The Dark Knight Rises Improving Fight Scenes

[returntovoid]

The choreography of the fight scenes in the third film need to be improved, in the sense you could not clearly see what going on when Batman was fighting in Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.

I think they should take influence from Martial Arts movies that are along the lines of Enter the Dragon or even the bar fight in Daredevil.

From the recent videos of Batman fighting in the Batman: Arkham Asylum video game, I got to say that they properly captured and showed his fighting style. Sefton Hill (game directer of Batman: Arkham Asylum) said that the fights were inspired by Martial Arts movies.

 

[maveholic31]

Fight scenes don't have the same effect if it's shot further away. The point of Keysi and not really know what's happening was to establish the Batman's shadowy figure dismantling the bad guys. It kinda takes away that effect if you zoom out... unless you want them to get rid of Keysi.
Besides, the fight scenes were great and detailed (watch the Pruitt Building scene thoroughly and you'll be surprised how much little detail went into it)

I'm interested in the concept of EtD though and remember the epic scenes of that film.

 

[Texas Zombie]

Needs to be a longer movie. More specifically better longer fighting. People like to see batman chew bubble gum and kick ass.

 

[louiebling$]

yes Batman needs to actually use martial arts!!! He looked like a straight up Brawler in TDK and its the mother****ing batman! he needs to start using his training and martial arts.. thats who he is not just using his elbows and gaunlets and just Judo throws... that urked me so much in TDK.

 

[ChickenScratch]

Unless you missed it Keysi is a martial art. Some styles look like as you put it "brawling" but that's the nature of it, I train in Kyokushin Karate which is sometime referred to as Brawling Karate, doesn't change the fact that I've been working at it for 23 years.

 

[nathaniel]

Unless you missed it Keysi is a martial art. Some styles look like as you put it "brawling" but that's the nature of it, I train in Kyokushin Karate which is sometime referred to as Brawling Karate, doesn't change the fact that I've been working at it for 23 years.

none of that matters as long as it looks good on film and keysi,no matter how good it is in reality, looks crap on film. TDK and BB big problem for me was the batman seemed like a guy in a suit rather then the batman who roams rooftops, and can move like a cat of the comics batmans three biggest attributes are his intelligence,his fighting skill and his obsession/drive to the mission imo only the drive was truly done well.

films like Chocolate show how fight scenes should be done when the female lead leaps into a pack of three guys and while in midair takes out two while strangling another is when the pathetic fights in BB/TDK look like amatuer filmaking.

Another thing they should do is bring in Freerunners to act as stunt doubles for rooftop scenes.

 

[NoirMan82]

none of that matters as long as it looks good on film and keysi,no matter how good it is in reality, looks crap on film. TDK and BB big problem for me was the batman seemed like a guy in a suit rather then the batman who roams rooftops, and can move like a cat of the comics batmans three biggest attributes are his intelligence,his fighting skill and his obsession/drive to the mission imo only the drive was truly done well.

films like Chocolate show how fight scenes should be done when the female lead leaps into a pack of three guys and while in midair takes out two while strangling another is when the pathetic fights in BB/TDK look like amatuer filmaking.

Another thing they should do is bring in Freerunners to act as stunt doubles for rooftop scenes.

Realistically, fighting like that would wear you down really fast. They developed the Keysi form to show how Batman would really have to fight against a large number of opponents. I think the cinematic direction needs to be refined, but the fighting style is good.

 

[Crook]

Realistically, fighting like that would wear you down really fast. They developed the Keysi form to show how Batman would really have to fight against a large number of opponents. I think the cinematic direction needs to be refined, but the fighting style is good.

If they were trying to portray realism of fights in TDK, then they have failed immensely. I don't know what fights some of ya'll have seen, with trained fighters or otherwise, but they look nothing like the choreographed mess in the film.

The Hong Kong and Penthouse sequences being the worst offenders. You could blatantly see thugs just preparing for hits, while Bats himself embarrassingly moves in an awkward fashion. There were moments where you could literally see each move being planned out, like it was part of a rehearsal. I'm sorry, but it was truly bad. The only "good" fight scene they had was in Maroni's club.

