Sequels If they used The Green Goblin in the sequels, he should look like this....

[super-t]

http://www.**************.com/images/users/uploads/8558/ultimatespider-man-20050919000649052-000.jpg

perfect.

fail...

 

[Ajendo]

Well that suit is essentially the Raimi suit but just with a different face. They didn't use that exact design because there were too many parts on the costume and it would have cost too much money so they simplified it.

And it showed. If a film costs $150million to make, then the money has to be shown on screen. They clearly went for a cheaper and crappier alternative and for what? They still believed making the movie was a potential risk??

If so and I have heard this excuse being used as to why they went for the cheap look, why on earth, did they pay their lead actor, who hadn't been a leading man in a commercial film $5million, when if there was such trepidation in making the movie? Garfield has more star power than Maguire did prior to being cast as spidey and Garfield's getting nowhere near $5million.

At the end of the day, I call bullcrap on this, I see it simply as the movie makers going ahead with a poor decision. Cheaper and even better alternatives were out there but were left unexplored or simply, the movie thought it could get away with crap, which in many ways it did.

 

[NinjaCarm]

And it showed. If a film costs $150million to make, then the money has to be shown on screen. They clearly went for a cheaper and crappier alternative and for what? They still believed making the movie was a potential risk??

If so and I have heard this excuse being used as to why they went for the cheap look, why on earth, did they pay their lead actor, who hadn't been a leading man in a commercial film $5million, when if there was such trepidation in making the movie? Garfield has more star power than Maguire did prior to being cast as spidey and Garfield's getting nowhere near $5million.

At the end of the day, I call bullcrap on this, I see it simply as the movie makers going ahead with a poor decision. Cheaper and even better alternatives were out there but were left unexplored or simply, the movie thought it could get away with crap, which in many ways it did.

I think I share your opinion on this but I can't say for sure. I think they wanted to play it safe and make him as appealingly bland as possible to not scare people. Which I loathe.

Again, I have stated I still liked the Green Goblin in part 1 and even admired where they headed with New Goblin, but it didn't satisfy me.

Now I have to wonder if we will even get the Green Goblin in this series and if we do, what will he look like? Will he meet our collective imagination of the perfect blend of scary green mask physco with green and purple, ala Thunderbolts Green Goblin?

Time will tell.

 

[hame4479]

Yeah, these masks are pretty cool. Problem for me is, I really want to see Goblin emote. I want to see his face actually move and twist into evil grins and horrifying snarls. This mask, while a great proof of concept really won’t do that. I’m of the idea that they should present goblin’s mask to be of this variety to the audience, but when Gobby has it on, it is in reality prosthetics and make up that look like the mask, but will be more malleable for the actor’s expressions to show through (think of the Orcs from LoTR).

Im sure the mask that the studio would go with would be a step above the cfx mask above and probably emote a little more. It would be an awesome goblin mask tho. I want one.

 

[spida-man]

Leaked pictures!!!!


t:

lmao

 

[Venom'sDad]

It didn't really look that bad, especially given the tone and the direction that they took with Osborn in the film. It was a military weapon, same for the glider, it worked. Did it look like a power ranger enemy, yes of course, did it take away from Green Goblin, no not at all. He was still recognizeable,

I agree about the tone they chose, it did fit. The problem I had was not so much the armor or body suit; but the mask. Sam had the opportunity to capture the essence of Norman reason behind the mask, and he fail. Those that know, knows that Norman believe that the mask should immediately strike fear into the heart of an adversary; which is half the battle in defeating an adversary, into submission... like a Witch Doctor has over his subjects.

What was even more disappointing with Raimi was the fact, he capture that idea, when he showed Norman's study with his collection of masks and spiritual carvings and artifacts from his travels... but fail to incorporate it in Norman's Goblin persona.

So instead of having that power ranger mask, Raimi should have let Norman wear the armor suit; but, incorporate his belief in a mask of his creation, in order to project that persona in to the Goblin being. Beside, why would a military unit wear that mask... I would think they would wear something much more in line with what Harry wore. It just didn't make sense to me; and, just another one of many, missed opportunity by Sam, had he truly understood the character, as he say he did.

