If you Don't like the movie - POST HERE

[Goddessreicho]

Don't get me wrong, there is no such thing as equal weight. But why are some characters completely weightless?! And have been since day one?

That's a retorical question. We know why. I'm just saying...

 

[danoyse]

Wolverine´s best action scene from the entire trilogy was the school sequence in X2. Deathstrike was okay, but not so great...I prefer the school. When he jumped from the balcony and attacked the soldiers and then just said, "Let´s go", I could totally see comicverse Logan there.

I always remember the seeing that the first night, and the audience seemed a little shocked that he was actually killing those soldiers. Even a friend at work, who was a fan of the comics, mentioned being pretty surprised at how intense that sequence was.

I loved the cage match scene in X1 (and not just for the obvious reasons )...he looked downright feral by the end of that fight. He didn't seem like that same character in X3...which is why I'm glad the spinoff is going to be a prequel. I want to see more of that character.

 

[gambitfire]

lol i have friends that thought That Logan was still too pg.

 

[BMM]

The Power Of The Double Post!!!

It's the darn Hype server. It's always bumping me off.

Tee hee! I saw that double post.

But you can't hold up the Phoenix Saga or Dark Phoenix Saga and say look at what happened to Colossus, Storm, Nightcrawler, Kitty...

We all know that pre-Phoenix and Post Phoenix/Maddy Jean had very little if any development outside of the occasional Phoenix flash for twenty years. Heck, I have the majority of Jim Lee's run, and very little Jean growth outside of being the winy wife who superheroed. The nineties were not her time.

I'm inclined to agree with a lot of this. I was just pointing out that regardless of the development (or lack thereof) of the designated "main characters" of a given issue, that unfortunately a lot of characters get pushed to the side.

All I'm trying to say is that the movies had the opportunities to break that habit and present the X-men as they should have been. A team. Somehow that got lost in the mix. No one fought for that, no one in production could relate to that. What? Again, Singer was the man for the job. I don't trust him with this. I don't trust Fox, hell I don't trust Marvel. But that's a different issue.

I understand. Hopefully, in the future, someone will break this cycle.

Wow BMM, I will be coming over to borrow your comics collection soon...

If I could post them all, I would.

I agree. I think that if Cyclops had been the main character from X1 on, then we would have all the Wolverine fans up in arms about his lack of screentime. We'd be having the same argument, just with the tables turned.

I agree. I think having such a large pool of diverse characters is what makes the X-Men so great when compared to the likes of Batman and Superman... but I think it's also the franchise's greatest weakness, because not every character is bound to get the screentime they deserve or the portrayal they deserve... and with 40+ years of material to draw from, that can be very disappointing.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

I always remember the seeing that the first night, and the audience seemed a little shocked that he was actually killing those soldiers. Even a friend at work, who was a fan of the comics, mentioned being pretty surprised at how intense that sequence was.

I loved the cage match scene in X1 (and not just for the obvious reasons )...he looked downright feral by the end of that fight. He didn't seem like that same character in X3...which is why I'm glad the spinoff is going to be a prequel. I want to see more of that character.

The prequel is going to be nothing more than a watered down version for the kiddies. I truly don't see Fox sticking with the original concept of Weapon X, Sabretooth, Maverick, Silver Fox, and possibly Omega Red. I said it a million times and no one seems to listen, the only way for the Wolverine film to be done right is if it's Rated R and is allowed to really go deep into the character without consequences.

If anything I see the film going the same route as Ghost Rider. Ghost Rider had too many humor moments, corny lines, and not enough darkness to maintain the spirit of the character.

 

[Theweepeople]

If anything I see the film going the same route as Ghost Rider. Ghost Rider had too many humor moments, corny lines, and not enough darkness to maintain the spirit of the character.

Did you actually see GR? I thought it was one of the worst comic book movies I've seen in the last 10 years. The Hulk, Daredevil, Constantine, X3, and Blade 2 are comic book movies that disappointed me but, they were all considerably better. Catwoman is the only comic book movie made in recent years I thought was worse than GR.

 

[kg576094]

You know very well that it would be unrealistic and utterly inconsistent to see the astral plane, Shi'ar or intergalactic space battles in X3. Stop being ridiculous. It was enough of a leap to see the holographic Danger Room and the Sentinel head.

Furthermore the decision to focus on Magneto and the bridge was not made by Ratner but by Fox. Ratner did decide to drop the Washington battle, but the bridge scene was already in place as an FX high point.

