Now I want to talk about some more things in X3 that irritated me. I still think that Magneto's reaction to Mystique getting cured was bs. The explanation I've heard is this was an example of Magneto's extreme hatred towards humans. Well if that's the case then why does Magneto let Mystique live. In all three movies he showed little to no value towards human live and keeping Mystique alive opened up the posibility of her revealing the location of his base to the government. Furthermore, what was the significance of Mystique telling the government about the location of Magneto's base when he and his army would expect her betrayal and be forced to relocate. Is there any reason for me to believe that Mystique and Magneto didn't act like complete morons in this film?
Why must there be 2 parties, Why can't we have one giant party with different views!?
......
That's interesting because some of the elements of X3's story were very similar to X2. The mutant cure plot was the main focus of X3's storyline and a rehash of X2's plot element of Strker finding a way to get rid of mutants. Unfortunately, the Jean Grey/Phoenix storyline was poorly developed and took a backseat to the mutant cure one.
You can't mean better in terms of quality. The spiderman franchise was meant to be a franchise right from the beginning and none of the spidey films went through the production messes that the X-Men films experienced. Fox cut Singer's budget in X1 and moved up the release date by at least 3 months to make the movie fail. Fox cut Singer's budget in X2 thereby forcing him to rewrite the script. I don't need to say anything about how screwed up X3's production history was. Now let's compare the quality of the budgets:t:
Spider-man 1(139mil) X1(75mil)
Spider-man 2(200mil) X2(110mil)
Spider-man 3(>250mil) X3(210mil)
Now let's compare the running times. Since the X-Men films featured multiple characters you'd think the films would be significantly longer for the sake of quality character development.
Spider-man 1(2 hours 1min.) X1(1 hour 44 minutes) Spider-man 2(2 hours 7 minutes) X2( 2 hours 14 minutes)
Spider-man 3(2 hours 20minutes) X3(1 hour 44 minutes)
And since when budget and running time became synonymous to quality?
I love independent, small movies, so I totally disagree with that notion.
I do agree, though, that in X3, and even X1, budget and running time were a problem, but not in X2.
IThe X-franchise impressed me in a way that the Spidey movies never did, no matter how much they cost and how much they made. It´s simply a matter of taste.
I don't care about politics and production woes, I care about the finished product.
McKellen himself mentions on his website that he was unsure of Magneto's reaction to Mystique being cured. If he were so unsure, why didn't he discuss it or argue it? I have asked him this, but he hasn't answered any questions for some time. McKellen does say that Magneto would probably grieve privately when he found a quiet moment and that the character did have more pressing things to attend to at the time.
I wonder what else might have happened instead, in that scene. Would a mercy killing of the character worked, or made him seem even more cold? Would it have worked for them to take Mystique with them to the forest camp - what purpose would she serve there?
It's obviously a debatable point, but Magneto is at times brutally cold, as he has been with Rogue and Xavier. He has never been shown mentioning or thinking about Sabretooth or Toad since they seemed to die at Liberty Island, he had Henry Gyrich killed without any compunctions. He had Mystique put Xavier in a coma in X1. He can be cruel and ruthless to serve his own agenda.
What would you rather have happened in that scene when he abandons Mystique?
Amen. Politics and production woes have existed as long as film has. Go back and read about things that happened with movies like Citizen Kane and The Wizard of Oz, and countless other movies through today, and you'll see that whatever went down with X3 is nothing new.
Just because I've been rude on here doesn't mean I'm rude like this in real life. I've only been rude to YOU, Logan babe, and a host of others because you've been mean spirited, vicious, and downright rude to those who didn't agree with your views. Spare me the lecture of your victim playing card because you've said some pretty nasty things to me, wee, and any other who have disagreed with you.
I haven't resorted to profanity towards you. So I take it that my post struck a nerve with you, so I'm going to be nice to you.
You have your opinion about Spider-Man. It's true the overall product is all that matters, however, politics behind the scenes can affect the general quality that was originally intended for the film and that's what you so cleverly ignore. Did I say you're willing to accept mediocrity? Yes, I did. Do I still believe it? Not so much now, but to some extent I feel anyone who LOVES the comics, understands the comics, and just blindly defends the film and insults anyone who has a different opinion to me is willing to accept mediocrity.
You're not a loyalist, a loser, an idiot, or insane. I just believe that you have a bias that shows you'll defend Fox, Ratner, Penn, and Kinberg despite the boneheaded decisions they made that prevented the film from being an epic masterpiece. Again, you love the movie, that's great and I'm glad you enjoyed it.
