If you Don't like the movie - POST HERE

[gambitfire]

Who had the better effects?

 

[BMM]

do you think it would be possible that they could redo x3 instead of making an x4? is that logical I mean Im sure if they got singer back and did what was supposed to happen, it would garner much more critical support and make a boat load of more money (especially since it would be the first major film that was actually completely redone with the original casts to my knowledge.)

Haha. No, it won't happen. Fox doesn't seem to put much effort into some of its movies the first time around let alone a second. Besides, the movie made money... and that's what's important to the studio.

... but there has actually been a case in which a studio shot two separate versions of the same movie... and released both versions of the movie due to the lackluster reception of the first version. It happened a few years ago with the prequel to The Exorcist. Essentially, two versions of the movie were filmed at the same time. Exorcist: The Beginning was released in 2004. It was not well received by critics or fans. Because of its reception, the studio decided to release Dominion: Prequel to the Exorcist a year later... unfortunately, it was not very well received either. Stellan Skarsgard (a young father Marrin) starred in both versions.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Huh. Nell and I agreeing on something for a change. Well what do you know. t:

I agree with the "haters" a lot more than one might think from someone who so adamantly loves this film.

I share many of the same complaints that the "haters" of this film has. The only difference is, those complaints effected my overall enjoyment less so than it did that of the "haters".

My biggest beef with the "haters" is the constant nitpicking, with arguements such as plastic needles vs. metal needles, bridge lengths, people dying or not when the bridge was dropped, Wolverine's velocity and angle when being thrown through the ceiling by Juggernaut, and all of those other silly nitpicks that have no bearing what so ever on the plot or quality of the film. This is a science fiction, fantasy movie, based on a comic book, a movie in which real world science and logic is not to be applied. Sure, it might try to be GROUNDED in our world, but it's still a piece of fiction, it's still fantasy, science fiction, and based on a comic book. Thinking about it in terms of real world physics and science is not the way to approach these films, and I merely see it as mindless bashing to try to prove a point, and try to further justify the negative viewpoint as "right" and the positive viewpoint as "wrong".

The legitamate gripes, however, that deal with the faithfullness to the source material, the overall quality of the film making; i.e. plot development and depth, as well as a few instances of script quality, I agree with a good 80 - 90% of the complaints on here. They just didn't have the same negative impact on me overall as it did on others. But those complaints still exist. And if you go back through, this thread I believe, as well as some others, you'll see that I've had my fair share of arguements and debates with even X-Maniac and The Guard, arguing where things didn't work.

Where my "hatred" of the nitpick camp lies against the "haters", I also feel the same feelings towards X-Maniac and The Guard sometimes, who I feel are too naiive to understand when things simply weren't done well.

 

[gambitfire]

^................ *read last line*

EVERYONE DODGE FOR COVER!!!



















lol j/k

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

What, are you shocked that I think some of the supporters can be just as bad as the "haters" that I find myself quite frustrated with at times?

 

[gambitfire]

No, i just didn't think you'd say it.

 

[xmenfilesfan05]

I enjoy Nell's "company"...I've missed him, it feels like he hasn't been around a whole lot.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I agree with the "haters" a lot more than one might think from someone who so adamantly loves this film.

Trust me, I know your stand on the flick. You have complaints and agree that it certainly was no masterpiece, but in the end you think they got more right than wrong. Well, the cliff notes version anyway. Also, yes, you do get props for not nitpicking indeed. t:

Was just kidding, amigo. t:

I was just poking fun at the fact that while you believe there was more wrong than right, I just think they couldn't have gotten it any worse.

Doesn't mean a few (at least 4%, I mean, that's the statiscal margin or error, right t: ) parts weren't done somewhat right. It's just that those were such no-brainers imo that I really don't see why the producers/writers/directors should be commended/defended for not screwing up those. t:

Oh well.

 

[MaJiN]

And with that, I implore people with a vision of a faithful x-franchise to look at this thread at X-World:

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232429

But, if you accept the franchise we're getting now, please, dont come to the thread to start trouble. The thread is for people who want faithful X movies.

I don't know what is being discussed here currently but in regards to what this person said all the way toward the beginning, Thank you!
I must be dreaming, I remember anytime I gave a reasonable gripe about any of the x-men movies, I'd get lit up with replies as if I was crazy. It was like people just excepted whatever they got. Many even had the coconuts to say that it was better than the comics. This is the first time I've been in the x-men forums since 02. I figured everyone in here would be worshiping x3.

Among the complaints here, Mine is a golden oldie. I've been saying it from the very beginning in 99. The x-men film franchise was butchered. I could go on for days about what I didn't like, from the x-men wearing black Batman costumes (sarcasm) to Juggernaut as a midget football player (more sarcasm).
My biggest disappointment is how they did Wolverine. I never read the comic as religiously as many but I have read a great deal during the 90s to know enough about the character and realize what was missing. I have no complaint about Hugh Jackman. I thought he was a alright actor. but his character was flat. Even though he looked so much like the character to the point where it gave me chills, whenever I saw Jackman, I just saw "a man with some claws". And there's a lot more to Wolverine's character than that.

Honestly I think it's sort of like the Spiderman forums. By the time the movies where being made, the main knowledge that a lot of people had on Spiderman and the X-men where what they learned from the cartoons. And the animated versions weren't always 100 % accurate but a toned down version for Saturday morning cartoons.