Would I have liked the Washington battle? Possibly. Would I have had liked a different Phoenix with firebird effects and more development during the final scenes when she seems to stand around? Definitely. But creative desires aren't the only factor. Some of the Dark Phoenix saga is difficult to bring to the X-movies - consuming a sun, flying through galaxies, fighting on the moon, turning a tree into gold.... The movie just needed to be longer to give more breathing space and detail to the elements it contained.

I must say that I'm amazed that for someone who have no problem with the danger room scene or sentinel head you actually find the astral plane and any of the Phoenix effects like galaxy roaming/power display ridiculous when these were integral parts of telling the Dark Phoenix story.
You could leave out both the danger room and the sentinel head scene, and it wouldn't affect the plot of X3 at all.
Wasn't the danger room sequence even more ridiculous...why were the X-men fighting in the Days of the Future Past scenario...which X-men suddenly developed the power of foresight and accurately predicted that the Professor would die and they would be fighting Big Giant Robots in a catastrophic future?
The scene would have a greater meaning to us fans if they had shown us a full sentinel design instead of that lazy sentinel head and the X-men dodging missiles and explosions (no wonder they were so good at dogding Magneto's cars later on in the final battle..yeah, brilliant foresight)...oh in fact the whole movie felt short in detail and lazy because the filmmakers had settled for the lowest possible denominator.
If I were to do the danger room sequence I would have the X-men team up to fight their previous foes like Sabertooth, Toad and Yuriko and these would have made a much better cameo than both Multiple Man or Spike combined! The training would have made more sense since the last time they fought they were knocked down in one blow.

If I'm particularly over-analytical or nitpicky about biological details (I'm trained in medical science btw), Angel didn't even need to take the cure to be normal. All he did however need was a corrective amputative surgery to remove his mutant wings (something that young Angel already knew but he forgot to use some kind of anaestethics)...this throws into question the whole point of the movie & the cure. Last I remebered Angel had healing power but not to the extent of regenerating his damaged wings. However, if Angel did have such a powerful regenerative power then the writers had not only screwed up the Dark Phoenix saga but also the Archangel story! In fact the proper way to cure Angel was to peform first an amputative surgery to remove his wings and premed before injecting him with the cure. His wings wouldn't magically disappear just because he had been injected with the cure...it doesn't work like this biologically or genetically. On the other hand in our body exists an immunosurvelliance system that might even recognize his wings as something foreign with his corrected DNA and start attacking it immunologically...so Angel could possibly die after being injected with the Cure!

Similarly the scene of Beast with Leech was both biologically & genetically inaccurate. His blue skin and fur wouldn't magically disappear and reappear like the way it was depicted in the movie with Leech. Now imagine the scene with Angel instead, wouldn't his wings have shrinked into nothingless with Leech and magically re-grown back after leaving the room...lol how silly would that have looked on screen? Let me say these are not my main complaints with X3 but complaints that just poped out because I'm really grabbing-at-the-straws!

 

[danoyse]

The prequel is going to be nothing more than a watered down version for the kiddies. I truly don't see Fox sticking with the original concept of Weapon X, Sabretooth, Maverick, Silver Fox, and possibly Omega Red. I said it a million times and no one seems to listen, the only way for the Wolverine film to be done right is if it's Rated R and is allowed to really go deep into the character without consequences.

Again, with the kiddies.

You saw almost no blood during the mansion raid in X2, but it was an effectively violent scene. The Weapon X flashback sequences were gruesome. They made PG-13 work. I don't need the blood and carnage splattering on the camera lens for it to be a better movie. I've already seen how they can do it right with X1/X2.

We already know they're planning to bring Brian Cox back as Stryker, so it's going to be different from the comics...they'll be doing the Weapon X story from how Singer envisioned it, with Wolverine as a "volunteer." Different, sure. But I like the idea of Stryker as the villian as opposed to the wacko Professor in the original Weapon X story.

I loved that character in X2, and the scenes between him and Wolverine were terrific. I'm all for a movie that expands on that.

I think it's a good sign that Singer showed an interest in it. Zach Snyder mentioned that it was "cool" in a recent interview for 300. There have been a few leaked script reviews online, and they've been pretty positive so far. I'll take as a good sign.

But's not going to be R. No way, no how, and if you're going to dwell on it, then what's the point of you even trying to give it any sort of a chance? I stopped caring about MPAA ratings once I turned 17 and didn't have to sneak into those movies anymore.

 

[La_She-Beast]

Do you remember those press releases about Singer's idea for a back to back X3/X4? He talked about how he wanted Sigourney Weaver for Emma, the Hellfire Club...blah blah blah. Nothing in there about character expansions, origins, or less Wolverine. For all we know Wolverine could have pulled another, "ONLY I CAN STOP PHOENIX, SO HOLD THIS LINE!"

