• The upgrade to XenForo 2.3.7 has now been completed. Please report any issues to our administrators.

Improving Spider-Man 3 (here we go again)

After seeing Spider-Man 3, I find that my mind is doing the same thing it was doing this time last summer when I saw X-Men 3, which is thinking of ways to make it better. Of course, it's totally pointless because the movie's already out, and it's totally unfair because the writers had a difficult job, and I probably couldn't have done much better if it was my job. But I can't help it. So I might as well share some of my ideas with you guys.

First of all, here's some of the things I WOULDN'T change:
-The cast. I was okay with Topher Grace as Eddie; clearly they want to represent Eddie as the dark side of Peter, which was fine; as cool as a villain as Carnage is, I could care less if he appears in the sequels or if Grace would have fit that role better. Bryce Dallas Howard was fine as Gwen, even if she didn’t do much. Tom Haden Church did very well as Sandman. And the always reliable James Cromwell comes through as Captain Stacy, even if he had even less to do than his daughter.
-The action scenes. The effects and the fights were top notch, with Spidey defeating Venom a high point.
-The Peter vs. Harry subplot. They’ve pretty much been building up to this for the last two movies, so it was good to see it pay off, and to see these two former best friends trying to kill each other. It felt a little awkward at times, but I survived. And I did dig the team-up at the end; it gave us more action and let Harry die a hero.

Now, here's some problems I had and how I'd fix them:

Problem #1: Flint Marko’s transformation into Sandman and the appearance of the symbiote are way too contrived. Flint, the guy who really killed Uncle Ben, just happens to stumble onto this test site and gain superpowers, while the symbiote appears out of nowhere.
Solution:
-Flint Marko, still in jail, volunteers for an experiment that will pay for his daughter’s treatment (which we will just call “the Sandman experiment”).
-A lab is analyzing a strange black substance brought back from the moon on a mission led by John Jameson (mentioned but not seen). That lab is in the same building as the Sandman experiment.
-The black substance is stored away. The Sandman experiment commences, but something goes horribly wrong. Cue awesome and scary transformation scene as Flint is atomized and the lab goes completely haywire and a fire breaks out. The whole building blacks out, including the floor with the black substance. When the emergency power kicks in, the black substance is gone.
-Spider-Man arrives to help get the doctors out of the burning lab. During this time, the black stuff attaches itself to Peter without him noticing.

Okay, so that connects the two origins together and gives us some motivation for the appearances of these two new villains. Problem #1 is solved.

Problem #2-3: So Peter gets into a fight, accidentally hits MJ, and decides that that’s the last straw and he must get the suit off. Boo hoo. Oh, and Gwen has nothing to do AT ALL.
Solution: Spidey, in the black costume, catches up with Sandman on a rooftop and beats the crap out of him. Sandman strikes a chimney and cracks it. Spidey goes into a rage, determined to take his revenge for Uncle Ben. He is so preoccupied with beating Sandman that he doesn’t notice the collapsing chimney. (The next bit is straight out of the comics). The chimney falls. Captain George Stacy is there to push a kid out of the way of the falling debris, and is crushed. Spidey turns and realizes what has just happened. He abandons Sandman and goes down to the street to find George underneath the debris. Dying, Stacy tells Spidey that he knows he’s really Peter, and to look after Gwen. He dies.

Sandman escapes, only to be caught by a special SWAT team armed with water hoses and liquid nitrogen tanks to put him on ice. He is apprehended and taken to prison (we’ll come back to that).

Jameson, the public, and Gwen all savage Spidey for the captain’s death. Peter, devastated, realizes that the black costume has turned him into a murderous monster, and goes to the bell tower to get the suit off. After that, I say he heads to a scrapyard to take out his frustrations at his utter failure as a hero before falling into MJ’s arms.

Pretty heavy, huh? I can’t help it, I’m very proud of that one. After that, there would have to be about 15 or 20 minutes without any action at all, to allow the characters to come to terms with Captain Stacy’s death and give the audience a chance to rest before the big finale.

Problem #4: Sandman and Venom just happen to meet on the street and decide to team up.
Solution: Remember how Sandman was apprehended? He’s cooling his heels in a special prison, until Eddie comes along,(using the symbiote’s disguising powers to infiltrate the place) and breaks him out.

Quick short action scene, a little less happenstance. Problem #4 is solved.

Problem #5: Gwen and MJ both need more to do.
Solution: Sandman and Venom kidnap both MJ AND Gwen (duh!).

I like this one. Gwen doesn’t have much experience as a damsel, so MJ could try to keep her calm, and we get some nice chemistry there.

Problem #6: Every villain knows Spidey’s identity by the end of the movies.
Solution: Sandman never finds out. After the big battle, Spidey merely gives Sandman an address. Sandman goes to the address and Peter is there. Sandman explains what happened that night (pretty much the same as in the movie), and Peter forgives him.

I have a few other ideas for scenes, but that’s pretty much the gist of it. Any objections or any other ideas, let’s hear ‘em.