Another thing is I don't blame Brian Singer for any of this. FOX screwed him over with both movies that he directed. If I remember correctly, the first movie wasn't what Singer had intended to make. FOX had cut the production in half while Singer was still doing resarch. I even remember Beast and the Blob were originally supposed to be in the movie.
Even though the damage had been done with the first movie, X-2 didn't turn out the way Singer intended it to be. Remember the original Sentinel concept idea for the movie? Singer was pushing for Sentinels to be in the movie but the higher ups @ FOX figured it was too expensive.

Singer says he left the x-men 3 project because he saw a golden opportunity to direct .. For some reason I think there's a bit more than that. Otherwise that movie would've been made years ago.

If we do see a redo I say give it to Warner Bros & Christopher Nolan direct.

 

[X-Maniac]

I agree with the "haters" a lot more than one might think from someone who so adamantly loves this film.

I share many of the same complaints that the "haters" of this film has. The only difference is, those complaints effected my overall enjoyment less so than it did that of the "haters".

My biggest beef with the "haters" is the constant nitpicking, with arguements such as plastic needles vs. metal needles, bridge lengths, people dying or not when the bridge was dropped, Wolverine's velocity and angle when being thrown through the ceiling by Juggernaut, and all of those other silly nitpicks that have no bearing what so ever on the plot or quality of the film. This is a science fiction, fantasy movie, based on a comic book, a movie in which real world science and logic is not to be applied. Sure, it might try to be GROUNDED in our world, but it's still a piece of fiction, it's still fantasy, science fiction, and based on a comic book. Thinking about it in terms of real world physics and science is not the way to approach these films, and I merely see it as mindless bashing to try to prove a point, and try to further justify the negative viewpoint as "right" and the positive viewpoint as "wrong".

The legitamate gripes, however, that deal with the faithfullness to the source material, the overall quality of the film making; i.e. plot development and depth, as well as a few instances of script quality, I agree with a good 80 - 90% of the complaints on here. They just didn't have the same negative impact on me overall as it did on others. But those complaints still exist. And if you go back through, this thread I believe, as well as some others, you'll see that I've had my fair share of arguements and debates with even X-Maniac and The Guard, arguing where things didn't work.

Where my "hatred" of the nitpick camp lies against the "haters", I also feel the same feelings towards X-Maniac and The Guard sometimes, who I feel are too naiive to understand when things simply weren't done well.

well, this was uncalled for, incorrect and bound to elicit a response! I’ve never ever been naive about anything! I fully understand people’s disappointments about the movie - some I feel are more valid than others. With all movies, there are conveniences, plotholes, logic leaps, room for varied interpretations and the need for viewers to join some of the dots themselves.

I was fully aware that two new directors (Vaughan, then Ratner), a new team of writers, actor’s scheduling conflicts and anxieties over the absence of Singer would impact the movie, or at least people’s enjoyment of it. So I would argue that people like me and Guard are the LEAST naive of all, since we fully understood the moviemaking circumstances (even if we didn’t like them) and the changes it would bring, and were able to interpet elements of the movie that others cannot do or refuse to do. Fox’s position is loud and clear, especially with the comments of Ralph Winter. To want change and improvement is not wrong and I was among those who contacted Fox (and have also requested an extended edition through an official channel); but for who is being naive, look to those who want a total remake of X3, for those who wish X3 to be written as a character dream,.to those who want a reboot of the franchise right now, to those who want an overcrowded sequel with all previous characters (living, dead and cured) PLUSs some new ones (!!!), and to those who want Fox to simply relinquish the rights it holds in perpetuity.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

well, this was uncalled for, incorrect and bound to elicit a response! I’ve never ever been naive about anything! I fully understand people’s disappointments about the movie - some I feel are more valid than others. With all movies, there are conveniences, plotholes, logic leaps, room for varied interpretations and the need for viewers to join some of the dots themselves.

I was fully aware that two new directors (Vaughan, then Ratner), a new team of writers, actor’s scheduling conflicts and anxieties over the absence of Singer would impact the movie, or at least people’s enjoyment of it. So I would argue that people like me and Guard are the LEAST naive of all, since we fully understood the moviemaking circumstances (even if we didn’t like them) and the changes it would bring, and were able to interpet elements of the movie that others cannot do or refuse to do. Fox’s position is loud and clear, especially with the comments of Ralph Winter. To want change and improvement is not wrong and I was among those who contacted Fox (and have also requested an extended edition through an official channel); but for who is being naive, look to those who want a total remake of X3, for those who wish X3 to be written as a character dream,.to those who want a reboot of the franchise right now, to those who want an overcrowded sequel with all previous characters (living, dead and cured) PLUSs some new ones (!!!), and to those who want Fox to simply relinquish the rights it holds in perpetuity.

Maniac, I think there's an insane amount of "naiive" people on BOTH sides, and that's why I had to take a break for a bit.

As some of my last posts before my break indicated, my frustrations had reached a boiling point.

For the most part, I do believe that you and The Guard are rather level headed, but I have had debates with BOTH of you guys (The Guard, particularly) that have been almost as frustrating as anything I've argued with the "anti-X3" camp. It just so happens that our viewpoints run parallel a lot more often than not, so I don't find myself butting heads with the 2 of you as much, but I have found a certain degree of frustration with members of both sides of the line.

The instances I am talking about, are more along the lines of my debate with The Guard, who refused to acknowledge my complaints with certain character arcs not being developed enough. I.E.: When I would mention that Storm needed more depth to her "There's nothing wrong with us" stance. That's a big character attribute to introduce. That's telling us how this character, a MAIN character, is going to play into your MAIN plotline. Yet, it had absolutley no depth or follow up. The same thing goes for lines like "There's something you're not telling us" (put in just for the "shock" value, and again, never followed up on), and many other areas in which something was introduced, but never followed up on by this filmmaking team. The Guard continued to insist that there was nothing wrong with those moments, when obviously, there are!