Could that article about it been true? I dunno, but the earlier reports about three graves, and a Cyke dying like a "fart in the wind" were true. Most of those things are about 60% right anyway.

Hahahat:

 

[X-Maniac]

I must say that I'm amazed that for someone who have no problem with the danger room scene or sentinel head you actually find the astral plane and any of the Phoenix effects like galaxy roaming/power display ridiculous when these were integral parts of telling the Dark Phoenix story.

I didn't say those elements were ridiculous, I asked you to stop being ridiculous for suggesting that they could appear in the toned-down, reality-grounded movieverse that Singer established. Jean's transformation aboard a space shuttle in a solar storm became a two-second stare at the Statue of Liberty - get the point?! We weren't gonna see Shi'ar and space adventures in the movies! A shame, but they weren't structured that way!

You could leave out both the danger room and the sentinel head scene, and it wouldn't affect the plot of X3 at all.
Wasn't the danger room sequence even more ridiculous...why were the X-men fighting in the Days of the Future Past scenario...which X-men suddenly developed the power of foresight and accurately predicted that the Professor would die and they would be fighting Big Giant Robots in a catastrophic future?
The scene would have a greater meaning to us fans if they had shown us a full sentinel design instead of that lazy sentinel head and the X-men dodging missiles and explosions (no wonder they were so good at dogding Magneto's cars later on in the final battle..yeah, brilliant foresight)...oh in fact the whole movie felt short in detail and lazy because the filmmakers had settled for the lowest possible denominator.

The DR scene was obviously there first and foremost to give the audience a reminder of the X-Men's various powers, and to give fans a 'nod' at the Days of Future Past scenario. The writers knew on Xverse that this storyline was a favourite, so they gave us a little 'nod' towards it. I think the DR scene was a good idea for reminding us of the X-Men's abilities and quickly showing us Colossus's and Kitty's powers without long explanations, and they've been trying to do the DR for two movies, but I agree it didn't work out in the best way on screen.

If I were to do the danger room sequence I would have the X-men team up to fight their previous foes like Sabertooth, Toad and Yuriko and these would have made a much better cameo than both Multiple Man or Spike combined! The training would have made more sense since the last time they fought they were knocked down in one blow.

Interesting. I can't say if it would have worked or not though.

If I'm particularly over-analytical or nitpicky about biological details (I'm trained in medical science btw), Angel didn't even need to take the cure to be normal. All he did however need was a corrective amputative surgery to remove his mutant wings (something that young Angel already knew but he forgot to use some kind of anaestethics)...this throws into question the whole point of the movie & the cure. Last I remebered Angel had healing power but not to the extent of regenerating his damaged wings. However, if Angel did have such a powerful regenerative power then the writers had not only screwed up the Dark Phoenix saga but also the Archangel story! In fact the proper way to cure Angel was to peform first an amputative surgery to remove his wings and premed before injecting him with the cure. His wings wouldn't magically disappear just because he had been injected with the cure...it doesn't work like this biologically or genetically. On the other hand in our body exists an immunosurvelliance system that might even recognize his wings as something foreign with his corrected DNA and start attacking it immunologically...so Angel could possibly die after being injected with the Cure!

Well, real-world science cannot be applied too strictly to the movie or comicbook worlds of the X-Men. For instance, what would happen if Rogue had her powers and touched Angel - would she grow wings? If she touched Beast, would she become blue and furry? If she touched Mystique would she get scales and orange hair? I'll bet that's what would be shown - she would absorb mutational appearances as well as powers.

For the purposes of this sci-fi world, I think the ideas of the cure were fine. If Angel or Beast or Nightcrawler or anyone else with physical mutations took the cure, it's fine to show them becoming a normal human. That's perfectly okay. Angel's wings would either shrink or fall off, Nightcrawler's tail would do the same!!!! Of course, in a real-world scenario this wouldn't happen. especially not immediately. Maybe wings or tails might 'atrophy' over time and become 'dead' and have to be removed, or as you suggest they would attacked as 'foreign' by the immune system if immunosuppressants were not prescribed. But this isn't a real-world scenario. You saw in X1 how Mystique's transformations work (when she is stabbed by Wolverine) -- we see clothes, shoes, hairstyles, claws, all appearing and changing at an incredible speed. You simply cannot apply too much real-world medical, biological or genetic science to these people.

Similarly the scene of Beast with Leech was both biologically & genetically inaccurate. His blue skin and fur wouldn't magically disappear and reappear like the way it was depicted in the movie with Leech. Now imagine the scene with Angel instead, wouldn't his wings have shrinked into nothingless with Leech and magically re-grown back after leaving the room...lol how silly would that have looked on screen? Let me say these are not my main complaints with X3 but complaints that just poped out because I'm really grabbing-at-the-straws!