 

[ChickenScratch]

none of that matters as long as it looks good on film and keysi,no matter how good it is in reality, looks crap on film. TDK and BB big problem for me was the batman seemed like a guy in a suit rather then the batman who roams rooftops, and can move like a cat of the comics batmans three biggest attributes are his intelligence,his fighting skill and his obsession/drive to the mission imo only the drive was truly done well.
films like Chocolate show how fight scenes should be done when the female lead leaps into a pack of three guys and while in midair takes out two while strangling another is when the pathetic fights in BB/TDK look like amatuer filmaking.
Another thing they should do is bring in Freerunners to act as stunt doubles for rooftop scenes.

There's a huge gulf between film fighting and real fighting. No matter how pretty the style, be it karate, kung fu, hapkido, thai boxing, when you see it outside of stylized, choreographed forms much of it looks like brawling. Film fighting does not look, move or behave anything like a real fight. In the real world fights don't' go on for minutes on end, they are quick, savage and really close up, not punching range close but almost nose to nose, just like it's portrayed in Batman.

Heck, many of the great martial arts stars are not actual martial artists but dancers and acrobats (like Jackie Chan) pantomiming pretty moves that fool people. It's great to have someone do a flip and fly over 19 people's heads, but any person with any training knows that you never let both your feet leave the ground in a fight or you are at your opponent's mercy. Dramatic and pretty, yes, realistic, no.

Frankly, I prefer the fights as filmed. Movies like BB, TDK, Bourne, Taken actually for the most part portray the martial arts as they are, not some fantacy of a director who's trying to increase dramatic tension.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Begins: Too blurry/choppy... but the fighting did seem to be strong, powerful and unpredictable. If only we could see it.

TDK: You could see what was happening this time... but the fighting it self was much too slow and choreographed. It severely lacked oomph.

The fighting scenes is something Nolan has never got right... and heck theres his reason to return for Batman 3.

Let's find that balance... with a bit of martial arts style!

 

[Motown Marvel]

despite the intentions of shooting keysi method up close, its just not visually entertaining. its not much of a fight scene if you cant make any sense of the fighting. that just completely defeats the purpose. it loses all entertainment.

in BB the shots were too close and quick and non-sensical. in TDK the shots were wider so you could see more, but the fights just came off slow and obviously rehearsed, it didnt look natural.

i also think they shouldnt rely solely on keysi. batman is a master of many styles, and i think they should at least attempt to reflect that to some degree in the films.

 

[Steyin]

As much as I "like" the fighting in BB and TDK, I really still feel that the subtle moves Keaton puled off in Batman are more in tune with the Batman persona that has been established since. I'm all for more/better fighting, but rather than just zoom out there needs to be a certain asthetic/signature to how Batman fights, rather than just showing us he is capable of martial arts. The technique is what matters most to me.

And for the love of god, I'd like to at least once see someone sneak up on him and he punches them in the face without looking, just like in the animated series.

 

[BatFan88]

The fight scenes are still a thing to work on.
by the 'Batman Begins' movie it was impossible to follow the fights,
And by 'The Dark Knight' it was a little better to follow.
i hope it will be much better now.

 

[weezerspider]

Begins fighting was down right pathetic. TDK's fighting was quite enjoyable, but it still needs improvement.

 

[Texas Zombie]

batman fights at the criminals level just with higher skill. He's using mixed martial arts. Judo, boxing, and submissions. He should use more counter striking in the fights.

 

[Eric Brooks]

whoever choreographed the fighting in the Blade movies

get that guy/girl, people, whatever

I have yet to see better fighting in a "superhero" flick

 

[Eros]

There's a huge gulf between film fighting and real fighting. No matter how pretty the style, be it karate, kung fu, hapkido, thai boxing, when you see it outside of stylized, choreographed forms much of it looks like brawling. Film fighting does not look, move or behave anything like a real fight. In the real world fights don't' go on for minutes on end, they are quick, savage and really close up, not punching range close but almost nose to nose, just like it's portrayed in Batman.