Problem #7: Eddie just happens to go to the SAME church Spidey's in AT THE SAME TIME. Coincidences flood the plot.
Solution: We get to know Eddie's personal life more. His failures as a person, his depression, and possible family problems are revealed to the audience. He contemplates death, and begins walking down a dark street (slightly drunk, and carrying a gun). Earlier in the film, Symbiote Spider-Man beat Eddie to a pulp for doctoring that photo of him.

As he walks down the street, he spots Spidey swinging into the church. Rather than kill himself, he realizes he can take his pain out on Spidey. He then decides to take Spider-Man's life. He blazes into the church. Just as he does this, though, the symbiote attaches to him. Eddie drops the gun, and transforms into Venom.



Oh, and they should've kept Harry for Spidey 4? How? Harry just suddenly made a jump from shouting "NO!" at the mirror to wanting to kill Peter. What they should've done was to keep Harry contemplating what to do. On one side, Peter is his best friend, and he doesn't want to hurt him. On the other side, his father lost his life to Peter. Throughout the course of the film, he'd be conflicted, upset, confused, and full of rage. He begins to distance himself from Peter as the Symbiote takes control of him. At one point, Harry drowns himself in alcohol, and causes an uproar in a bar (revealing his hatred). By the end of the film, he sees Spider-Man as a murderer (the death of Captain Stacy, and the monstrous Symbiote Spidey), and decides to avenge his father. More plot development, fewer villains.
 
Jesus, are you guys even listening? There is no "save ____ for Spider-Man 4." There was absolutely no guarantee, and there still isn't, that Raimi and the cast would have returned for SM4. Because of that, all loose ends had to be tied up in this film: Harry's story had to be concluded, Venom's story had to be concluded, and etc.

Does this result in a rushed movie? Yes, but even that is only because of time constraints. SM3 will be "improved" once the extended cut, the definitive version of the film, is released.
 
I honestly think the fan boys are overreacting.... but I do think the biggest flaw was the lack of development for Brock and the bull sh:t back story with Sandman... Marko shouldn't have had all that involvement with Uncle Ben and all... it just took so much screen time away from other characters... the acting was extremely poor too... Dunst and Maguire were just laughable the third time around... I thought Topher did a good job... but damn he was missing half the time... the movie simply had way too many elements going on at once... they should have cut down Sandman's role... just made him and ordinary thug... but Raimi and his love for the damn character just overdid the damn thing... you wanna blamae Arad for Venom then blame him... but what Raimi did with Sandman was a joke... he should have no business with Uncle Ben... WAY too much screen time was devoted to him... the script should have just focused on the love triangle with MJ/Harry/Pete and more Brock/Gwen... Sandman was a waste... I hated what Raimi did with him...
 
I know a lot of people have complained about the Uncle Ben retcon, but honestly I kind of like it. It brings the story of the trilogy full circle. Think about it:

SM1: Uncle Ben dies, Peter is indirectly responsible
SM2: Peter confesses about it
SM3: Peter gains a less black-and-white view of life and is able to forgive what happened

I think it was really important that Peter forgive not just the killer, but himself as well. His guilt over Uncle Ben's death is what drove him to become Spider-Man, but it also eats away at him. You can see in SM3 that his guilt quickly became anger, which lead him on a path of degradation. It was critical for Peter to exorcise his demons and find redemption for them. Letting go is a part of anyone's, let alone Peter's, growth as a human being.
 
Still wasn't needed... Raimi just flat out shat on Topher's character with no regard... I wish he'd get more screen time... I mean it wasn't as bad as what happened to Cyclops... but comparable nevertheless... anyway its nit-picking... the franchise will never be as good from here on out I don't think... there are just no more compelling enough characters or villains. Not that I don't want more movies (the sig is self explanatory) but I'd personally just go with Kraven, Lizard, and maybe Black Cat (not that I am a fan bought you need more than two villains if they stop at SM4) and end the franchise with Maguire and Dunst getting married... I really don't see another villain really working with Lizard other than Kraven. Black Cat could still be a good sub plot. Just do away with Gwen and leave it at that... matter of fact I kind like my idea so much I'll change the sig...
 
EDIT - Fine. We have differing opinions, so there's really no point in arguing.
 
You make sense with your point dude... I just had other priorities with the movie.
 
There is no "save ____ for Spider-Man 4." There was absolutely no guarantee, and there still isn't, that Raimi and the cast would have returned for SM4.

I wouldn't be suprised if they considered splitting it into 2 movies, but ran into those contractual obligations you keep bringing up, and just decided it would be less trouble to sqwish it all into one flick.

Like DawnWarrior said, I'm glad I'm not the one making these decisions.
 
Raimi actually admitted to thinking about splitting it into 2 movies, but backed off because of money and contract issues.
 