Yes, you are grabbing at straws. But I think Angel's wings would have shrunk and regrown if he met Leech! For visual and story purposes, that would have to be what was done. They would probably begin to shrink -- or perhaps wither like a dying plant's leaves.

There is a book called Science of the X-Men in which two writers attempt to give some scientific background to the X-Men's powers - it's a challenge and a struggle and they often have to use the cop-out that a character has access to 'an unknown energy'. In a separate book, The Unauthorised X-Men by Len Wein, a compilation of new articles by several writers, one of the authors of Science of The X-Men contributes and talks regretfully of her previous book - she says it is, at the end of the day, impossible and wrong to try to scientifically explain the X-Men. The chapter begins with recalling an incident at a comicbook convention in which a group of fans had a total meltdown when a writer couldn't give a watertight explanation of how Nightcrawler's teleportation worked. I'd urge you not to fall into the same trap.

 

[X-Maniac]

I absolutely agree, and I'm not trying to suggest otherwise. And yes, we do need to see scenes of mutants enjoying themselves at the School, racing across ponds and playing basketball. It directly contributes to the atmosphere of the School and the logic as to why it’s been established in the first place; it’s a home and safe place for those who are otherwise hated and feared by the outside world. Those short scenes greatly contribute to the tone of Xavier’s dream and don’t detract from Jean, Ororo, or Scott… in fact, I wish Jean, Ororo, and Scott had received similar scenes contributing to their characters.

Well, the scene of mutants racing over ponds or playing basketball might have been fine in showing a school as a haven, but I'm glad you agree we didn't really find out why Jean, Scott and Ororo were there. We just get the idea that most students are orphans or runaways, and that these three were among the first.

The first movie is flawed in that regard, and also especially in Wolverine's introduction to the team, in which he snickers and mocks their codenames when he himself has a nickname (not to mention that Rogue already had one).

The scene should have been (incorporating parts of the actual dialogue, recalled from memory):

Wolverine: 'Let me get this right - Storm...Cyclops...What do they call you, Wheels?
Cyclops: 'All this, from a man who calls himself Wolverine.' (Wolverine scowls)
Xavier: 'Codenames are a vital part of what we do, Logan. The world hates people like us, we cannot risk all our identities being known.'
Wolverine to Cyclops: 'So why are you here?'
Cyclops: 'The Professor found me. I had no family, I was in an orphanage. My powers almost destroyed it. This has become my family.'
Storm: 'The Professor found me too. In the African village where i grew up, my powers were seen as a gift, i was worshipped for what i could do.'
Wolverine: 'And you chose to come here, to a world where they hate you?'
Storm: 'Yes, the Professor persuaded me. We have work to do Logan, to fight the hate and earn the trust of these people. It's part of what we do.'
Wolverine; 'What IS this place? (cut to scenes as shown in movie of Wolverine being shown round, but include Storm watering a garden in her hothouse)

Again, I agree. The movies aren't perfect... I think it sucks that Deathstryke dies in the manner she does because it makes it difficult (that’s being generous) to continue her arc. Sure, X2 leaves her entire past with Wolverine open, including her misguided need to exact revenge upon Wolverine… but it just doesn’t work as well knowing that she dies. You’re going to receive little sympathy from me regarding Sabretooth though. Not only is he introduced as the dumb lackey that he was in Uncanny X-Men, but his entire history/rivalry with Wolverine has been left completely open… and it’s being worked on as we speak… and Wolverine fans seem pretty happy about it.

The dialogue i quickly created would easily, quickly and simply solve the problem of Wolverine's past with Sabretooth and Deathstrike in a flash. The creators of the movies needed more knowledge, experience and creativity in bringing the comicbook world to the screen. The lack of knowledge becomes obvious in the movies.

Regardless, you’re not going to find me subscribing to the notion that because every X-Man doesn’t receive equally weighted treatment, that the films are bad. I find that sentiment pretty much laughable. It only takes any reasonable person to read a few X-Men comic books to realize that although the X-Men are a team, only a handful ever receive the focus of a given issue. If anyone can prove to me that the books fully do otherwise, than I’ll gladly retract my statement. Until then, I don’t expect any filmmaker to do any differently than what the source material has been doing since 1963.

For instance, despite being members of the team, Colossus, Nightcrawler, and Storm are seemingly background characters compared to the likes of Cyclops and Jean Grey in these issues…

Likewise, Madelyne Pryor, Rogue and Wolverine are the focus of these issues, but I’m pretty sure the X-Men also consist of Dazzle, Havok, Longshot, Psylocke, etc.