And not to start a flame war, but while my comments may have been "uncalled for", you're not exactly innocent of "uncalled for" comments either. Perhaps you'll recall the ones you've made about me when I posted my original view of the film? Or, despite the fact that he's hardly innocent either, some of the comments you've made about LastSunrise?

Compared to that, I don't think what I said is all that bad, because I just feel that you and The Guard just don't get it sometimes, but I don't think I said anything neccesarily harsh. It doesn't mean I think you're a dick, it doesn't mean I don't like you, it just means that I can become frustrated with your arguements at times as well. I'm sure you and many others have felt the same way about me as well.

 

[gambitfire]

Nell said dick!!

J/k

 

[LadyVader]

The dark side IS stronger.

 

[X-Maniac]

Maniac, I think there's an insane amount of "naiive" people on BOTH sides, and that's why I had to take a break for a bit.

As some of my last posts before my break indicated, my frustrations had reached a boiling point.

For the most part, I do believe that you and The Guard are rather level headed, but I have had debates with BOTH of you guys (The Guard, particularly) that have been almost as frustrating as anything I've argued with the "anti-X3" camp. It just so happens that our viewpoints run parallel a lot more often than not, so I don't find myself butting heads with the 2 of you as much, but I have found a certain degree of frustration with members of both sides of the line.

The instances I am talking about, are more along the lines of my debate with The Guard, who refused to acknowledge my complaints with certain character arcs not being developed enough. I.E.: When I would mention that Storm needed more depth to her "There's nothing wrong with us" stance. That's a big character attribute to introduce. That's telling us how this character, a MAIN character, is going to play into your MAIN plotline. Yet, it had absolutley no depth or follow up. The same thing goes for lines like "There's something you're not telling us" (put in just for the "shock" value, and again, never followed up on), and many other areas in which something was introduced, but never followed up on by this filmmaking team. The Guard continued to insist that there was nothing wrong with those moments, when obviously, there are!

And not to start a flame war, but while my comments may have been "uncalled for", you're not exactly innocent of "uncalled for" comments either. Perhaps you'll recall the ones you've made about me when I posted my original view of the film? Or, despite the fact that he's hardly innocent either, some of the comments you've made about LastSunrise?

Compared to that, I don't think what I said is all that bad, because I just feel that you and The Guard just don't get it sometimes, but I don't think I said anything neccesarily harsh. It doesn't mean I think you're a dick, it doesn't mean I don't like you, it just means that I can become frustrated with your arguements at times as well. I'm sure you and many others have felt the same way about me as well.

Yes, we all reach boiling point at times. And friends tell me i spend too much time on here! We've all fallen out with each other at times, and had long debates over issues. I cannot speak for The Guard, what he feels is up to him to explain.

I think if people generally enjoy things, they are more willing to interpet and analyse more deeply and thoughtfully than if they hate things. I've seen the most extreme interpretations and extrapolations over at the SR forum, usually by those who love the movie and have watched it as many as 30 times. They will say 'that part where he did this, or said that, was supposed to be telling us this or that'. Sometimes, what is suggested is a wild grabbing of straws.

As for parts of the movie you mentioned... I agree that Storm's stance could have been explored more, especially the issue of her actually having the same stance (ie deeply offended) as Magneto over the cure, but not having his methods or his need for supremacy. I agree also that Xavier's 'something you are not telling us' was a little disconnected, though it must be that he sensed Jean's presence. But whether these things SHOULD have been explored more is open to debate. After all, we never really got Xavier's view on the cure, or Wolverine's, so we got more from Storm than from them! And we only got little snippets of conversation in the earlier movies - such as Storm and Nightcrawler's exchange on the jet. These movies don't have much room for philosophical debates - instead we get little snapshots of people's beliefs. The 'something you're not telling us' was obviousl there to create suspense, as was Jean's 'i keep feeling something terrible's going to happen' in X2 - we're never sure if she is sensing the mansion raid, the Dark Cerebro incident, the dam break, her own death...

A piece of dialogue I don't much like is 'how can democracy survive when one man can move cities with his mind' by the President. On a literal level, Magneto has never moved an entire city and his powers are not directly created by his mind. Beast's response indicates that he believes the President capable of moving cities with his mind, obviously metaphorically. Was this conversation supposed to take place after Magneto had moved the bridge in the middle part of the original script? The dialogue obviously means that both men (Magneto and the President) wield great power that can have a massive impact and that democracy can suffer when such power is wielded irresponsibly. But some people have remarked to me that this dialogue seemed a bit 'random' because of the metaphor used about moving cities with the power of the mind.

It's rather like Xavier's portentous voiceover from the trailer, which sounds dramatic but is more for effect than anything. It's a good voiceover, very epic-sounding...though its drama is not really shown in the movie. We never see/hear Xavier fearing Phoenix could end all existence, or fearing the cure will create a terrible world war of mutant supremacists vs humans. Some more dialogue might have helped - we DID hear Xavier say 'you have no idea of what she is capable', Beast say 'His powers have limits, hers do not' and Wolverine's 'You might not come home' but these are the only foreboding statements about the potential outcome. I'd have liked something said about the world, or all existence, being under threat.
Something like 'If we don't stop Magneto, we'll have world war on our hands; and if we don't stop Jean, there might not be a world left.'
The scenes on the DVD with Phoenix nuking SF are more along the right lines of a global threat - they may have been too expensive to create, but what a shame those weren't in some slow-motion premonition dream sequence either by Xavier or by Jean at the encampment, something hinting at what might happen if she were not contained...

