The Dark Knight Intensity of Fight sequences in TDK!

[General Vulcun]

I understood Nolan's purpose for the fight scenes, and I absolutely loved them. Batman is not Jackie Chan. He doesn't dazzle his enemies with jumping spinning back kicks and triple round houses like there is someone watching ("beater entertain the innocent bystander wtaching me kick the crap out of this drug dealer or else I wont get a good rep in Gotham"). Batman's objective is to get the job done as quickly as possible for him, and Begins showed that. IMO, Keysi with the camera pulled back enough to see both fighters completely in camera view would look stupid and silly, and the impact that we got from the fighting scenes in Begins would be clearly absent.

Honestly, so what if we don't see Batman throw the punch, or cnnect with the punch? Do we really need to see every move in order to accept Batman as a great fighter? Is he any less of a fighter because we didn't see the punch? He still knocked the guy the **** out, he's obviously a great, strong fighter, so why is it so important to see the fist hit the face?

And I remember reading in an interview early in the year that Keysi would once again be apart of the fight sequences.

 

[Figs]

I understood Nolan's purpose for the fight scenes, and I absolutely loved them. Batman is not Jackie Chan. He doesn't dazzle his enemies with jumping spinning back kicks and triple round houses like there is someone watching ("beater entertain the innocent bystander wtaching me kick the crap out of this drug dealer or else I wont get a good rep in Gotham"). Batman's objective is to get the job done as quickly as possible for him, and Begins showed that. IMO, Keysi with the camera pulled back enough to see both fighters completely in camera view would look stupid and silly, and the impact that we got from the fighting scenes in Begins would be clearly absent.

Honestly, so what if we don't see Batman throw the punch, or cnnect with the punch? Do we really need to see every move in order to accept Batman as a great fighter? Is he any less of a fighter because we didn't see the punch? He still knocked the guy the **** out, he's obviously a great, strong fighter, so why is it so important to see the fist hit the face?

And I remember reading in an interview early in the year that Keysi would once again be apart of the fight sequences.

I'm not asking for the shots to be panned out a lot. I would like them to be panned out just alittle. Just enough to see more connected punches or kicks. I did like were Nolan's head was at with what he wanted to do with the fights but he over did it. I just hope he pulls back just a little. I don't mind the quick cuts, so long as you see more.

 

[gqxsensazn]

I don't think people want to see HK style but at least show Batman's skills. The behind the scenes look at the Keysi Fighting Method on the Batman Begins DVD was great because when they showed the choreography, there were no quick cuts. You saw exactly how the stuntmen moved and where they went. I was hoping TDK would do the same thing.

 

[Saint]

Does Nolan know about about the the arbitrary percentage I just pulled out of thin air?

 

[Crook]

I understood Nolan's purpose for the fight scenes, and I absolutely loved them. Batman is not Jackie Chan. He doesn't dazzle his enemies with jumping spinning back kicks and triple round houses like there is someone watching ("beater entertain the innocent bystander wtaching me kick the crap out of this drug dealer or else I wont get a good rep in Gotham"). Batman's objective is to get the job done as quickly as possible for him, and Begins showed that.

That's great, but this has nothing to do with what anyone said here.

IMO, Keysi with the camera pulled back enough to see both fighters completely in camera view would look stupid and silly, and the impact that we got from the fighting scenes in Begins would be clearly absent.

Praytell, what would make it "silly" as you put it? Have you seen Bourne Identity? The fight scenes were practical, quick, and brutal. Yet they managed to do all of this w/o having to literally put the cameras in between the fighters and shake 'em a bit.

Honestly, so what if we don't see Batman throw the punch, or cnnect with the punch? Do we really need to see every move in order to accept Batman as a great fighter? Is he any less of a fighter because we didn't see the punch? He still knocked the guy the **** out, he's obviously a great, strong fighter, so why is it so important to see the fist hit the face?

Considering we're watching a movie, yes I'd say it's pretty damn important to show something. Would you have been content with a scene showing Bats pouncing on a group of thugs, fade to black, and the next shot we see is them lying on the floor? For every scene?