Just about every X-Man aside from Gambit and Storm are background (if not non-existent) characters in these issues… I can hear Cyclops fans jeering but Gambit fans cheering...

…Jubilee, Psylocke, and Wolverine… what about the rest of the team?

…Iceman and who else?…

You get my point. Don't get me wrong. I don't think the first X-Men films are perfect... because they're not. There's plenty of room for improvement... and hopefully, there will be better films in the future... but for now, I hold X-Men and X2 as the bare minimum.

A deeply flawed argument. Comicbooks have the luxury of being able to focus on one or a few characters in one or several issues, or even in mini-series. The movies do not have that luxury. Therefore, they should not create an imbalance as there isn't much chance to correct it or alter the balance.

The first movie needed that dialogue i created to give some background to the X-Men themselves.

The second movie also needed additional dialogue to give depth to Deathstrike and Sabretooth's connection to Wolverine, and some better Storm dialogue than the emo exchange with Nightcrawler. We also needed more tension when the X-Men have to join Magneto; and less of the X-Men's bigotry towards Nightcrawler, which rather defeated their policy of acceptance (both Cyclops and Wolverine were a little hostile towards him, they behaved almost like the humans whose prejudice they hate). Nightcrawler should have been a joyous example of self-acceptance who won them over; instead he highlighted the X-Men's terrible inadequacies and insecurities and made them look like oddballs. He should have lifted their spirits, given them hope, not aroused their suspicions and triggered hostility.

The X-movies reminded me of depictions of gay characters in movies - they used to be almost always depressed/suicidal, dying of Aids, or some sort of weird reclusive loner. The word 'gay' seemed a total misnomer for such tragic characters. Only when Queer as Folk came along did people see the idea of the happy homo, that it is possible to be gay and relatively balanced, even celebratory.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Again, with the kiddies.

You saw almost no blood during the mansion raid in X2, but it was an effectively violent scene. The Weapon X flashback sequences were gruesome. They made PG-13 work. I don't need the blood and carnage splattering on the camera lens for it to be a better movie. I've already seen how they can do it right with X1/X2.

We already know they're planning to bring Brian Cox back as Stryker, so it's going to be different from the comics...they'll be doing the Weapon X story from how Singer envisioned it, with Wolverine as a "volunteer." Different, sure. But I like the idea of Stryker as the villian as opposed to the wacko Professor in the original Weapon X story.

I loved that character in X2, and the scenes between him and Wolverine were terrific. I'm all for a movie that expands on that.

I think it's a good sign that Singer showed an interest in it. Zach Snyder mentioned that it was "cool" in a recent interview for 300. There have been a few leaked script reviews online, and they've been pretty positive so far. I'll take as a good sign.

But's not going to be R. No way, no how, and if you're going to dwell on it, then what's the point of you even trying to give it any sort of a chance? I stopped caring about MPAA ratings once I turned 17 and didn't have to sneak into those movies anymore.

Maybe if you actually picked up a Wolverine comic you would see where I'm coming from? Yes, it's going to be watered down for the kiddies. The reason being is kids want to see Wolverine, a PG-13 rating is a guarantee that kids will get in, and it'll be filled with nothing but corny one liners and stupid cliche concepts that we've come to know with films like this.

I see the Wolverine film doing very poorly at the box office. Just because it's Wolverine doesn't mean it'll be an automatic hit, I know most of you Hugh Jackman fanatics are hoping for Spider-Man or Batman Begins like numbers, however, it's not going to happen so be prepared for it to either get Ghost Rider like numbers or Elektra like numbers.

@Wee- Yes, I saw Ghost Rider. I thought it was decent and had some pretty cool moments. But as a whole? I was very, very disappointment at how watered down it was from the original concept. Johnny Blaze from the comics is a hard drinking, cigarette smoking badass and while Nicholas Cage did a great job with what he was given, in the end he wasn't dark enough and neither was the story. Ghost Rider is another prime example of what happens when you hand material to a director who doesn't know what the **** he's doing.

Singer will not do it since it's with Fox, plus he's going to be in the midst of the Superman Returns sequel.

I'd laugh my ass off if you Wolverine fanatics got stuck with Ratner as a director. If that were to happen I'd cherish the whining, crying, and fear that the Hugh Jackman fanatics would be displaying. But then again, neither of which are familiar with the comics, so it's not like you'd care anyways.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Why are X-Maniac, Danoyse, and Loganbabe posting in this thread? They enjoyed the film, so why are they bugging us with their arguments and trying to convert us?

