The Dark Knight Intensity of Fight sequences in TDK!

[robzass]

Does Nolan know that over 50 percent of the general movie audience and comic book fans never liked the fighting of batman begins?

Wow! Really? you have statistical proof of this? I was never asked for my opinion!

 

[the_monk]

Yeah, I was referring to you, but it also applies to anyone else. No one here is complaining about the fighting style, but rather the method of filming it. They're 2 completely different things.

Also, everyone here pretty much knows why Nolan filmed it that way. The point isn't lost, especially on a forum dedicated to this franchise. Some people just simply don't agree with the filming style. Doesn't have (at least in this thread) much to do with Keysi or whatnot.

I wasn't talking just about the fighting style though. I was mostly referring to the way it was shot. You're not meant to see much of what's going on, so the camera is tight on torsos and limbs, and Batman is moving around the frame all the while. Trust me, you pull that camera out and suddenly Batman looks a hell of a lot slower. He'll look like Michael Keaton did, which is the basically the agility of a Mattel action figure.

 

[Doc Samson]

It seems a lot of people are thinking he shot the action sequences terribly and then tried to use an excuse to cover it up or something? Personally, I feel that's how it should look. He's essentially a ninja anyway (at least in Nolan's world) so every kick and punch doesn't need to be seen. I really felt this made the action more gritty and intense as opposed to the very smooth "ballet" type of fighting we usually get...

 

[Crook]

I wasn't talking just about the fighting style though. I was mostly referring to the way it was shot. You're not meant to see much of what's going on, so the camera is tight on torsos and limbs, and Batman is moving around the frame all the while. Trust me, you pull that camera out and suddenly Batman looks a hell of a lot slower. He'll look like Michael Keaton did, which is the basically the agility of a Mattel action figure.

Well with the new suit, it should remedy that problem. It supposedly was already solved in BB, people have claimed the suit moved fine in the extras.

 

[the_monk]

Well with the new suit, it should remedy that problem. It supposedly was already solved in BB, people have claimed the suit moved fine in the extras.

He'd still look slow if the camera pulled back. It adds to his mystery.

And you're right, I just saw the other thread. That might have been a better place for this discussion.

 

[The Batman]

Nolan's got an excellent sense about how to handle action. I thought the action in BEGINS was perfect. He has talked about it at length on the DVD. It was fast, brutal, and gritty. Remember, "this is not a dance."

I fail to see how that line has anything to do with how nolan *****ed up the camera during action scenes

 

[CConn]

How did Nolan get the job of director. Did WB approach him or did he ask? How does that normally work? Is he even a huge Batman fan?

WB was looking for directors and pitches to new Batman movies. Nolan came up with a pitch, and got the job based on that.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I fail to see how that line has anything to do with how nolan *****ed up the camera during action scenes

I think he's trying to say that that was Nolan's philosiphy on fight scenes, and that he was trying to give the feeling of speed, panic, brutality, and grittiness in the fights.

I sort of added some of my own opinions in there, but yeah.

 

[The Batman]

I think he's trying to say that that was Nolan's philosiphy on fight scenes, and that he was trying to give the feeling of speed, panic, brutality, and grittiness in the fights.

I sort of added some of my own opinions in there, but yeah.

And yet i still dont see how crappy camera shots factor into conveying that...

 

[The Kid]

I wish I could say the suit was the reason the fights were edited like crap, but that mud fight does not help support that reasoning.

 

[lujho]

I wish I could say the suit was the reason the fights were edited like crap, but that mud fight does not help support that reasoning.

Nor does the crap editing/framing throughout the entirety of the film, fights scenes and non-fight scenes alike.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

I wish I could say the suit was the reason the fights were edited like crap, but that mud fight does not help support that reasoning.

He wasn't wearing the suit during the mud prison fight. But I hope the fight scenes for TDK are brutal, gritty, and the camera is pulled back that way we can see the intensity of the fight itself.

I truly want to see a violent fight that ends with Batman pounding the living piss out of the Joker.