 

[Vid Electricz]

I agree about the tone they chose, it did fit. The problem I had was not so much the armor or body suit; but the mask. Sam had the opportunity to capture the essence of Norman reason behind the mask, and he fail. Those that know, knows that Norman believe that the mask should immediately strike fear into the heart of an adversary; which is half the battle in defeating an adversary, into submission... like a Witch Doctor has over his subjects.

What was even more disappointing with Raimi was the fact, he capture that idea, when he showed Norman's study with his collection of masks and spiritual carvings and artifacts from his travels... but fail to incorporate it in Norman's Goblin persona.

So instead of having that power ranger mask, Raimi should have let Norman wear the armor suit; but, incorporate his belief in a mask of his creation, in order to project that persona in to the Goblin being. Beside, why would a military unit wear that mask... I would think they would wear something much more in line with what Harry wore. It just didn't make sense to me; and, just another one of many, missed opportunity by Sam, had he truly understood the character, as he say he did.

So, even though the character of Norman Osborn was a man that put his business and work before his family and neglected his son and who went insane on account of his miscalculations in an experiment and and who flew around new york city as a green garbed madman (with a mask that is clearly identifiable as that of a "goblin") on a jet glider while using pumpkin bombs and razor bats as weapons...Sam Raimi somehow has no understanding of the character?

Yeah, that sounds absolutely nothing like the comic book or the character of Norman Osborn/Green Goblin.

Just because Sam Raimi altered a few superficial things about a characters aesthetic- a character who would be very difficult to translate into the "real world" from the page of the comic book anyway- that means he had no understanding of the character? More fanboy tunnel vision!

PS.
Also, I believe it's logic that the audience is meant to understand that Norman creates the goblin mask himself. It's not something provided along with the suit his company is developing.

 

[Venom'sDad]

Well LOL, apparently Sam isn't the only one lacking understanding. Dude, you completely missed the point of the post; and, simplified poorly, the very persona of Norman's Goblin.

 

[Vid Electricz]

Well LOL, apparently Sam isn't the only one lacking understanding. Dude, you completely missed the point of the post; and, simplified poorly, the very persona of Norman's Goblin.

LOL. Why don't you explain it better then? This post of yours tells me absolutely nothing. How in the wide wide world of sports is Norman Osborn's character so insanely complex that what I described doesn't do him justice? I'd be interested to hear.

You wax on about Norman striking fear into his enemies with inspiration from his tribal mask collection(?) So, since you didn't expand on this idea at all, I can only assume you would've wanted Norman wearing a tribal inspired mask with his shiny green body armor. You can offer a critique, but you offer no creative solution in it's place, which is useless. Like most fanboys, you don't seem to know what you want.


The character of Norman Osborn, in the comics (and film, minus the tribal masks) is exactly as I described. What am I missing oh wise one (If you can type more than a sentence in response)? We're not talking about Dostoevsky here, we're talking about a character called the Green Goblin.

I thought Sam's rationalization for why the character wears a mask at all was pretty great (and NOT meant to be taken literally, as you have) given that in the comics, he dons this strange costume for no other reason than Stan Lee wanting to write a villain called the Green Goblin.

 

[rowleyslims]

ill try and summerize this. i think both vid and venom, with the way they worded their postings, both belive the portrayal of norman was excentally done, and i agree. but according venom he thought the suit they chose, mainly the mask, was just lacking. and i can see where he is coming from. the goblin was insane and had his emotions on his face in the comics to show this. the mask used by raimi just didnt supply these emotions (his gnarly grin for example) but looked more as a power ranger goblin on a glider reeking havoc. venom even said he didnt mind the suit so much, even though i did haha, but it was the mask that he would of prefered done differently.

LOL. Why don't you explain it better then? This post of yours tells me absolutely nothing. How in the wide wide world of sports is Norman Osborn's character so insanely complex that what I described doesn't do him justice? I'd be interested to hear.