I'm thinking that if this keeps up I'll report their behavior to a mod. This thread was made for those "who didn't like the movie". It's not for those who LOVE the film and defend it all the time. If a mod doesn't do anything about it, then I'll just place them on ignore and enjoy debating with those who feel the same way as I do and listen/read their suggestions.

For the record, just because we hate the movie doesn't mean we agree on everything.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZwieBodKo0

I found this to be extremely amusing. Those who don't like the film will probably get the concept very quickly. t:

 

[Jan Irisi]

Why are X-Maniac, Danoyse, and Loganbabe posting in this thread? They enjoyed the film, so why are they bugging us with their arguments and trying to convert us?

I'm thinking that if this keeps up I'll report their behavior to a mod. This thread was made for those "who didn't like the movie". It's not for those who LOVE the film and defend it all the time. If a mod doesn't do anything about it, then I'll just place them on ignore and enjoy debating with those who feel the same way as I do and listen/read their suggestions.

For the record, just because we hate the movie doesn't mean we agree on everything.

How is that a debate exactly? Isn't that simply nodding in agreement "with people who feel the same way as I do"? That is not a debate. So in fact if someone does enter this thread with a different viewpoint, they are essentially tossed out of the here on their ear...simply because they disagree with you?

So let me get this straight...if I happen to like the movie, there are threads here that I am not allowed to go into, and not allowed to post in?

Put people on ignore....it's really the best thing for you, since you simply can't handle dissenting viewpoints.

 

[La_She-Beast]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZwieBodKo0

I found this to be extremely amusing. Those who don't like the film will probably get the concept very quickly. t:

lol "The Nighmare Before X4"

 

[LastSunrise1981]

How is that a debate exactly? Isn't that simply nodding in agreement "with people who feel the same way as I do"? That is not a debate. So in fact if someone does enter this thread with a different viewpoint, they are essentially tossed out of the here on their ear...simply because they disagree with you?

So let me get this straight...if I happen to like the movie, there are threads here that I am not allowed to go into, and not allowed to post in?

Put people on ignore....it's really the best thing for you, since you simply can't handle dissenting viewpoints.

What I'm saying is that those who enjoy the film come into a thread that wasn't made for them. This is for people who didn't like the film, just like there's a thread for those who like it.

The problem with what you're suggesting is that they come in here trying to change our minds, defend the film, defend Ratner, Penn, and Kinberg. Some have even viciously and rudely insulted those because those who disliked the film didn't agree with them. Hell, X-Maniac told me to go "*********e myself into a stupor over Spider-Man, Saw, POTC, Superman, and Batman Begins" since I enjoyed those more than X3.

Bottom line is this thread is specifically for those who didn't like the film and it allows those who didn't like the film to talk amongst themselves, hear suggestions, and debate with one another. Nowhere does it say that those who enjoy the film should be here starting trouble, trying to change peoples minds, and getting all butt hurt over someone speaking about the overexposure of Wolverine.

I can handle difference of opinion. Just last night I posted a bulletin about how I love the Saw trilogy. A couple of people sent me a message saying they felt it sucked and was a waste of time. I replied to them both in a calm, intelligent, and respectful manner accepting their opinion and not getting upset about it at all. Guess what? I didn't hear from them again and that's the truth. Posters like The Guard, X-Maniac, Danoyse, and Loganbabe are here only to start trouble and get defensive over posters criticizing their favorite film.

A perfect example would be how GoddessReicho(spelling?) HATES all three films. I happen to like both films, yet hate the third one. Just because we both hate the third one doesn't mean we agree on everything or pat each other on the back for our posts. Do you see her going into the "Praise X3" forum? Do you see ANYONE who hates the film going into any of the positives threads? No? I didn't think so. If I went into a thread made for those who enjoyed the film and started bashing it, they would say to me "If you hate the film so much, why are you in this thread?" See my point? This is for those who didn't like the film and wish to express their viewpoints without being attacked by those who liked it.

You have had many great new posters who came to this forum, expressed their opinion, and was viciously attacked by those who enjoyed the film and those posters have yet to return because of how they were treated.

I'm seriously just thinking about creating a private message forum or a chatroom that allows those who hate the film to express their viewpoints without having the supporters to come in and try to convert people.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

The point is that these boards suppress any dissent.

Just about every other thread on this board is a "lovers" board, whether specifically labelled as such or not.

Those who disliked the film can't be allowed one measly little thread to voice their opinions without being forced into arguments?

It's bullying, and it's been going on for far too long without any help from moderators. It's a double standard; if a "hater" persistently hounded people who loved the movie, it'd be grounds for banning.