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

These movies don't have much room for philosophical debates - instead we get little snapshots of people's beliefs.

Eh eh.

Yeah, well, that's the thing. Characters throwing random fits just end up being really annoying.

Less can be more. Still, it just doesn't quite work out when characters are a) cardboad cut-outs and b) inconsistent in their non-existent depth.

Refer to movieverse Storm. You'd think she has a personality disorder or something. t:

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

@LastSunrise:

Oh, just in case you don't read this in the Cyke thread.

Love the new sig. t:

 

[Theweepeople]

I was wondering if you were a fan of the 90's cartoon of X-Men and if so what did you think of it? Would you ever think about writing a TV series about the X-Men?

*As I mentioned above, I was a huge fan of the 90s animated series. I would definitely consider working on an X-Men TV series, though it would be hard after writing one of the films to work in a smaller medium (smaller budget, smaller scope per episode). We got a little spoiled, being able to dream up the most insane sequences and actually see them materialize in front of our eyes. Also, these actors are so identified with their characters, it would be tough to work with a whole new cast.

If you were such a big fan of the 90's cartoon then why did Wolverine takeover Cyclop's role in the Phoenix storyline. Oh yeah I forgot. You're a hack writer.

My point is, writing of your own mind i find difficult but when your writing for x-men do you feel that it is easyer to write for these characters because you grew up with them and know what they would and wouldnt say and how they behave?

*It’s easier and harder. Easier because you feel fluent in their voices. But harder because you’re somewhat constrained by what you know. In other words, there are limitations and definitions to the characters, so you have to remain loyal to the comics and the previous films. Also, it’s tough when you grew up loving and worshipping these characters, to suddenly be putting words in their mouths. It was a little daunting at first.

What loyalty to the comic and previous films are you referring to Simon?

Having Wolverine take over Cyclops role was loyal?

Turning Xavier into a manipulative bastard was loyal?

Turning Magneto into a strategic moron was loyal?

Having Rogue take the cure so she could have sex with Bobby was loyal?

Okay, so you haven't seen the 3 1/2 - 4 hour cut sent to the post production house. You should ask for a DA88 copy - I understand there's a few floating around.

*I have no idea what you’re talking about. Honestly. I will say that the “movie” review posted online was ridiculous. There was so much wrong about it, we didn’t even bother to reply. Anything that was even remotely accurate could have come from the leaked photos or the early “script” review.

That's interesting Simon. Fox immediately replied to this script by filing a lawsuit against Ain't it cool news to have it removed. Fortunately, I had a friend who read the script and told me the following things in January of 2006 that I thought were ridiculous when I heard them:

The movie is around 1 hour and 40 min.

Xavier, Scott, and Jean Grey die.

Rogue and Magneto get cured.

Wolverine becomes the leader of the X-Men.

2. Maybe it's kind of spoilerish, but does the word Shi'ar appear in the script any time??

*Spoilerish. Sorry.

So much for your "I won't answer with spoiler to questions that pertain to ideas that are outside the realm of possibility for this film" comment.

Q. Matrix Reloadad + Revolutions, imo, raised the bar when it comes to flying FX, especially the Smith vs. Neo flying fight in Revolutions. Can we expect to see similar mind blowing flying sequences in X3?? Will the flying shots be all wirework or will there be some CG shots also?

*I’m not sure about the wirework vs CG ratio for the flying. I know Bruno and the guys are trying to come up with something fresh on this front.

Having scenes of Beast flying around like the killer rabbit in Monty Python is fresh?

In your opinion, did you think you wrote a movie that is not only SMART but exhilarating? Most days, those 2 don't come together (although Mr. and Mrs. Smith had a bit both - haha, I'm looking at my copy right now) so did you try and keep in mind the intelligence of the X-Universe?

*Thank you for the kind words on Smiths. We definitely tried with that film, just as we tried with X3. We all have a lot of respect for the intelligence and excitement of the first two movies, and we worked really hard to deliver on both fronts. When you’re working with the caliber of actors we have in X3, they push you to be as smart as possible.

Ian was happy with how unstrategic his character turned out to be in X3 as opposed to X1 and X2?

Patrick was happy with how unscrupulous and uncharismatic his character turned out to be in X3 as opposed to the previous films?

Halle was happy with how *****y and coldhearted her character turned out to be in X3 as opposed to the previous films?

Anna Paquin was happy with how cowardly her character turned out to be in X3 as opposed to the previous films?

Famke was happy that her character had virtually no personality and a only a few lines?

If you were mandated by Fox to contrive a reason for Wolverine's mask could you think of an intelligent way to do it? Do you think it would violate the parameters established for this movie universe?

*It would be tough. The movie universe is very realistic.

That is a very interesting response considering that X3 turned out to be the most unrealistic X-Men film that violated too many parameters established in that universe.

I'm a huge fan of Famke Janssen, so here goes, How was she to work with in the set? How would you rate Ms. Famke Janssen's performance as Jean Grey/Phoenix in the upcoming x-men trilogy? Was she just satisfactory or beyond expectation as an actress portraying one of the famous marvel comic characters?

*She was a true pleasure to work with. She’s an extremely talented and intelligent human being, who also happens to be an incredibly decent person. I think her performance in X3 may be the single strongest performance of her career, and possibly one of the strongest of the entire franchise. She surpassed our wildest expectations for the role. I think this particular character (Phoenix) is the hardest part in the three films, and she did an astonishing job of playing all the various colors – the schizophrenia, the violence, the darkness, the confusion, the emotion. I hope her performance gets recognized by critics, and I hope it yields more interesting, intricate roles for her in the future. She’s up to the task.