You wax on about Norman striking fear into his enemies with inspiration from his tribal mask collection(?) So, since you didn't expand on this idea at all, I can only assume you would've wanted Norman wearing a tribal inspired mask with his shiny green body armor. You can offer a critique, but you offer no creative solution in it's place, which is useless. Like most fanboys, you don't seem to know what you want.


The character of Norman Osborn, in the comics (and film, minus the tribal masks) is exactly as I described. What am I missing oh wise one (If you can type more than a sentence in response)? We're not talking about Dostoevsky here, we're talking about a character called the Green Goblin.

I thought Sam's rationalization for why the character wears a mask at all was pretty great (and NOT meant to be taken literally, as you have) given that in the comics, he dons this strange costume for no other reason than Stan Lee wanting to write a villain called the Green Goblin.

 

[Ajendo]

I think I share your opinion on this but I can't say for sure. I think they wanted to play it safe and make him as appealingly bland as possible to not scare people. Which I loathe.

Again, I have stated I still liked the Green Goblin in part 1 and even admired where they headed with New Goblin, but it didn't satisfy me.

Now I have to wonder if we will even get the Green Goblin in this series and if we do, what will he look like? Will he meet our collective imagination of the perfect blend of scary green mask physco with green and purple, ala Thunderbolts Green Goblin?

Time will tell.

I'm just glad we're getting the cap movie because I'm interested to see how they're going to pull off the red skull. If his face is able to work credibly then should we get GG again, his mask shouldn't even be a shadow of an issue.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

I agree about the tone they chose, it did fit. The problem I had was not so much the armor or body suit; but the mask. Sam had the opportunity to capture the essence of Norman reason behind the mask, and he fail. Those that know, knows that Norman believe that the mask should immediately strike fear into the heart of an adversary; which is half the battle in defeating an adversary, into submission... like a Witch Doctor has over his subjects.

What was even more disappointing with Raimi was the fact, he capture that idea, when he showed Norman's study with his collection of masks and spiritual carvings and artifacts from his travels... but fail to incorporate it in Norman's Goblin persona.

So instead of having that power ranger mask, Raimi should have let Norman wear the armor suit; but, incorporate his belief in a mask of his creation, in order to project that persona in to the Goblin being. Beside, why would a military unit wear that mask... I would think they would wear something much more in line with what Harry wore. It just didn't make sense to me; and, just another one of many, missed opportunity by Sam, had he truly understood the character, as he say he did.

Just because they had a hard time adapting the Goblin mask does not mean he misunderstood the character. i thought the characterisation of the Goblin /NOsborn was pretty much spot on.

Basically, the Goblin mask in the comics was impossible to do, they tried their best to get the essence of the image, while incorporating a way to show his real eyes sometimes, and even his mouth through the mesh mouth piece.
Sometimes the mask looked good on film, but no, it was not ideal. I think the best idea for the new trilogy is to have him mutate real 'Goblin' features when he injects himself with more serum b4 going out on a job. There's just no mask that is going to be as versatile or look as good as full on face make up.

and as for the outpouring of praise for that concept drawing of the goblin...it is really not *that* different from the one we got in the movie.
Once that was made into a real costume it could have looked worse than the movie one, it looks a little busy, like something off of 'Farscape'. I think there is a good chance, had they used that design in the movie, people would be moaning about how it was 'too busy'(much like folk moan about TDK costume), and would be posting concept sketches of the one we got in the movie, saying 'they should have used this more simple design'.

But for me, the armour is not really the issue, it's getting the mask/facial image right. And it can be done, not with rubber masks, but with Hellboy type make up and prosthetics. You could have it that he even takes the name 'Green Goblin' because his facial muscles mutate into that kind of shape when taking fresh shots of the serum.
I don't know how they explain it in the ultimate comics, but as someone else said earlier , they could do an amalgam of the two versions.