I accepted the camera method for the docks scene, but there was no need to apply it to the subsequent fights. We got the point the first time.

 

[El Payaso]

Batman's objective is to get the job done as quickly as possible for him, and Begins showed that.

The problem is precisely that Batman Begins didn't show a damn thing.

IMO, Keysi with the camera pulled back enough to see both fighters completely in camera view would look stupid and silly, and the impact that we got from the fighting scenes in Begins would be clearly absent.

Only impact I had was the impact to know the best Batman scenes were almost unexistant and I got better shots of the main character from the promo pictures than the actual movie.

Besides, Nolan used the same editing for the fights before Bruce was Batman (at the very beginning of the movie) and for the Tumbler chase and I doubt the Tumbler had any ninja training.

And, as someone else said, too many action movies prove you wrong.

Honestly, so what if we don't see Batman throw the punch, or cnnect with the punch?

It becomes boring, uninteresting and tiresome to watch. It's like having a Superman movie and being unable to see Superman flying or saving the plane.

Do we really need to see every move in order to accept Batman as a great fighter?

Or do we need a movie at all if we have the comics?

We certainly do need to watch what is going on on the screen. What kind of a question is that.

Is he any less of a fighter because we didn't see the punch?

The movie is a lot more boring and unexciting by it. That's the point.

He still knocked the guy the **** out, he's obviously a great, strong fighter, so why is it so important to see the fist hit the face?

Once again, if Nolan can inform us verbally at some comic con what Batman is like, why even making/watching the movie at all?

But if we're going to have a movie we better be able to see what is happening. That's the basics of the basics.

 

[The Mighty Wind]

Does Nolan know about about the the arbitrary percentage I just pulled out of thin air?

My thoughts exactly.

I for one, really, really dug the Begins fight scenes. It was nice not to have a blatantly staged fight pandered to me for once, and, in a theatre, I actually did feel the chaos and fear that the fights created.

 

[Saint]

I want a bit of both

With common thugs have the BB fight/jump scenes

With Joker and his thugs show a bit more fighting (pull the camera back a bit)

Agreed. I absolutely love the first fight sequence, where you only catch glimpses of Batman as he takes out the thugs. I thought it worked very well given the nature of that sequence.

The second fight scene--at the Asylum--was less successful.It felt like we were supposed to be able to tell what was happening, but the camera was so close up it was impossible. I did like the organization of that scene, though, with Batman dropping in and out of the darkness to take people down.

The third fight--with the ninjas--was the most traditional fight scene, and probably the most enjoyable, but the close-in camera still hurt it somewhat. I think this is the best fight because it maintains the spirit of the others: Batman it still dealing out punishment quickly, efficiently, and brutally, but the we can actually see it this time. He absolutely dismantles the ninjas, and I get excited every time I watch this fight. I think Nolan demonstrated here that Batman can be shown to be quick and explosive without having to obscure what the audience sees.

For the third film, I'd like an expansion on that philosophy. One short sequence like the fight at the docks would be nice, but with the other fights there's no reason Nolan can't show us what's happening while maintaining the same feeling of quickness and brutality. Like Drexx mentioned, the fights in Bourne managed to balance this very well, while Batman Begins did not do as great a job. I think Nolan deserves a pass, though, because it was his first action film. Hopefully he will have learned from the experience.

 

[Cowleen]

I actually had to see the movie twice for this very reason. Some of the things happened so fast I felt like I missed something. The thied time was strictly pleasure.

 

[Saint]

Agreed. I absolutely love the first fight sequence, where you only catch glimpses of Batman as he takes out the thugs. I thought it worked very well given the nature of that sequence.

The second fight scene--at the Asylum--was less successful.It felt like we were supposed to be able to tell what was happening, but the camera was so close up it was impossible. I did like the organization of that scene, though, with Batman dropping in and out of the darkness to take people down.

The third fight--with the ninjas--was the most traditional fight scene, and probably the most enjoyable, but the close-in camera still hurt it somewhat. I think this is the best fight because it maintains the spirit of the others: Batman it still dealing out punishment quickly, efficiently, and brutally, but the we can actually see it this time. He absolutely dismantles the ninjas, and I get excited every time I watch this fight. I think Nolan demonstrated here that Batman can be shown to be quick and explosive without having to obscure what the audience sees.