Heck, many of the great martial arts stars are not actual martial artists but dancers and acrobats (like Jackie Chan) pantomiming pretty moves that fool people. It's great to have someone do a flip and fly over 19 people's heads, but any person with any training knows that you never let both your feet leave the ground in a fight or you are at your opponent's mercy. Dramatic and pretty, yes, realistic, no.

Frankly, I prefer the fights as filmed. Movies like BB, TDK, Bourne, Taken actually for the most part portray the martial arts as they are, not some fantacy of a director who's trying to increase dramatic tension.

Only Taken and the Bourne Movies portray fighters like they are, go back and watch a Jason Bourne movie, and then go watch Begins or TDK. Jason Bourne is a brutal and very intelligent fighter, Bales Batman has 3 moves, which he does over and over again.

 

[The Guard]

The fighting in both movies was decent, not great, but serviceable. The only way it's going to improve is for him to add more moves to his repertoire.

 

[returntovoid]

Batman is a well trained Ninja and Martial Artist, they should at least show all that training.

The lack of Batarang, Smoke Grenade and hiding in the the shadow stealth attack in TDK reduced the Ninja aspect of Batman which was very present in Batman Begins. His Martial Arts skills, on the other hand, were never choreographed nor showed proper repertoire of his moves right in neither BB nor TDK.

 

[Eric Brooks]

Batman is a well trained Ninja and Martial Artist, they should at least show all that training.

The lack of Batarang, Smoke Grenade and hiding in the the shadow stealth attack in TDK reduced the Ninja aspect of Batman which was very present in Batman Begins. His Martial Arts skills, on the other hand, were never choreographed nor showed proper repertoire of his moves right in neither BB nor TDK.

exactly

 

[The Batman]

I think one of the reasons the fighting was slow was because the batsuit was heavier this time around. For the next one, they have to create a suit to that is fight scene friendly.

As for Keysi, the style is getting tired. In TDK, he'd do the same types of moves several times. It's time to throw in several types of brutal martial arts techniques. Batman 3 could definetely surpass BB and TDK and hand to hand fight scenes

 

[ChrisB]

I hated that in TDK, Batman didnt throw one kick! (Except at the door to save Harvey) And he also didnt use a batarang =\

And to whoever said TDK fights looked too choreographed, I completely agree! It was most obviously I think during the fight with Lao's men in Hong Kong.

 

[Eric Brooks]

I think one of the reasons the fighting was slow was because the batsuit was heavier this time around. For the next one, they have to create a suit to that is fight scene friendly.

agreed, I don't really find it "realistic" that Bruce would attempt to fight crime 365 nights a year with all that heavy gear. A sleeker suit more suitable for actual martial arts is definitley needed.

One of the main reasons I never liked Nolan's batsuits (aside from the #1 reason being the look), if he's going for realistic then he needs a suit that provides a little more free movement as well as armor.

 

[ChickenScratch]

I hated that in TDK, Batman didnt throw one kick! (Except at the door to save Harvey) And he also didnt use a batarang =\
And to whoever said TDK fights looked too choreographed, I completely agree! It was most obviously I think during the fight with Lao's men in Hong Kong.

As a martial artist I'm gonna fill you in on something. All those fancy high kicks you see in movies, completely useless. The higher above your waist your leg goes, the less power is delivered, not to mention the strike is telegraphed like hell. Keysi, like Krav Maga and many other combativs keeps it's kicks to low line attacks where they are actually effective and the higher line attacks to the hands and elbows.

I've used high kicks many times in tournaments and demonstrations, but in a real fight it's seen coming a mile away. I've not once used a high kick in a streetfight, low line kicks yes.

 

[Crook]

I've used high kicks many times in tournaments and demonstrations, but in a real fight it's seen coming a mile away. I've not once used a high kick in a streetfight, low line kicks yes.

If it could be seen coming from a mile away, then it would never work whether it's a real fight or not. I've seen a couple high kicks knock people's lights out (in tournaments), and these weren't exactly beginners.

You're either highly undermining its effectiveness, or you yourself aren't very skilled at the maneuver.