in the fight he had Batman immobilised and held at knifepoint. He was fighting to keep Batman down.

You're probably right, but I still don't think it would be justifiable for Batman not to have saved the Joker.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Batman shouldnt lose it until The Joker comes back. Joker is the only one who can press Batmans buttons to cause destruction.

Hush, Ras, TwoFace, Bane and others have done the same in many instances.

 

[Rodrigo90]

But NOTHING like The Joker. Nobody comes as close as Joker when it comes to making Batman almost cross the line he drew.

 

[david icke]

You're probably right, but I still don't think it would be justifiable for Batman not to have saved the Joker.

That's part of what i was saying. If Batman didn't do everything in his power to make sure Joker didn't die when fighting back in self defence, it wouldn't be self defence technically. ie If he hadn't tried to fire the grappling rope at him it would be tantamount to murder, but if he had accidently missed when aiming, and Joker had died, he would have done his best and it would still be self defence.

 

[Harry_Lime02]

Yeah...he uh...he tackled Two-Face over the edge of a ledge and sent him falling to his death. Killing him.

He also ordered the destruction of the monorail that Ras Al Gul plummeted to death from, if I'm not mistaken. Just saying.

And thanks, OP. I now have Joy Division suck in my head.

 

[david icke]

He also ordered the destruction of the monorail that Ras Al Gul plummeted to death from, if I'm not mistaken. Just saying.

.

Batman may have technically killed people whilst being on the job. But they have not been murders per se.
With Two-Face it was a desperate lunge after being shot, in defence of the life of a child.
With Ras Al Ghul, yes, BM did set up the plan to blow up the tracks, but again that was in defence of the lives of innocents.
And as for not saving Ras al ghul, he may have said this, but really, how was there a way of BM saving Ras Al Ghul there without putting his own life in danger from Al Ghul, who was intent on killing him.
It was Al Ghul who set in motion the event of his own death by trying to kill others, in essence he killed himself.
If he is dead of course, he might've made it out a window or something.