For the third film, I'd like an expansion on that philosophy. One short sequence like the fight at the docks would be nice, but with the other fights there's no reason Nolan can't show us what's happening while maintaining the same feeling of quickness and brutality. Like Drexx mentioned, the fights in Bourne managed to balance this very well, while Batman Begins did not do as great a job. I think Nolan deserves a pass, though, because it was his first action film. Hopefully he will have learned from the experience.

Just to illustrate my point, everyone should watch this clip of the Bourne fights: http://youtube.com/watch?v=NGrOXoQ8pkk

Like I said, these fights have the same feeling as Begins, but we can actually see what's happening. This is how the fights in TDK should be.

 

[CConn]

Agreed. I absolutely love the first fight sequence, where you only catch glimpses of Batman as he takes out the thugs. I thought it worked very well given the nature of that sequence.

The second fight scene--at the Asylum--was less successful.It felt like we were supposed to be able to tell what was happening, but the camera was so close up it was impossible. I did like the organization of that scene, though, with Batman dropping in and out of the darkness to take people down.

The third fight--with the ninjas--was the most traditional fight scene, and probably the most enjoyable, but the close-in camera still hurt it somewhat. I think this is the best fight because it maintains the spirit of the others: Batman it still dealing out punishment quickly, efficiently, and brutally, but the we can actually see it this time. He absolutely dismantles the ninjas, and I get excited every time I watch this fight. I think Nolan demonstrated here that Batman can be shown to be quick and explosive without having to obscure what the audience sees.

For the third film, I'd like an expansion on that philosophy. One short sequence like the fight at the docks would be nice, but with the other fights there's no reason Nolan can't show us what's happening while maintaining the same feeling of quickness and brutality. Like Drexx mentioned, the fights in Bourne managed to balance this very well, while Batman Begins did not do as great a job. I think Nolan deserves a pass, though, because it was his first action film. Hopefully he will have learned from the experience.

What about that opening fight with Bruce in prison?

Honestly, I thought that was the most glaringly close-up'd of the fight scenes. It just seemed so out of place and unnecessary.

 

[Bond]

Just to illustrate my point, everyone should watch this clip of the Bourne fights: http://youtube.com/watch?v=NGrOXoQ8pkk

Like I said, these fights have the same feeling as Begins, but we can actually see what's happening. This is how the fights in TDK should be.

Damn I love that movie. I might watch it tonight.

And I agree, I'd love for the fight scenes in TDK to be like that.

Now The Bourne Supremacy on the other hand...

 

[Saint]

What about that opening fight with Bruce in prison?

Honestly, I thought that was the most glaringly close-up'd of the fight scenes. It just seemed so out of place and unnecessary.

I don't really count that one because it was only a few seconds, but actually I like it. I don't really feel like I need to see that one in complete detail; I prefer just to feel the impact and hear the crunch of it, being an ultra-violent prison fight.

Also, I absolutely love the shot of them rolling down the hill at the beginning.

 

[The Only Woj]

the position of the camera was not the problem. the cutting between shots was. because there were obvious time gaps removed between shots. things happened quicker than they would in reality. this is most evident in the train fight with Ra's, since it was a continuous fight (not like the quick hits to take out the thugs ... which I was fine with). also in the docks fight with Falcone's men ... it was used for effect, but I'd rather have seen the same choreography but in real-time rather than hyper-editing time. yeah, Batman is quick, but not unrealistically so. plus, we've got a real world setting. why not real world fight time?

 

[Figs]

I don't really count that one because it was only a few seconds, but actually I like it. I don't really feel like I need to see that one in complete detail; I prefer just to feel the impact and hear the crunch of it, being an ultra-violent prison fight.

Also, I absolutely love the shot of them rolling down the hill at the beginning.

I also like the prison fight, especially since I've had to use that move where he kicked himself back when he was being held from behind in a real fight. Used it to knock someone into the wall behind us, loosened his grip enough so my skinny ass was able to get out of his grip.

On another note.......someone should change the thread title from Knows to Know.