As for the villain situation? Who said I didn't like to think? I enjoy films like Schindlers List, Starman, Taxi Driver, 1941, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, The Departed, Blood Diamond, X1/X2, Batman Begins, Edward Scissorhands, and so forth. The list goes on with my love of films. Villains who are evil for the sake of being evil have reasonable motives. To me, a villain who has human qualities takes away the mystery. I'm not speaking about Magneto or any other X-Men villain. They tend to have a human quality that makes the reader or the viewer connect with them on an emotional level..
As I said, God forbid we have a villain that's just evil. For example, I'm AGAINST Rob Zombie giving Michael Myers any kind of backstory. Why? Because it takes away the imagination and we're left feeling sorry for him instead of just being left with "The kid was just evil from the beginning." Same issue with Hannibal Lector. Some things are best left as a mystery and don't need any form of explanation. Stories often purposefully leave an ambigious ending in order to allow the reader/viewer to form his or own conclusion.
Last time I checked I'm not trolling in a forum for those who love the film. When you made your positive thread I stayed out of it, nor did I call for anyone to ruin it. I felt it was wrong that the mods closed it and that people went to troll in it for the sake of trolling. But you also created it for the sake of trolling as well, so in a sense, it goes both ways and both parties were in the wrong in that department.
It is nice to see the mods do absolutely NOTHING about this thread. It is getting out of hand & they dont care. Yay go mods
Nell's still playing the victim card? He has every right to post in this thread just like I have the right to ignore his vitriolic speech. Why does he feel as though I'm obligated to read and respond to the posts of someone who had no respect for me 5 months ago and still has no respect for me?
This is becoming absurd. Nell cursed you out? I have no problem with people posting in this thread who disagree with my opinions. In fact I encourage it because all it does is draw more attention to this thread and keeps it going. I've never even suggested for the mods to ban any of the people who have been rude towards me. However, I have very little tolerance for people who use verbal threats with profanity to make a point. Contributing to this forum is a priviledge and there is a certain level of class all posters should display. I think Nell definitely crossed over the line with this tirade and suggest to the mods for him to be banned.
That's a very profound statement. X3 was meant to be so much more than what the end product provided. The script was rubbish. The movie was falsely marketed. The acting was mediocre at best. Most of the characters suffered from over and underexposure. The movie was 30 minutes too short. I have no problem if people enjoyed this film but, I'm still amazed that anyone can truely believe this film had quality and lived up to its potential.
What does this guy want from us? I never said his opinions were pointless. I've never called him or other X3 lovers idiots unless I was instigated into doing it. If you don't like the opinions of the haters you can choose to do one of following:
A. Continue whinning like a spoiled brat.
B. Waste your time trying to get me banned.
C. Agree to disagree with my opinions.
D. Ignore me like I've choosen to do with a few people.
Considering Nell's behavior since Janaury I'm inclinced to predict he chooses A.
In my opinion there are no villians that are evil for the sake of being evil. Even the master of evilness(Satan) has an ulterior motive(Hate for God). 99% of the villians in books, films, and real life appear to have an ulterior motive behind their evilness. It always annoys me when I am forced to guess what motivates the remaining 1%.
Here's where I disagree with you Lastsunrise. I certaintly don't believe anyone is born evil. People who commit this hideous crimes usually have troubled backgrounds, are deficient neurologically, or have no faith in a higher power. Of course there are exceptions to the rule(BTK killer). I'm curious in understanding the backgrounds of these people so our society can find solutions to prevent these people from hurting themselves and others.
That thread was doomed the moment Nell choose to call it "For those who actually want to discuss the film." That's an insult regardless of how anyone trys to spin it. A few months ago I started a thread that had a controversial title and it was closed because some people thought I started it just to be annoying. I was irritated at the mods decision because it was not my intention to bother people with that thread but, I respected their decision, moved on, and I'm convinced the mods are fair minded people.
I'm really getting sick of all of this bull****.
I hope this discussion does not turn into another debate. This is one of the reasons why I think Ratner did such a horrible job of directing this film. A scene of Magneto grieving privately later on in the film would have allowed me to accept Magneto leaving Mystique. It would perfect sense because it would have suggested that Magneto was merely holding his emotions in so his members wouldn't see him cry. Also, it would have made Magneto appear to be more human.
I think we can all agree that it made sense that Mystique served little to no purpose for the brotherhood's cause. However, that scene of Magneto being coldhearted to the extent of rejecting her but, showing mercy by not killing her seems to be contradictory.