I need to drink some pepto-bismol to get rid of the nauseated feeling I have right now. Please, stop drinking the Kool-Aid Simon because it's making you completely delusional.


*What were your reactions after seeing those unauthorized pictures circulating all over the internet?

Always a little frustrated. Those pictures are: 1) not from the film itself, 2) not treated with the same lighting/processing as the film’s images; and 3) taken entirely out of context. It’s like somebody taking five random words out of our script and judging the entire screenplay based on those five words.

Translation: Why did I agree with Fox to write all these bad ideas into this script? I knew the fans would be pissed after the picture of Scott, Xavier, and Jean's gravestones were be released. Now this film is going to underperform in May and my name will be associated with this abomination of an X-Men film forever.

hi simon will we see a claustrophobic storm in x3? (damn i hoped i spelled that right)

*Spoiler. Sorry.

So much for your "I won't answer with spoiler to questions that pertain to ideas that are outside the realm of possibility for this film" comment.


Simon: I love the secrecy/mystery behind X3. We have seen some promising things so far based on the trailer. However, I fear that Fox's Marketing dept. will ruin the surprise with the next trailer by showing us practically the best parts of the movie. Can you, Zak and Brett influence the Fox's Marketing dept. not to make this grave mistake?

*I don’t think that will be a problem. I’ve seen a rough version of the next trailer. While it does contain more footage from the film, there are still plenty of surprises left.


This is probably the 10th time you've said this Simon!! Most of the things in X3 that were meant to surpise me didn't. The few things that did suprise me were unpredictably bad.

In X1 Rogue was introduced, and after learning of her powers, we saw her initially frightened and extremely wary of her powers. In X2 we could see she was still struggling with her powers, but she had gained some confidence in her ability to use them, and was able to use them without permanently injuring someone. Is Rogue even more comfortable/confident about her powers in X3?

*Good question. Unfortunately, I can’t get too specific with my answer. I would say that Rogue’s confidence is actually tested in this film, and perhaps ultimately strengthened.

What?!!!! Strengthened by what.

Were the scenes between her and Storm ridiculing those her take the cure an example of her being strengthened?

Was the scene of Rogue complaining about knowing what guys think to Bobby an example of her being strengthened?

Finally, how was her final decision to take the cure an example of her being strengthened. The school was created for mutants not people who were once mutants. She probably would have been asked to leave the school. Storm made it clear how she felt about Rogue's kind. Where would Rogue go. In the end Rogue would have been weakened by not being able to see Bobby again and ultimately regret her decision.

A lot of people have been concerned about the length of X3, and based on some answers you and Zak have given, I feel confident that you guys won't let us down. I did have a couple of related questions though. Assuming that if X3 does end up being shorter than X2, X3 would probably still end up being closer to X2 in length, rather than being closer to X1 in length.. am I most likely right?

*Honestly, I have no idea. We’re not cutting the film to make a certain time. And there is still plenty of work left to do in post. So we won’t have a sense of the running time for a while. I would guess – only GUESS – that the final length will be closer to X2.

I don't believe you Simon. You had experience with writing scripts for movies before X3. If you're estimation was only off by a few minutes then I wouldn't think that you lied. However, you're prediction was off by 30 minutes. Futhermore, you previously revealed your feelings about films longer than 2 hours by stating that Batman Begins(Film with similar run time to X2) was 30 minutes to long.

I totally understand why it would be necessary to shorten some scenes to make the movie flow better, and why taking out some scenes and such, would enhance the overall feel of the movie. However, if some hard decisions have to be made, and you do end up with a lot of good material that gets cut, do you think the producers(and whoever else helps make DVD decisions) will be sure to evaluate the cut material so that they make sure they include as much of it as possible for the hardcore X-fans?

*I’m sure if scenes get cut, they will be considered for the DVD. But so far, we’re not cutting any scenes wholescale.

What do you mean by this Simon? This is completely relative. What is your definition of a wholescale scene? I believe what you're trying to do is suggest that only a few scenes from this film could be cut. I also, know that it's not normal for DVD's to have 21 deleted scenes on them.

Did you interact much with Vinnie Jones? If so, what was your impression of him? Is he more intense and serious? Is he somewhat of a prankster? Or is he friendly but keeps to himself? He seems like an interesting guy. I was just curious how he was on set.

*He is an interesting guy. My interactions with him consisted of playing poker (getting beaten badly at Texas Hold Em), and working on some dialogue. He’s a really good guy, and a lot of fun on set. He’s also a good improviser, so he came up with a few of his lines. Luckily they were good lines. Even if they weren’t, I would have smiled and told him they were brilliant (he’s a very large man, even out of the costume).

Vinnie Jones is a great improviser? Why haven't I seen him as a guest on Who's Line is it Anyway?

I don't remember Vinne Jones having many lines in the film. I do remember that the lines spoken by him were silly. If you truely think those lines were brilliantly conceived then there is no hope for you to ever rise to a level greater than hack writer status Simon.


After recently going to thexverse.com website I noticed something. I used to have easy access to Simon's quotes since that started on January of 2006 by simply clicking on forums. Now the only way to see these quotes is to click on interviews and click on Simon Kinberg at the bottom of the page. After that I still have to do some more searching to find this information. I wonder if Simon asked the moderators of that website to make these quotes hard to find. Oh well. I've still got more quotes to analyze. Here is a link to these quotes so you won't have to go through the trouble that I went through to find them again.

http://thexverse.com/community/showthread.php?t=8&page=21

 

[Theweepeople]

double post

 

[La_She-Beast]

I was wondering if you were a fan of the 90's cartoon of X-Men and if so what did you think of it? Would you ever think about writing a TV series about the X-Men?