You say "who are you to tell us what threads to go into?" Well, no one can tell you, it seems. But if you had any courtesy or tact, you'd stop purposely going into "enemy territory" to goad those who are minding their business.

 

[danoyse]

Why are X-Maniac, Danoyse, and Loganbabe posting in this thread? They enjoyed the film, so why are they bugging us with their arguments and trying to convert us?

I'm thinking that if this keeps up I'll report their behavior to a mod. This thread was made for those "who didn't like the movie". It's not for those who LOVE the film and defend it all the time. If a mod doesn't do anything about it, then I'll just place them on ignore and enjoy debating with those who feel the same way as I do and listen/read their suggestions.

For the record, just because we hate the movie doesn't mean we agree on everything.

Who's trying to convert anyone? I liked the movie, I didn't love the movie. I have plenty of issues on how things were handled, which I've stated time and again, and which makes me more than qualified to post on this thread.

I think the important question here is...why can't you let anyone post what they think on these boards?

Last time I checked, you and I were talking about the Wolverine movie. I wasn't trying to convert you to X3 fandom or tell you were wrong to hate X3. Go ahead, hate it. I really don't care. Frankly, I think you have every reason to.

We disagree about how Wolverine will work out. You just don't agree with me. That's fine. I work in marketing, my best friends are moms, and I got to see a chunk of the script recently...and I liked what I saw. I'm just making guesses from what I know here. You're the one whipping back with the oh-so-mature 'Hugh Jackman fanatic' comments and accusing me of never reading comic books or how I'm apparently going to cry when you think the movie flops.

Yes, I saw what X-Maniac said to you...and he was banned for it. I thought it was immature and inappropriate, and I'm glad he was called out on it. Nobody on these boards should be talking that way to each other, there's no place for that.

As far as Loganbabe (who's proved time and again who reads the comics...I think her passion for Wolverine is as justifiable as your "Cyclops Fans United" sig), do you really think you're "educating" her when you have loudly respond to everything she says by telling everyone she doesn't read comics? That's not educating. Educating would be starting a dialogue and learning from each other...not pretending to start a Dateline expose everytime you disagree with her.

If my *behavior* is simply disagreeing with you, how is that reportable to a mod? You're not an innocent victim here. Do you really want us to put up a list of all of the insults, false accusations, and ridiculous comments (which you've admitted to in the past) that you've put up about us around here? Believe me, it's a long list.

You don't like it, put us on ignore. If I respond to you, it's simply trying to start a discussion...not tell you what you don't know about film or mock you in front of others. Believe it or not, I actually think you're pretty smart...but your anger is totally misguided.

And if you have a problem with me personally, just PM me and we'll work it out. I think these arguments have less of a place on this thread then a post about undying love for X3. And I don't think anyone else wants to listen to it.

 

[X-Maniac]

Dear God, are we going over this all over again?

The ignore button is there for a purpose.

At least the previous posts in this thread were interesting debates on how to adapt a superhero comic, how Singer or Ratner deviated and what level of success or acceptability it had, Wolverine's level of exposure and popularity, rather than the 'get out of my playpen' crap. Arguing about arguing is so boring. A certain person doesn't like it that opposing views actually might make sense. zzzzzz.

 

[Megaton Sun]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZwieBodKo0

I found this to be extremely amusing. Those who don't like the film will probably get the concept very quickly. t:

Haha! I had that same nightmare.

 

[CapBeerCino]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZwieBodKo0

I found this to be extremely amusing. Those who don't like the film will probably get the concept very quickly. t:

Huge!!!

 

[CapBeerCino]

Similarly the scene of Beast with Leech was both biologically & genetically inaccurate. His blue skin and fur wouldn't magically disappear and reappear like the way it was depicted in the movie with Leech. Now imagine the scene with Angel instead, wouldn't his wings have shrinked into nothingless with Leech and magically re-grown back after leaving the room...lol how silly would that have looked on screen? Let me say these are not my main complaints with X3 but complaints that just poped out because I'm really grabbing-at-the-straws!

I remember thinking about it at the cinema... Where did the fur go? Then again, when looking at the lab Leech is kept in, you know reason had already flown out the window.

 

[BMM]

Well, the scene of mutants racing over ponds or playing basketball might have been fine in showing a school as a haven, but I'm glad you agree we didn't really find out why Jean, Scott and Ororo were there. We just get the idea that most students are orphans or runaways, and that these three were among the first.

The first movie is flawed in that regard, and also especially in Wolverine's introduction to the team, in which he snickers and mocks their codenames when he himself has a nickname (not to mention that Rogue already had one).