 

[chintai80]

Just to illustrate my point, everyone should watch this clip of the Bourne fights: http://youtube.com/watch?v=NGrOXoQ8pkk

Like I said, these fights have the same feeling as Begins, but we can actually see what's happening. This is how the fights in TDK should be.

Those Bourne Identity fights are awesome. The part where Damon is falling down the spiral staircase w/ the fat dude remind you of the arkham scene from Begins?

They should've made the fight scenes like this in Begins. Let's hope for TDK...

 

[CConn]

I don't really count that one because it was only a few seconds, but actually I like it. I don't really feel like I need to see that one in complete detail; I prefer just to feel the impact and hear the crunch of it, being an ultra-violent prison fight.

Also, I absolutely love the shot of them rolling down the hill at the beginning.

It all seemed much too close up to me.

I mean, as you said, in the scenes he's Batman, there's some actual reason why there'd be low visibility; either to show the...mystery of Batman as well as, something like in the train, which is supposed to be a very claustrophobic fight.

But with the prison scenes, there's no reason at all while it had to have been shot so close up. I mean, they were out in the open, in broad daylight, I'm sure there's better ways of showing the brutality of a fight without making the viewer feel like he's missing 80% of what's happening.

 

[CConn]

I also like the prison fight, especially since I've had to use that move where he kicked himself back when he was being held from behind in a real fight. Used it to knock someone into the wall behind us, loosened his grip enough so my skinny ass was able to get out of his grip.

On another note.......someone should change the thread title from Knows to Know.

Um, I'm talking about the cinematography. Not the choreography of the fight. The fight was great, I agree. I'd just would've preferred more of it to be shown.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Nolan doesn't "knows" because he's intelligent and uses correct grammar.

A public service announcement from your friendly neighborhood GrammarBatman.

 

[CConn]

Oh dammit, I forgot the joke...

Who knows?

 

[Comic Book Boy]

Does Nolan know that over 50 percent of the general movie audience and comic book fans never liked the fighting of batman begins? Seriously speaking, The fighting and action needed much much work. To me batman begins was a bit slow paced in terms of the action however, it seems like right in the beginning of the dark knight we get to see joker wilding out. Hopefully Nolan as a director progress in terms of directing action and fighting. We haven't heard any news on how the fighting will be, and heck who the hell in the movie is going to be physically challenging to batman. I hope we get to see batman show off his acrobatic skills and I hope this film is bigger and better. According to the Nolan's we will see batman's detective side. Hopefully the batpod will emerge from the tumbler. Right before the tumbler gets blown up now that will be sweet. Joker blowing up the tumbler would be even more awesome. Joker's ride having nos would be even more awesome. The only thing that concerns me is the fighting and action. I know the storyline will be nice, but it will be nice to see that we get the full package, crazy storyline, humor, crazy action and a sick ass twist. Live on the bat!!!!!!!!

Nolan's got an excellent sense about how to handle action. I thought the action in BEGINS was perfect. He has talked about it at length on the DVD. It was fast, brutal, and gritty. Remember, "this is not a dance."

 

[D.P.]

The hell?

The kensei (sp?) style looks perfect with the camera panned out...

I think there's some "making of" clip from the dvd where they're practicing it...It looks good.

You can find it on youtube.

I always thought nolan was trying to hide the fact that the suit isn't so mobile.

 

[BatoutofHell]

Does Nolan know that over 50 percent of the general movie audience and comic book fans never liked the fighting of batman begins? Seriously

Well, based on my exit polls, the number is closer to around 44.7%, with a +/- 3% Margin of error.

 

[CConn]

Nolan's got an excellent sense about how to handle action. I thought the action in BEGINS was perfect. He has talked about it at length on the DVD. It was fast, brutal, and gritty. Remember, "this is not a dance."

Did you care to read Saint's post on the subject?

There are other ways to make fight scenes fast, brutal, and gritty without reducing them to what Nolan did. He had a good intent, but went to an extreme, IMO.

 

[Steelsheen]

i think Nolan is aware of the fan reaction. if i didnt know better i think Nolan considers himself a Batfan by now.