 

[Ajendo]

the best idea for the new trilogy is to have him mutate real 'Goblin' features when he injects himself with more serum b4 going out on a job. There's just no mask that is going to be as versatile or look as good as full on face make up.

You know, I'm convinced some execs said the exact same thing in the board room and such people should be fired from their jobs immediately. I really hope to God there aren't people working on these movies who think the way you do.

I cant wait to see how the red skull will look in the new cap film.

 

[Oscorp]

Red Skull looks pretty great in the short second you can see him in the trailer imo.

 

[Vid Electricz]

You know, I'm convinced some execs said the exact same thing in the board room and such people should be fired from their jobs immediately. I really hope to God there aren't people working on these movies who think the way you do.

I cant wait to see how the red skull will look in the new cap film.

Are those the same people who suggested changes to the design of the classic Spider-Man costume?

 

[Ajendo]

Bar the silver soles (for now at least) the changes to the costume aren't as big an issue as opposed to the green robobuster imo. That being said, the classic design could and should have been kept but regardless, the changes to the suit aren't drastic enough for me to hate the design or make the costume look unrecognizzable as spider-man. The green robobuster was just stank.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

You know, I'm convinced some execs said the exact same thing in the board room and such people should be fired from their jobs immediately. I really hope to God there aren't people working on these movies who think the way you do.

I cant wait to see how the red skull will look in the new cap film.

What is so wrong with having his facial features mutate in goblin form?! It could be better than some crappy mask that obscures his features.

and if you are thinking the Red Skull make up will be a barometer for 'how to do a GG mask correctly.' think again Ajendo. Because the Red Skull make up will not look like a mask, if it successfully pulls off the image in real life.
You can't have someone look like a monster in a movie and say 'That's him wearing a mask', at some point in the movie you will probably have to see him take his mask off, especially given Norman's inevitable unmasking in front of Peter.

All it will do is make it look like a good idea to do make up that makes the Goblin into a mutated face man! and we can have the Goblin inject himself with a serum to regain his human features in front of Peter.
It's no more of a deviation in essence than the Joker wearing make-up in TDK, and the Goblin in the 616 comics *looks* like a guy who has turned into a Goblin, not a mask, so if you want to achieve that effect, you are going to have to adapt the character a bit for the screen.

 

[Ajendo]

What is so wrong with having his facial features mutate in goblin form?! It could be better than some crappy mask that obscures his features.

Dont be so absurd. Norman mutating into some goblin beast is a crappy idea and takes away any uniqueness of such characters that actually do mutate, such as the lizard. One of the reasons why spidey's rogues gallery is so rich and one of the best if not THE best is because the villains are so diverse. Furthermore, Norman mutating into a monster is nowhere near as appealing as a crazed maniac who puts on a costuem.

and if you are thinking the Red Skull make up will be a barometer for 'how to do a GG mask correctly.' think again Ajendo.Because the Red Skull make up will not look like a mask, if it successfully pulls off the image in real life.

I think YOU need to think again, bumboy. Weaving is wearing a mask, the fact that it's supposed to be his face is a testament to how realistic the mask is, something Norman can easily work with and be impressive enough for when we actually see Norman's actual face. The key thing that gets thrown around is for Norman to emote and have his features expressed when wearing the mask and with such a mask we can get this.

You can't have someone look like a monster in a movie and say 'That's him wearing a mask', at some point in the movie you will probably have to see him take his mask off, especially given Norman's inevitable unmasking in front of Peter.

Yes you can. No one is saying Norman will look like an Ork. The guy is supposed to be a GOBLIN, not wearing some stupid looking ghost face mask. The character is a maniac, which serves as to why and how he'll wear such a sadistic, life-like mask. Understand the character and you'll understand the motivation.

All it will do is make it look like a good idea to do make up that makes the Goblin into a mutated face man!

A mutated face? Its supposed to be a fear-inducing mask. You do know what a goblin is supposed to look like right? You can get scary realistic-looking masks and that's precisely what Norman needs to have NOT mutate into some green beast.

and we can have the Goblin inject himself with a serum to regain his human features in front of Peter.

step away from the USM comics.