The scene should have been (incorporating parts of the actual dialogue, recalled from memory):

Wolverine: 'Let me get this right - Storm...Cyclops...What do they call you, Wheels?
Cyclops: 'All this, from a man who calls himself Wolverine.' (Wolverine scowls)
Xavier: 'Codenames are a vital part of what we do, Logan. The world hates people like us, we cannot risk all our identities being known.'
Wolverine to Cyclops: 'So why are you here?'
Cyclops: 'The Professor found me. I had no family, I was in an orphanage. My powers almost destroyed it. This has become my family.'
Storm: 'The Professor found me too. In the African village where i grew up, my powers were seen as a gift, i was worshipped for what i could do.'
Wolverine: 'And you chose to come here, to a world where they hate you?'
Storm: 'Yes, the Professor persuaded me. We have work to do Logan, to fight the hate and earn the trust of these people. It's part of what we do.'
Wolverine; 'What IS this place? (cut to scenes as shown in movie of Wolverine being shown round, but include Storm watering a garden in her hothouse)

I rather like that scene the way it is... but similar dialogue spread throughout the movie would be nice.

The dialogue i quickly created would easily, quickly and simply solve the problem of Wolverine's past with Sabretooth and Deathstrike in a flash. The creators of the movies needed more knowledge, experience and creativity in bringing the comicbook world to the screen. The lack of knowledge becomes obvious in the movies.

... and it adds some nice mystery to the characters as well.

A deeply flawed argument. Comicbooks have the luxury of being able to focus on one or a few characters in one or several issues, or even in mini-series. The movies do not have that luxury. Therefore, they should not create an imbalance as there isn't much chance to correct it or alter the balance.

Not really. The comic books, moreso than the movies, have the luxury of being able to spread the X-Men's stories evenly across the board over such a large number of issues... but they don't, and they never really have. Each arc, or even issue, has its main protagonists, while the rest of the team falls into the background as "support" characters. A single movie isn't going to fix the problem... it's most likely going to follow the same pattern that's been present for over 40 years. I agree with Goddess in hoping that perhaps someday someone will eventually break that cycle, but it's going to take someone incredibly knowledgeable and talented to do so (Kevin Smith and Joss Whedon look to be the only directors who had even heard about the X-Men )... But I can’t exactly say that I want every movie to be a mish-mash of characters and stories without any one ever being more dominant than the others. I think that would get just as old after a while.

Personally, I would just like more camaraderie and warmth between the X-Men… along with proper characterization… and yes, better and nicer moments for those characters who may not be in the forefront of a particular movie (that‘s not so much to ask ).

The first movie needed that dialogue i created to give some background to the X-Men themselves. The second movie also needed additional dialogue to give depth to Deathstrike and Sabretooth's connection to Wolverine, and some better Storm dialogue than the emo exchange with Nightcrawler. We also needed more tension when the X-Men have to join Magneto...

I agree with some of this.

…and less of the X-Men's bigotry towards Nightcrawler, which rather defeated their policy of acceptance (both Cyclops and Wolverine were a little hostile towards him, they behaved almost like the humans whose prejudice they hate). Nightcrawler should have been a joyous example of self-acceptance who won them over; instead he highlighted the X-Men's terrible inadequacies and insecurities and made them look like oddballs. He should have lifted their spirits, given them hope, not aroused their suspicions and triggered hostility.

To each his own. I like the startled look Pyro gives Nightcrawler. I think it speaks to the character’s purpose--that you can‘t judge a book by its cover. Moreover, I think it‘s pretty consistent with previous historical reactions to the character. I also like Wolverine‘s attitude toward Nightcrawler, as I think it‘s consistent with the way he treats newbies. Besides, I think it would be questionable to have all of the X-Men have a blasé reaction to someone who looks like Nightcrawler.

The X-movies reminded me of depictions of gay characters in movies - they used to be almost always depressed/suicidal, dying of Aids, or some sort of weird reclusive loner. The word 'gay' seemed a total misnomer for such tragic characters. Only when Queer as Folk came along did people see the idea of the happy homo, that it is possible to be gay and relatively balanced, even celebratory.

I disagree. I would be more inclined to agree if I thought Xavier, the X-Men’s founder, were ever portrayed as anything less than a “happy homo,” but he seems about as celebratory and relatively balanced as the X-Men have ever been allowed to be. Actually, I think I could say the same for a lot of the characters.

 

[gambitfire]

^I'm sorry but the backstory origin in 2 of those lines sound forced to me.

No offense.



I'm sure the right actors can pull them off though.