I know a lot of people have complained about the Uncle Ben retcon, but honestly I kind of like it. It brings the story of the trilogy full circle. Think about it:

SM1: Uncle Ben dies, Peter is indirectly responsible
SM2: Peter confesses about it
SM3: Peter gains a less black-and-white view of life and is able to forgive what happened

I think it was really important that Peter forgive not just the killer, but himself as well. His guilt over Uncle Ben's death is what drove him to become Spider-Man, but it also eats away at him. You can see in SM3 that his guilt quickly became anger, which lead him on a path of degradation. It was critical for Peter to exorcise his demons and find redemption for them. Letting go is a part of anyone's, let alone Peter's, growth as a human being.

I agree. His "I forgive you" line was Peter forgiving himself as well as the Sandman. I think it was handled well.
 
Problem #7: Eddie just happens to go to the SAME church Spidey's in AT THE SAME TIME. Coincidences flood the plot.
Solution: We get to know Eddie's personal life more. His failures as a person, his depression, and possible family problems are revealed to the audience. He contemplates death, and begins walking down a dark street (slightly drunk, and carrying a gun). Earlier in the film, Symbiote Spider-Man beat Eddie to a pulp for doctoring that photo of him.

As he walks down the street, he spots Spidey swinging into the church. Rather than kill himself, he realizes he can take his pain out on Spidey. He then decides to take Spider-Man's life. He blazes into the church. Just as he does this, though, the symbiote attaches to him. Eddie drops the gun, and transforms into Venom.

Fantastic.

That's another of the overall problems with SM3 that got on my nerves was the endless plot contrivances to get everything to happen at the same time. I'll admit that with a movie as crammed full of story as this one, that sort of thing can happen.
 
Peter and Eddie being at the same church really isn't a coincidence. They were both in the same area and were both heading for a church. It's hardly coincidence they ended up in the same place, it would have been odd for them not to.

Also, why are we arguing about coincidences in comic book movies? It's a coincidence that everything that happens to a superhero happens the way it does. If you want to argue against it, fine. But don't single out one movie for an entire genre that employs those kinds of contrivances.
 
Peter and Eddie being at the same church really isn't a coincidence. They were both in the same area and were both heading for a church. It's hardly coincidence they ended up in the same place, it would have been odd for them not to.

Also, why are we arguing about coincidences in comic book movies? It's a coincidence that everything that happens to a superhero happens the way it does. If you want to argue against it, fine. But don't single out one movie for an entire genre that employs those kinds of contrivances.

There are plenty of churches in New York City. Eddie and Peter happen to go to the same church at the same time. And it happened to be Eddie, and not some random Christian. They also happened to be in a VERY quiet church. How coincidental can that get?

The meteor falls into the park right next to Peter and the symbiote climbs onto his bike. The meteor could've landed anywhere else on Earth, but happened to land RIGHT NEXT TO SPIDER-MAN.

Two major coincidences.
 
Peter and Eddie being at the same church really isn't a coincidence. They were both in the same area and were both heading for a church. It's hardly coincidence they ended up in the same place, it would have been odd for them not to.

Also, why are we arguing about coincidences in comic book movies? It's a coincidence that everything that happens to a superhero happens the way it does. If you want to argue against it, fine. But don't single out one movie for an entire genre that employs those kinds of contrivances.

There's more coincidences in SM3 than any 2 superhero movies one could name. Once they build up, the drama becomes completely moot because every plot twist feels forced rather than organic.

As for the 'extended cut' that I'm sure will come out, most people who will ever see SM3 will likely see the theatrical cut, no matter how good the newer version will be. So the definitive version and the preferred version will likely not be the same cut, and that to me is the real tragedy, that such gifted and experienced filmmakers didn't get it right the first time.

BUT to put things in perspective for just a sec, I will most likely buy the DVD when it comes out (I'll probably wait for the extended cut), it's nowhere near the worst superhero movie ever, or even of the year, or the summer. I guess the bar was set so excruciatingly high by me and others and our hopes weren't met. And that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
 
Resurrecting this topic...

One of the coincidences is that Peter is hanging out with Gwen in class, who just happens to be (sort of) dating Eddie, who just happens to be Peter's new rival at the Bugle. I would solve this with character: establish Eddie as kind of an obsessive person (which could be the reason Gwen would like to keep her distance), and when he finds that this Parker guy is jonesing his girl, he decides he'd like to keep a closer eye on Parker, so he gets himself hired at the Bugle. Maybe even establish that Eddie has no photography experience.
 
Peter, hurting all over after getting the suit off, collapses at MJ’s doorstep. She nurses him back to health. When he wakes up, he freaks out like the suit’s still crawling on him, thrashing wildly and screaming, eventually crawling up onto the ceiling. When MJ calms him down, he remembers where he is, and says, “I got it off.”

I thought of something to add to that:

So MJ's tending to him in bed, he wakes up and freaks out, thrashing his way onto the ceiling. MJ's just kinda staring at him as he gets ahold of himself.

PETER [calming down]:
I got it off! I got it off....I got it off.

(Peter stares at MJ. She gives him an odd look.)

(Pause)

PETER:
I'm naked, aren't I.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Staff online

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
202,262
Messages
22,074,563
Members
45,875
Latest member
kedenlewis
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"