It's no more of a deviation in essence than the Joker wearing make-up in TDK, and the Goblin in the 616 comics *looks* like a guy who has turned into a Goblin, not a mask, so if you want to achieve that effect, you are going to have to adapt the character a bit for the screen.

by turning him, physically into a mutated beast?? I dont even kow why we're wasting time arguing this, it's not gonna happen mainly because it's a bullcrap idea.

 

[TheSlag]

You can't have someone look like a monster in a movie and say 'That's him wearing a mask', at some point in the movie you will probably have to see him take his mask off, especially given Norman's inevitable unmasking in front of Peter.

what.. what.. what?????

All it will do is make it look like a good idea to do make up that makes the Goblin into a mutated face man! and we can have the Goblin inject himself with a serum to regain his human features in front of Peter.

No.. NO.... NO!!!!!!!!

Sheesh, what is with these 5 second transformations?

 

[TheSlag]

Dont be so absurd. Norman mutating into some goblin beast is a crappy idea and takes away any uniqueness of such characters that actually do mutate, such as the lizard. One of the reasons why spidey's rogues gallery is so rich and one of the best if not THE best is because the villains are so diverse. Furthermore, Norman mutating into a monster is nowhere near as appealing as a crazed maniac who puts on a costuem.

Spot on! The best part of a great post!

I think YOU need to think again, bumboy. Weaving is wearing a mask, the fact that it's supposed to be his face is a testament to how realistic the mask is, something Norman can easily work with and be impressive enough for when we actually see Norman's actual face. The key thing that gets thrown around is for Norman to emote and have his features expressed when wearing the mask and with such a mask we can get this.



Yes you can. No one is saying Norman will look like an Ork. The guy is supposed to be a GOBLIN, not wearing some stupid looking ghost face mask. The character is a maniac, which serves as to why and how he'll wear such a sadistic, life-like mask. Understand the character and you'll understand the motivation.



A mutated face? Its supposed to be a fear-inducing mask. You do know what a goblin is supposed to look like right? You can get scary realistic-looking masks and that's precisely what Norman needs to have NOT mutate into some green beast.



step away from the USM comics.



by turning him, physically into a mutated beast?? I dont even kow why we're wasting time arguing this, it's not gonna happen mainly because it's a bullcrap idea.

Totally agree with all these points too, but the first point really stood out.

 

[Pumpkin_Bomb]

Some people still don't get it. Honestly, the Goblin is a very disturbed individual. Now, what sounds more crazy: a person turning into a monster as a side-effect of the source of his power, or that person choosing to make himself look like a monster? That's the thing some people don't seem to get about Osborn, the fact that he chooses to look that way says as much as the look itself.

 

[Ajendo]

Spot on! The best part of a great post!





Totally agree with all these points too, but the first point really stood out.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Some people still don't get it. Honestly, the Goblin is a very disturbed individual. Now, what sounds more crazy: a person turning into a monster as a side-effect of the source of his power, or that person choosing to make himself look like a monster? That's the thing some people don't seem to get about Osborn, the fact that he chooses to look that way says as much as the look itself.

Ok, this is a good point, *but* the Goblin is crazy in so many ways, I would not mind sacrificing this aspect of his craziness for a cool monster visage like the one in the 616 books.

and Ajendo, i am not wanting the Goblin to be a mutated creature, just that his face mutates into having Goblin like features, so we can have a look like the 616 books onscreen.

But, if they can come up with a mask that looks as good and as versatile and face revealing as face make-up, then I am all for sticking to the 616 Goblin aspects.

 

[Ajendo]

Some people still don't get it. Honestly, the Goblin is a very disturbed individual. Now, what sounds more crazy: a person turning into a monster as a side-effect of the source of his power, or that person choosing to make himself look like a monster? That's the thing some people don't seem to get about Osborn, the fact that he chooses to look that way says as much as the look itself.

speaking my language.

 

[Galactus123]