*As I mentioned above, I was a huge fan of the 90s animated series. I would definitely consider working on an X-Men TV series, though it would be hard after writing one of the films to work in a smaller medium (smaller budget, smaller scope per episode). We got a little spoiled, being able to dream up the most insane sequences and actually see them materialize in front of our eyes. Also, these actors are so identified with their characters, it would be tough to work with a whole new cast.

If you were such a big fan of the 90's cartoon then why did Wolverine takeover Cyclop's role in the Phoenix storyline. Oh yeah I forgot. You're a hack writer.

My point is, writing of your own mind i find difficult but when your writing for x-men do you feel that it is easyer to write for these characters because you grew up with them and know what they would and wouldnt say and how they behave?

*It’s easier and harder. Easier because you feel fluent in their voices. But harder because you’re somewhat constrained by what you know. In other words, there are limitations and definitions to the characters, so you have to remain loyal to the comics and the previous films. Also, it’s tough when you grew up loving and worshipping these characters, to suddenly be putting words in their mouths. It was a little daunting at first.

What loyalty to the comic and previous films are you referring to Simon?

Having Wolverine take over Cyclops role was loyal?

Turning Xavier into a manipulative bastard was loyal?

Turning Magneto into a strategic moron was loyal?

Having Rogue take the cure so she could have sex with Bobby was loyal?

Okay, so you haven't seen the 3 1/2 - 4 hour cut sent to the post production house. You should ask for a DA88 copy - I understand there's a few floating around.

*I have no idea what you’re talking about. Honestly. I will say that the “movie” review posted online was ridiculous. There was so much wrong about it, we didn’t even bother to reply. Anything that was even remotely accurate could have come from the leaked photos or the early “script” review.

That's interesting Simon. Fox immediately replied to this script by filing a lawsuit against Ain't it cool news to have it removed. Fortunately, I had a friend who read the script and told me the following things in January of 2006 that I thought were ridiculous when I heard them:

The movie is around 1 hour and 40 min.

Xavier, Scott, and Jean Grey die.

Rogue and Magneto get cured.

Wolverine becomes the leader of the X-Men.

2. Maybe it's kind of spoilerish, but does the word Shi'ar appear in the script any time??

*Spoilerish. Sorry.

So much for your "I won't answer with spoiler to questions that pertain to ideas that are outside the realm of possibility for this film" comment.

Q. Matrix Reloadad + Revolutions, imo, raised the bar when it comes to flying FX, especially the Smith vs. Neo flying fight in Revolutions. Can we expect to see similar mind blowing flying sequences in X3?? Will the flying shots be all wirework or will there be some CG shots also?

*I’m not sure about the wirework vs CG ratio for the flying. I know Bruno and the guys are trying to come up with something fresh on this front.

Having scenes of Beast flying around like the killer rabbit in Monty Python is fresh?

In your opinion, did you think you wrote a movie that is not only SMART but exhilarating? Most days, those 2 don't come together (although Mr. and Mrs. Smith had a bit both - haha, I'm looking at my copy right now) so did you try and keep in mind the intelligence of the X-Universe?

*Thank you for the kind words on Smiths. We definitely tried with that film, just as we tried with X3. We all have a lot of respect for the intelligence and excitement of the first two movies, and we worked really hard to deliver on both fronts. When you’re working with the caliber of actors we have in X3, they push you to be as smart as possible.

Ian was happy with how unstrategic his character turned out to be in X3 as opposed to X1 and X2?

Patrick was happy with how unscrupulous and uncharismatic his character turned out to be in X3 as opposed to the previous films?

Halle was happy with how *****y and coldhearted her character turned out to be in X3 as opposed to the previous films?

Anna Paquin was happy with how cowardly her character turned out to be in X3 as opposed to the previous films?

Famke was happy that her character had virtually no personality and a only a few lines?

If you were mandated by Fox to contrive a reason for Wolverine's mask could you think of an intelligent way to do it? Do you think it would violate the parameters established for this movie universe?

*It would be tough. The movie universe is very realistic.

That is a very interesting response considering that X3 turned out to be the most unrealistic X-Men film that violated too many parameters established in that universe.

I'm a huge fan of Famke Janssen, so here goes, How was she to work with in the set? How would you rate Ms. Famke Janssen's performance as Jean Grey/Phoenix in the upcoming x-men trilogy? Was she just satisfactory or beyond expectation as an actress portraying one of the famous marvel comic characters?

*She was a true pleasure to work with. She’s an extremely talented and intelligent human being, who also happens to be an incredibly decent person. I think her performance in X3 may be the single strongest performance of her career, and possibly one of the strongest of the entire franchise. She surpassed our wildest expectations for the role. I think this particular character (Phoenix) is the hardest part in the three films, and she did an astonishing job of playing all the various colors – the schizophrenia, the violence, the darkness, the confusion, the emotion. I hope her performance gets recognized by critics, and I hope it yields more interesting, intricate roles for her in the future. She’s up to the task.

I need to drink some pepto-bismol to get rid of the nauseated feeling I have right now. Please, stop drinking the Kool-Aid Simon because it's making you completely delusional.


*What were your reactions after seeing those unauthorized pictures circulating all over the internet?

Always a little frustrated. Those pictures are: 1) not from the film itself, 2) not treated with the same lighting/processing as the film’s images; and 3) taken entirely out of context. It’s like somebody taking five random words out of our script and judging the entire screenplay based on those five words.

