The Dark Knight Intensity of Fight sequences in TDK!

[Figs]

In order to achieve that it seems the only way would be not to show a thing, like in BB. If for not showing things, anything is possible that way.

Don't ever make movies El Payaso. Not with a closed mind like that. C'mon, to achieve the affect to make a fight not look choreographed does not mean you have to do it the BB way. As far as the not show a thing like in BB, . In my very first post I mentioned that all he really needed to do was pull the camera back some more. As far as the fast cuts, I didn't have a problem with it. With both BB and Transformers I kept hearing people ***** and moan that they couldn't make out what was going on. I don't get it, they/you either need glasses or need some kind of prescription for the ADD problem, must not have been able to keep your eyes on the screen the whole time. For both movies I could tell what was going on in every fight with out a problem. The argument of "I couldn't see a damn thing" is overdone and falls on deaf ears when it comes to me at this point. Like I said before keep the quick cuts but pull the camera back so you can see more of the punches and kicks actually connectng with people.

 

[El Payaso]

Don't ever make movies El Payaso. Not with a closed mind like that. C'mon, to achieve the affect to make a fight not look choreographed does not mean you have to do it the BB way. As far as the not show a thing like in BB, . In my very first post I mentioned that all he really needed to do was pull the camera back some more.

So we basically agree and yet you throw me those comments. Barking at the wrong tree. The quote of me you have there was about other poster in here. The one who said: 'If he [Nolan] were to show more of the actual technique, it would take on the choreographed look and thus turned into the "ballet"'

That's why I said that it seemed to be impossible to do it differently. Because of course I think it could be done but I was questioning that statement I quoted.

As far as the fast cuts, I didn't have a problem with it. With both BB and Transformers I kept hearing people ***** and moan that they couldn't make out what was going on. I don't get it, they/you either need glasses or need some kind of prescription for the ADD problem, must not have been able to keep your eyes on the screen the whole time. For both movies I could tell what was going on in every fight with out a problem.

Good for you, I was sad to confirm that the last fight in BB was nothing but a blur until I got the dvd and pressed the frame-by-frame button just to find out there were very good shots inserted there. The climatic fight in BB was a too long blurry shake. And therefore, tiring, not exciting. I've not seen Transformers yet, but as an average action movie maker I don't doubt Bay did the same for the action.

The argument of "I couldn't see a damn thing" is overdone

And yet, true.

and falls on deaf ears when it comes to me at this point.

You're unable to listen. Thanks for the admission. I kinda noticed when you told me not to make movies and called me close-minded when i was agreeing with you.

Like I said before keep the quick cuts but pull the camera back so you can see more of the punches and kicks actually connectng with people.

Don't ever make movies, you're close-minded. In order to make good fights you have to: keep the quick cuts but pull the camera back so you can see more of the punches and kicks actually connectng with people.

Makes any sense?

 

[Figs]

So we basically agree and yet you throw me those comments. Barking at the wrong tree. The quote of me you have there was about other poster in here. The one who said: 'If he [Nolan] were to show more of the actual technique, it would take on the choreographed look and thus turned into the "ballet"'

Aren't you saying though that in order for it not to have a choreographed look it would have to be the, as you put it, blurry messy fights in BB? I'm simply saying that there is a middle ground, the shots don't have to be that close which makes certain people have a hard time telling whats going on. They also don't have to be done like most traditional fights in most movies. You can reach a middle ground to film a fight scene without those two outcomes.


That's why I said that it seemed to be impossible to do it differently. Because of course I think it could be done but I was questioning that statement I quoted.

Sorry, I didn't get that you were questioning the other person.


Good for you, I was sad to confirm that the last fight in BB was nothing but a blur until I got the dvd and pressed the frame-by-frame button just to find out there were very good shots inserted there. The climatic fight in BB was a too long blurry shake. And therefore, tiring, not exciting. I've not seen Transformers yet, but as an average action movie maker I don't doubt Bay did the same for the action.

I still don't get how some people couldn't make out anything in the fights. To me it wasn't blurry, it was cut extremely fast but like I said before if the camera were pulled back enough for the right shots, I don't think anyone would have had any kind of problem with seeing what was happening. I just don't think it was as bad as people make it out to be.


And yet, true.

Well, that's your opinion. With that being said, your going to tell me that you coulnd't make out at all any of his punches or kicks? Or when he pulled out his grapple gun when fighting a few members of the league of shadows??

You're unable to listen. Thanks for the admission. I kinda noticed when you told me not to make movies and called me close-minded when i was agreeing with you.