 

[smatt584]

I personally would have liked a little better view of the action. I can see how he would want the air of mystery for the first attacks so that we can see how the criminals see him, but after that, it just gets annoying. Just like the Bourne series, too close and quick makes it so that you can't tell anymore who's hitting what.

 

[Crook]

Bourned Ultimatum, I can see the complaint. The first film was fine in depicting action though. In fact, I'd even say it's ideal for a Batman movie.

 

[lujho]

Question: why, in the scene in the bat-cave where Batman glides to and/or from the batmobile, is the framing so close-up? Like from the shoulders up? It's a grand, graceful, majestic motion, it should be seen as such. There's no-one else around so it's not any BS about showing things from crook's perspective, which is the automatic defense of the framing and editing of the film.

There's another scene towards the end of the film where Batman glides towards the camera and then lands in a fairly tight shot. It's in 2 shots when it so desperately feels like it should be in 1. It's like the middle part of one longer shot has been cut out, creating an annoying jump.

Those are just 2 minor things but the whole film is like that. Nolan simply does not seem to want to balance close-up, choppy action with longer, smoother takes. It's just, IMO just a fundamentally huge mistake, not to show the grand, romantic, heroic aspect of Batman in contrast to the shaky and confusing stuff.

 

[NoirMan82]

I think Nolan should shoot the fights similar to how BB was, but at a few frames slower. Whenever a big hit is delivered the camera should pan back some so we really get a look at the brutality.

 

[spideyman101]

I say put close quick shots about 60 percent of the time and wide slow shots about 30 percent.

 

[Daredevil_2003]

I just want to be able to see what's going on. Say what you will about the rest of the film, but that brawl between Batman and the thugs in the bank from Batman Forever was more entertaining than any of the hand to hand stuff in Begins mainly because I could actually see what was happening, combined with the good choreography that scene is my favorite fight of any live-action Batman.

 

[El Payaso]

Question: why, in the scene in the bat-cave where Batman glides to and/or from the batmobile, is the framing so close-up? Like from the shoulders up? It's a grand, graceful, majestic motion, it should be seen as such. There's no-one else around so it's not any BS about showing things from crook's perspective, which is the automatic defense of the framing and editing of the film.

Absolutely. Just bad editing. Same goes for the first fight against the "I am the Devil" guy and several parts of the Tumbler chase. And in that early fight, Bruce wasn't trained as a nija and neither was the Tumbler I'm sure.

 

[Marvin]

in the comics it's said he knows all (127 according to dc) and uses either what he needs to for the certain situation...or he's merged them into his own quasi style

i'm not sure what he was using in the movie...but whatever it was nolan didn't let anyone see

personally i think bats should use Akido

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besides the obvious effectiveness weather it be group battles or what not

this way he doesn't have do do jackie chan flips and can be as regal and overpowering...he does wear a cape after all
(akido is what samurai use when they don't have their swords in hand...stevie segal used it...it's up there with the best styles)

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[JosephMaximus]

The whole point of Batman's fighting style is it's his own. He intentionally trained in various martial arts and fighting techniques which made an amalgam of mixed martial arts. Any one technique has it's pros and cons, is good in certain scenarios, etc.

That's the beauty of the Keysi fighting method that they incorporated into the first movie. It's down, dirty, has multiple influences, and is so in your face that you don't know what hit you. Which adds to the fear of Batman's persona and seemingly limitless ability/knowledge.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

they'll use KFM (Keysi Fighting Method). that style was made for Batman

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

they'll use KFM (Keysi Fighting Method). that style was made for Batman

Cool. As long as they back the camera up a bit this time.

 

[sasquatchs]

Yea, Bale was spotted in a KFM t-shirt the other night walking to set. The thing is, the style they're going for isn't that cinematic anyway, if Batman doesn't beat each opponent in one move he's messed up. So he'll need to drop into large groups to have any kind of lasting fight, but with all these gangs that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[superkong 500]

I heard they'll use keysi and jet kune do this time around. I like keysi but I would actually like to see it and not just see flashes of it. It all depends in wether nolan decides to shot the fights with the camera pulled back and not extreme close-ups and if he decides to edit them in a way that it doesn't look choppy.