Translation: Why did I agree with Fox to write all these bad ideas into this script? I knew the fans would be pissed after the picture of Scott, Xavier, and Jean's gravestones were be released. Now this film is going to underperform in May and my name will be associated with this abomination of an X-Men film forever.

hi simon will we see a claustrophobic storm in x3? (damn i hoped i spelled that right)

*Spoiler. Sorry.

So much for your "I won't answer with spoiler to questions that pertain to ideas that are outside the realm of possibility for this film" comment.


Simon: I love the secrecy/mystery behind X3. We have seen some promising things so far based on the trailer. However, I fear that Fox's Marketing dept. will ruin the surprise with the next trailer by showing us practically the best parts of the movie. Can you, Zak and Brett influence the Fox's Marketing dept. not to make this grave mistake?

*I don’t think that will be a problem. I’ve seen a rough version of the next trailer. While it does contain more footage from the film, there are still plenty of surprises left.


This is probably the 10th time you've said this Simon!! Most of the things in X3 that were meant to surpise me didn't. The few things that did suprise me were unpredictably bad.

In X1 Rogue was introduced, and after learning of her powers, we saw her initially frightened and extremely wary of her powers. In X2 we could see she was still struggling with her powers, but she had gained some confidence in her ability to use them, and was able to use them without permanently injuring someone. Is Rogue even more comfortable/confident about her powers in X3?

*Good question. Unfortunately, I can’t get too specific with my answer. I would say that Rogue’s confidence is actually tested in this film, and perhaps ultimately strengthened.

What?!!!! Strengthened by what.

Were the scenes between her and Storm ridiculing those her take the cure an example of her being strengthened?

Was the scene of Rogue complaining about knowing what guys think to Bobby an example of her being strengthened?

Finally, how was her final decision to take the cure an example of her being strengthened. The school was created for mutants not people who were once mutants. She probably would have been asked to leave the school. Storm made it clear how she felt about Rogue's kind. Where would Rogue go. In the end Rogue would have been weakened by not being able to see Bobby again and ultimately regret her decision.

A lot of people have been concerned about the length of X3, and based on some answers you and Zak have given, I feel confident that you guys won't let us down. I did have a couple of related questions though. Assuming that if X3 does end up being shorter than X2, X3 would probably still end up being closer to X2 in length, rather than being closer to X1 in length.. am I most likely right?

*Honestly, I have no idea. We’re not cutting the film to make a certain time. And there is still plenty of work left to do in post. So we won’t have a sense of the running time for a while. I would guess – only GUESS – that the final length will be closer to X2.

I don't believe you Simon. You had experience with writing scripts for movies before X3. If you're estimation was only off by a few minutes then I wouldn't think that you lied. However, you're prediction was off by 30 minutes. Futhermore, you previously revealed your feelings about films longer than 2 hours by stating that Batman Begins(Film with similar run time to X2) was 30 minutes to long.

I totally understand why it would be necessary to shorten some scenes to make the movie flow better, and why taking out some scenes and such, would enhance the overall feel of the movie. However, if some hard decisions have to be made, and you do end up with a lot of good material that gets cut, do you think the producers(and whoever else helps make DVD decisions) will be sure to evaluate the cut material so that they make sure they include as much of it as possible for the hardcore X-fans?

*I’m sure if scenes get cut, they will be considered for the DVD. But so far, we’re not cutting any scenes wholescale.

What do you mean by this Simon? This is completely relative. What is your definition of a wholescale scene? I believe what you're trying to do is suggest that only a few scenes from this film could be cut. I also, know that it's not normal for DVD's to have 21 deleted scenes on them.

Did you interact much with Vinnie Jones? If so, what was your impression of him? Is he more intense and serious? Is he somewhat of a prankster? Or is he friendly but keeps to himself? He seems like an interesting guy. I was just curious how he was on set.

*He is an interesting guy. My interactions with him consisted of playing poker (getting beaten badly at Texas Hold Em), and working on some dialogue. He’s a really good guy, and a lot of fun on set. He’s also a good improviser, so he came up with a few of his lines. Luckily they were good lines. Even if they weren’t, I would have smiled and told him they were brilliant (he’s a very large man, even out of the costume).

Vinnie Jones is a great improviser? Why haven't I seen him as a guest on Who's Line is it Anyway?

I don't remember Vinne Jones having many lines in the film. I do remember that the lines spoken by him were silly. If you truely think those lines were brilliantly conceived then there is no hope for you to ever rise to a level greater than hack writer status Simon.


After recently going to thexverse.com website I noticed something. I used to have easy access to Simon's quotes since that started on January of 2006 by simply clicking on forums. Now the only way to see these quotes is to click on interviews and click on Simon Kinberg at the bottom of the page. After that I still have to do some more searching to find this information. I wonder if Simon asked the moderators of that website to make these quotes hard to find. Oh well. I've still got more quotes to analyze. Here is a link to these quotes so you won't have to go through the trouble that I went through to find them again.

http://thexverse.com/community/showthread.php?t=8&page=21

LOL

But, actually, imo Beast's wirework jumping mumbo jumbo wasn't that terrible. Not revolutionary like Matrix, but convincing...

 

[X-Maniac]

LOL

But, actually, imo Beast's wirework jumping mumbo jumbo wasn't that terrible. Not revolutionary like Matrix, but convincing...

I thought Beast's wirework was fine except the part where he pounces horizontally and appears to fly off a little unconvincingly. I also was not 100 per cent sure of the initial fight scene where all the fliers and leapers launch themselves on to Alcatraz.