Like I just responed above, I took your statement the wrong way when I read your response to the other poster. Sorry, I thought you were being a smartass on the other side of the arguement.


Don't ever make movies, you're close-minded. In order to make good fights you have to: keep the quick cuts but pull the camera back so you can see more of the punches and kicks actually connectng with people.

Makes any sense?

It does now.

 

[reallyhateswork]

i dont want to see something that looks too much like a set piece fight scene, batman should be able on screen to take out usual goons with 1 punch, the more people he fights the choppier the scenes get- like b89 in the alley - that was a reasonable fight as less villains etc. and we were with batman as he did the action right..

I agree the warehouse fight worked and the fight with Scarecrow(guys foot gets shot and batman flies in the air holding someone)

All a bit too dark though - i was lucky to see it on a lighter screen that night

 

[thegameq]

Too down and dirty for the same Batman from BB? That guy was basically a glorified street fighter. That's what made it so awesome. A welcome relief from the Schrumacher "fight scenes."

Visualize a Casino Royale, Bourne type one on one with Batman. Remember, the goal is realism and factor in the cape. Also, factor in close quarter fighting.

Essentially you end up with (appropriately) a brawl. Not to say that Batman can't brawl, but within the context of Nolan's film and for Batman's sake, I can't see it.

For Nolan to actually show Batman take on a crowd of henchmen he will have to use some degree of stylized technique which would lead inevitably to the choreographed fight look.

In other words Nolan's technique for the first film, though jarring and annoying at times helped to avoid the choreographed fight look.

 

[El Payaso]

I don't think anyone would have had any kind of problem with seeing what was happening.

You did see the poll right?

 

[thegameq]

He's not saying its impossible to do a good fight scene, he just wants one that looks realistic and not set up/choreographed(sp?).

I'm not a huge fan of Nolan's vision, but I definitely understand what he was trying to accomphlish with his film. I think the technique used in one of the Batman fan films--I believe it was Dark Justice, showed a promising take on what a realistic Batman fight would look like. Mind you, it was still obviously choreographed, but the look and feel of the fight felt more down to earth, for lack of a better description.

 

[kedrell]

I'm sorry, THIS is the best. Learn, Nolan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o-q_NRcZbQ


This one includes best use of a rubber armor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1eFdUSnaQM

LMAO!

I'll do you one better:

Best fight scene in martial arts movie history!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVUcwluSOpc

If Bats fights like this then we're gold, I tells ya! Gold!

 

[StylishHokie21]

As far as the fast cuts, I didn't have a problem with it. With both BB and Transformers I kept hearing people ***** and moan that they couldn't make out what was going on. I don't get it, they/you either need glasses or need some kind of prescription for the ADD problem, must not have been able to keep your eyes on the screen the whole time.

You're joking right? You could hardly tell who was fighting who in Transformers. BB had fast cuts in almost every action scene.

 

[Figs]

You're joking right? You could hardly tell who was fighting who in Transformers. BB had fast cuts in almost every action scene.

I saw Transformers with my gf and two of my younger sisters. Not one of us had a problem telling who was who in the fight scenes. All im saying is Nolan only needs to pull back the camera. If you slow down the fights too much it's going to look way to choreographed and be like every other movie.

 

[Figs]

You did see the poll right?

Of course I saw the poll. All I have to say is most of them most likely want your average used in every other movie kind of fight scenes. Not that that's a bad thing, I still like them. It's just Nolan is trying something different, he's taking a chance to do something new. Maybe he'll slow everything down and go the traditional route if he's gotten wind of all the complaining. I just think the fights will be near perfect if he just pulls the camera back to show more. You slow them down your just going to show how choreographed they are, like most other fight scenes.

 

[The Mighty Wind]

Not when it comes to Joker.


Minor thugs and lackeys? Fine. I want to see it from their perspective. But not the major villains.

That's abouit my opinion, and that's what I felt it was in BB. During the train scene with Ra's, while it was still up close, it was easy enough for me to follow and get into, outside of that, I totally dig the "from the shadows" feel.

 

[1981]

I thought the fight scene in the train was pretty bad. Maybe the strong lack of moment from the suit has something to do with it. That and Nolan isn't an experienced action director. Maybe he's heard the various complaints and will change it up a bit.

That and a better edited chase scene.

 

[Changeling]

i wanna see a new style

 

[El Payaso]

I saw Transformers with my gf and two of my younger sisters. Not one of us had a problem telling who was who in the fight scenes. All im saying is Nolan only needs to pull back the camera. If you slow down the fights too much it's going to look way to choreographed and be like every other movie.

Maybe Transformwers is better. Haven't seen it yet.