I know Magneto is brutal. That's why I don't understand why he brutally rejects Mystique but, let's her live which opened the posibility of her betraying Magento.
All I'm looking for is consistency. The scene would have worked if Magneto was shown to grieve privately. He could have appeared to be very human be grieving in front of his brotherhood members. Ratner could have choosen for Magneto to kill Mystique for the obvious reasons. Unfortunately, Ratner, Zak, and Simon put very little thought into giving us a clear understanding of what motivates the actions of many characters in X3.
It may be nothing new, but did the politics affect the quality of Citizen Kane and Wizard of Oz? Obviously not, as both films are considered to be classics and have a special place in cinematic history. You simply cannot compare films as whatever politics happened then, really had no bearing in terms of quality because there wasn't a lot of money then.
Money changes people, money changes a lot of situations obviously. To say what happened with X3 in 2005 into 2006 is not the same as anything happening in 1941. So the argument you presented is null and void Danoyse.
The politics ultimately affected the quality of X3. How many times do we have to explain this to you, Nell, and others before you grasp onto the concept? We're not saying you should feel the same as we do, but to compare what happened in 1941 to 2006 is laughable.
Somebody has to be the bigger man here & just ignore this thread & move on. None of you have nothing to win or proove or gain by continuing this ridiclious fighting & whining about things. Nothing will change. There is nothing to win in continuing these useless fights & whining about it. There is nothing to proove & nothing to gain. In the end the only thing you three are winning & gaining is the fact that you are showing the hype which one of you three is the biggest idiot.
Maybe you should be asking him what he can do to end this ridiculous conflict. In retrospect, none of us need to ignore this thread but one of us needs to stop harrassing the people with viewpoints he disagrees with.
Because there are those out there who call for others with a different opinion to not post in particular threads. Those who attack others for their opinions. Those who twist other's words around to try to make it sound like they are intolerant of other opinions, when they are rather just intolerant of the intolerance that is allowed to dominate around here. Because there are those who have to use everything they can get their hands on to justify and prove their view, and force it down other people's throats, instead of letting their opinion speak for itself.
I'd love for there to be 1 huge party with different views. That's what I've been fighting for.
But LastSunrise and thewheepeople will constantly twist my words to make my motives look like something they aren't to try to discredit my view and make sure that not a single positive viewpoint is spoken around here.
*notices how LastSunrise accused me of insulting his girlfriend when I did no such thing
Just another example of how he doesn't pay attention to what is actually said, but instead, twists the words of others to suit his own means.
It is nice to see the mods do absolutely NOTHING about this thread. It is getting out of hand & they dont care. Yay go mods
Anyways, I figured that I would try to relax in the haters thread once more.
I've thought about creating a chat room or a completely different forum where the haters can discuss amongst ourselves without interference. However, the more I think about it, the more I realize that perhaps its best that a mod close this thread.
Why? Because we(those who don't like the movie) cannot have an intelligent, peaceful, or civil discussion without those who like the film getting defensive, condescending, and insulting because we don't agree with them. Regardless of what they say about me, wee, or anyone else, they started the whole insulting routine because anyone who said anything negative was either a "fake superhero fan", "a whiney fanboy", "a bitter Singer fanboy", and a "moron".
This whole "war" started with them and their attitudes. I admit that I've said a lot of mean spirited and hurtful comments. I admit that I was wrong for treating Logan babe, Danoyse, and Storm22 the way I did. Unlike most people I am man enough to admit I was wrong. I've been banned two times and while I feel my banning was uncalled for, it still doesn't change the fact that I said some immature and rude comments.
Why Nell hasn't been banned for a lot of the insults, profane language, and posts he's typed is beyond me. But hey, you live and you learn, and I've learned that we'll never have our own thread where we(those who don't like the film) can discuss amongst ourselves in an intelligent manner. Just because we hate the movie doesn't mean haters agree with each others views all the time. Wee and a host of others have disagreed with me plenty of times.
Hell, Worthy is disappointed in the film and he hates me, as does Cino.
Bottom line? I say close this thread. It seems it's been around long enough and the argument has gone on long enough.
Spider-Man 3 is about to be released in 6 days , Pirates of the Caribbean: At Worlds End is drawing closer, and Rob Zombie's Halloween is coming out in August. Those are the films I'm most interested in at this point and I found myself caring less and less about X3, this forum, and this thread in general. Majority of my time is spent on the Spider-Man 3 forum, the Misc. Movie Thread, Dark Knight, and so forth.
In closing? I say close it.