As for Simon's replies, on the one hand some replies do now look foolish; on the other hand he's bound to defend/justify his own work especially when it's a finished product that cannot be altered. I have a suspicion that many major decisions were made by the Fox suits - any true X-Men fan would not kill Cyclops or cure Rogue; those things had to be mandated by a higher power.

One little thing: I believe the name Shi'ar was going to appear somewhere, like on a Danger Room control panel or something...just a nod...obviously it didn't happen. (Wasn't there supposed to be a nod to Stark Enterprises (Tony Stark = Iron Man) in the X2 plastic prison somewhere?)

I saw LXG on TV last night. It's a guilty pleasure of mine (with some terrible moments in it). A Fox fiasco. The 'false ending' - Quatermain's funeral, then the witch doctor seeming to bring him back to life before the screen cuts... is in some ways similar to X3's various false endings. Had the Phat battle scene been put into X3, it would also have resembled LXG's inflated monsters fighting. X3 is miles better than LXG but I will admit X3 did take a couple of steps in LXG's direction!

 

[Theweepeople]

I actually enjoyed LXG better than X3 since my expectations for that movie were low and I had never read the comics so I have no idea how much that film deviated from the source material.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Yes, we all reach boiling point at times. And friends tell me i spend too much time on here! We've all fallen out with each other at times, and had long debates over issues. I cannot speak for The Guard, what he feels is up to him to explain.

I think if people generally enjoy things, they are more willing to interpet and analyse more deeply and thoughtfully than if they hate things. I've seen the most extreme interpretations and extrapolations over at the SR forum, usually by those who love the movie and have watched it as many as 30 times. They will say 'that part where he did this, or said that, was supposed to be telling us this or that'. Sometimes, what is suggested is a wild grabbing of straws.
As for parts of the movie you mentioned... I agree that Storm's stance could have been explored more, especially the issue of her actually having the same stance (ie deeply offended) as Magneto over the cure, but not having his methods or his need for supremacy. I agree also that Xavier's 'something you are not telling us' was a little disconnected, though it must be that he sensed Jean's presence. But whether these things SHOULD have been explored more is open to debate. After all, we never really got Xavier's view on the cure, or Wolverine's, so we got more from Storm than from them! And we only got little snippets of conversation in the earlier movies - such as Storm and Nightcrawler's exchange on the jet. These movies don't have much room for philosophical debates - instead we get little snapshots of people's beliefs. The 'something you're not telling us' was obviousl there to create suspense, as was Jean's 'i keep feeling something terrible's going to happen' in X2 - we're never sure if she is sensing the mansion raid, the Dark Cerebro incident, the dam break, her own death...

A piece of dialogue I don't much like is 'how can democracy survive when one man can move cities with his mind' by the President. On a literal level, Magneto has never moved an entire city and his powers are not directly created by his mind. Beast's response indicates that he believes the President capable of moving cities with his mind, obviously metaphorically. Was this conversation supposed to take place after Magneto had moved the bridge in the middle part of the original script? The dialogue obviously means that both men (Magneto and the President) wield great power that can have a massive impact and that democracy can suffer when such power is wielded irresponsibly. But some people have remarked to me that this dialogue seemed a bit 'random' because of the metaphor used about moving cities with the power of the mind.

It's rather like Xavier's portentous voiceover from the trailer, which sounds dramatic but is more for effect than anything. It's a good voiceover, very epic-sounding...though its drama is not really shown in the movie. We never see/hear Xavier fearing Phoenix could end all existence, or fearing the cure will create a terrible world war of mutant supremacists vs humans. Some more dialogue might have helped - we DID hear Xavier say 'you have no idea of what she is capable', Beast say 'His powers have limits, hers do not' and Wolverine's 'You might not come home' but these are the only foreboding statements about the potential outcome. I'd have liked something said about the world, or all existence, being under threat.
Something like 'If we don't stop Magneto, we'll have world war on our hands; and if we don't stop Jean, there might not be a world left.'
The scenes on the DVD with Phoenix nuking SF are more along the right lines of a global threat - they may have been too expensive to create, but what a shame those weren't in some slow-motion premonition dream sequence either by Xavier or by Jean at the encampment, something hinting at what might happen if she were not contained...

I take it this is a swipe at me? If you gonna bad mouth me X-Maniac, do while i'm here and not behing my back.

 

[X-Maniac]

I actually enjoyed LXG better than X3 since my expectations for that movie were low and I had never read the comics so I have no idea how much that film deviated from the source material.

It deviated hugely. But that’s not why it’s bad. Even ignoring real-world history and having tanks before any were invented was okay to me (but not to a friend of mine). Things like the Nautilus setting sail for Venice (ie, going east from London) but being shown going into the sunset (ie west!) were some of examples of poor movie-making! Not to mention Mr Hyde roared underwater while saving the Nautilus!!!

 

[X-Maniac]

I take it this is a swipe at me? If you gonna bad mouth me X-Maniac, do while i'm here and not behing my back.

Not a swipe directly, but it includes you. I can scarcely believe the comment about 'not behind my back' as though i must check you are online and contact you personally when making any comment that might refer to you. Unbelievalbe. This is a written medium, not a face-to-face visual medium, so the idea of 'behind my back' is preposterous.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I actually enjoyed LXG better than X3 since my expectations for that movie were low and I had never read the comics so I have no idea how much that film deviated from the source material.

I actually totally agree with this, i watched LXG on T.V last night and i actually found some enjoyment in it as well as some good character development. I find little to no enjoyment from X3.

X3's effects are far better though, but its budget was also A LOT more.