BNut surely as respectable as it is, we need more than your gf and sisters' opinions.

Of course I saw the poll. All I have to say is most of them most likely want your average used in every other movie kind of fight scenes.

Is that what you think? Cool. What they actually think according to the option and what is written is that they didn't see a thing. Even when you think that's impossible, it happens. I know, incredible.

Not that that's a bad thing, I still like them. It's just Nolan is trying something different, he's taking a chance to do something new.

"New" is not the same as "good" or "effective". Not in the dictionary, not in movies.

Maybe he'll slow everything down and go the traditional route if he's gotten wind of all the complaining. I just think the fights will be near perfect if he just pulls the camera back to show more. You slow them down your just going to show how choreographed they are, like most other fight scenes.

There's no need to slow at all.

 

[combusticator]

I actually LOVED the first fight scene when Batman first attacked at the docks, giving more the point of view of the criminal, and the fact it for the very first time actually made Batman himself kinda freaky, which was something no other film has done yet imo.

BUT that first one left me wanting for more, and the payoff with Ras' thugs at the end didn't quite do it for me.

That was honestly my only complaint about the movie (well, that and Katie Holmes), but those were small complaints.

I hope he makes them more visible! Even the fight in prison at the beginning was more visible and easier to follow lol, so I know Nolan can do it.

 

[El Payaso]

I actually LOVED the first fight scene when Batman first attacked at the docks, giving more the point of view of the criminal, and the fact it for the very first time actually made Batman himself kinda freaky, which was something no other film has done yet imo.

BUT that first one left me wanting for more, and the payoff with Ras' thugs at the end didn't quite do it for me.

That was honestly my only complaint about the movie (well, that and Katie Holmes), but those were small complaints.

I hope he makes them more visible! Even the fight in prison at the beginning was more visible and easier to follow lol, so I know Nolan can do it.

Exacrly. The docks scene was awesome. The shaky camera device to give us the criminal POV is not bad at all if used smartly. But it becomes aweful if you use for every single fight with nno discrimination. Criminals pov shuldn't be more imprtant than audience's pov.

 

[CristiMAN]

keep the style... it made it look unique...

 

[Kleric]

I liked the KFM, it suited Bat's. I also think there is a voyeur and visceral satisfaction to watching Batman fight and seeing it clearly. Don’t get me wrong, the criminal point of view was a nice touch at first. However I agree with El Payaso that we have evolved beyond that and want to see The Bat hand out some ass woopin.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I just saw the Bourne Ultimatum last night, and about halfway through the film Bourne has an amazing fight scene with another assassin. It was brutal, it was fast paced, and it was everything that a Batman fight scene should be. The camera did cut around quick so you got the feeling of "being" in the fight, but not so much to where you couldn't understand what was going on. You could still see how the fight progressed. That's how they should film the fights in TDK. If they can get a fight scene as good as the one in Bourne Ultimatum, then I'll be very happy.

 

[Mr. Superhero]

Anyone can pick up a camera and move it around like an insane lunatic. I hope they change the style in TDK--but I sincerely doubt that they will....just for continuinty sake.

 

[CristiMAN]

I think people here want that awful fighting type like daredevil... At least Nolan doesnt come here at all... I've said before and will say it again: Keep it like BB as it did look unique and brutal. And that really is important. It worked for me. Why change? I've even seen peoplo asking for a new batmobile! Whats next? A new director? Maybe niples on the suit? geez...

 

[roach]

No people just want to see whats going on.
How was it unique if they are copying the same style from the Bourne films????
But that is the big thing. It worked for you but it didnt work for the 137 people who voted in this poll.

 

[TheDarkVictory]

If they did bullet time, I would never, ever watch another Nolan film again. He is faaaaaar too talented and clever to resort to that. As for what style he should use, I for one didn't find anything too dizzying/disorienting about the editing style, but I do agree we need to see some wider shots of whats going on. From the special features on BB, it seems Bale put a ton of work into the fighting style, so he should get a chance to show off a little.

 

[aSyluM7]

I’ll play devil’s advocate. I liked the way it was shot/edited, its shot like a horror movie in the perspective of the victim. I think the aspect of the "choppy" edit technique adds mystery and a prey/predator animal intensity. Thats not to say there isn't room for improvement, they certainly can be improved on and made easier to follow. I think we can expect it to be better. If they do it the same in TDK as they did in BB, that’s ok. If they do show a little more and widen up some shots, that’s ok too. If they put it in slow motion or bullet time and have all wide shots, I'll grab the nearest living thing and hammer punch it in the clavicle.