The Dark Knight Intensity of Fight sequences in TDK!

[Crook]

I'd say TDK (and Begins) demonstrated that.

It was standard fighting fare. Asides from the docks scene, I don't really think anyone (outside the fanboys) would say, "My god, that guy can do anything with his fists and hands!".

As I said before, it wasn't all that impressive compared to what the potential could be.

 

[broblacksteel]

We all know TDK kicks all comic book movies when it comes to story and top gross...but who actually KICKED ass the best ON SCREEN??!! (btw can we find the guy started this whole shaky camera thing and beat him senseless??...)

1. Blade 1&2 are great examples of the type of fighting Batman is capable of and more.

2. Daredevil (director's cut), not all the fights were great..BUT we clearly saw daredevil kick more ass than bats and the fights were filmed better...imo.

3. Spiderman, NO he is not a martial artist but even when they didn't use a cgi spidey, the physical one/stunt double had good fights.

Bottom line is i WANT batman to win in every category (story, gross revenue, praise etc) and his fights deserve the same treatment the story gets. Oh well captain america can kick batmans ass anyway...lol...(hey don't get upset with me, BATMAN said so himself when they faced off in the comic...). I can guarantee that cap's fights will be better....but, as for the story??...who knows...

 

[hatebox]

It was standard fighting fare. Asides from the docks scene, I don't really think anyone (outside the fanboys) would say, "My god, that guy can do anything with his fists and hands!".

As I said before, it wasn't all that impressive compared to what the potential could be.

Well, it's certainly demonstrated that Batman's a great fighter much more than the previous films, though of course that's not saying much.

I'm not sure what people want, really. The tone of TDK was so, so different to the likes of Spider-Man, Blade or Daredevil I just don't see how the fights could be similar without there being a major discrepancy.

Is the fighting technique you don't like or the way it's shot? I expect you'll say 'both' but humor me...

 

[phillyboy]

I thought his fighting style was brutal, especially the swat scene at the end. The sound fx were just vicious, moreso than BB. You could definately hear that he had some power behind him. Why use a bunch of fast punches or kicks, when he can take them out with one brutal punch or elbow.

 

[8blades]

Fighting is just plain wrong in both batman movies. Batman is a fighter, he FIGHTS. You can't take it for granted or just ignore it. A MAJOR element of Batman is missing in these Nolan films.

 

[The Chris]

I like that Batman's attacks were much more focused on the power and force of the punch than the speed. Made the films fights still feel different than other film's fight scenes, because usually you see a dude do fancy and quick moves where as here you get to see Batman rear back and just knock a dude out with one punch or elbow.

 

[broblacksteel]

sorry...BUT both (part 1 BB too much shaky camera stuff, we really couldn't see what batman was doing, in TDK, the fights were boring or hidden in darkness).... I guess the bar is set so high due to the skills that batman demonstrates in the comic books and we got a sample of that in BB.

When u ask people what do they remember about the batman films, the FIGHTS are never in the top 3. Batman has a freakin suit so there is NO excuse to not put a bad ass stunt double in it and blow audiences away with his superior fighting skills.

If u want to see an example of what batman can do EVEN in Mr. Nolan's world...go to youtube and check out Scott Adkins in undisputed 2. (btw Scott is playing weapon X1/deadpool in the next wolverine movie....expect some great fights from him).

 

[XxShenanigans]

One thing I think you have to remember is he actually complains about his batsuit. ( which has to be extremely heavy and unflexible). Even after he gets the new suit it still can't be that easy to move in it which makes his blunt hardnose fighting seem more realistic as appose to him doing jumping high kicks to thugs heads.

Also if you remember in Batman Begins when he first shows up at Raz's and fights him. After some very showy moves by Wayne, Raz simple grabs him and says," this is not a dance," followed by a head butt. Raz taught him how to fight without wasted movement so I just can't picture Batman doing some crazy martial arts when he could simply drop a person by slamming them into something or landing a hard punch to the head, chest or gut.

 

[broblacksteel]

hey my friend, very valid point....i have to agree with you....

 

[The Shape]

It's a big deal because Batman is arguably one of the greatest fighters in the comic book lore. And yet, we don't have a single live-action film that displays this without resorting to camera tricks and rapid editing. Furthermore, the choreography themselves and the way the fight scenes are shot in all the films don't lend itself to really impress the audience.

So given that context, I'd say it's reasonably why fans would seek a mass improvement in this area.

This is subjective. The fight scenes were certainly a cop-out in Batman Begins, but the fights in TDK were a vast improvement, mainly because we could actually see what the **** was going on.

People that are complaining seem to be using a little too much hyperbole. I, for one, could see what was going on in TDK. Batman seemed liked a more brutal fighter than before. He was quick and landed some huge blows (I absolutely digged how loud the punching sounds were in TDK, almost like an Indy movie). He also took out multiple targets swiftly, which is attested to his training in Begins.

The only fight scene that can maybe warrant a complaint is the final fight against the SWAT team, which was intercutting with the sonar technology, and it was also in a darker setting.

I honestly believe the reason there are so many complaints about Batman being too slow, the fight choreography sucking, the editing being too quick, etc....is because in this day and age, we are so used to stylized, slow-motion fight sequences in movies. This has recently become the trend, and it's rare to see real-time action in an action film anymore, which is what we have in TDK. I'm not putting down slo-mo in any way. In fact, in can't wait to see how it works in Watcmen, but I also love the fighting in TDK. It was certainly an improvement over Begins, and presented Batman as a very formidable opponent.

 

[hatebox]

sorry...BUT both (part 1 BB too much shaky camera stuff, we really couldn't see what batman was doing, in TDK, the fights were boring or hidden in darkness).... I guess the bar is set so high due to the skills that batman demonstrates in the comic books and we got a sample of that in BB.

If batman did half the maneuvers he did in the comics on film it would look plain silly.

And I'm surprised some people haven't picked up on the fact that the camera was clearly panned out in TDK - I could see what was going on fine.

Audiences will come away from this movie thinking batman is a brtual, efficient fighter. Have no worries about that.

 

[hatebox]

I honestly believe the reason there are so many complaints about Batman being too slow, the fight choreography sucking, the editing being too quick, etc....is because in this day and age, we are so used to stylized, slow-motion fight sequences in movies. This has recently become the trend, and it's rare to see real-time action in an action film anymore, which is what we have in TDK. I'm not putting down slo-mo in any way. In fact, in can't wait to see how it works in Watcmen, but I also love the fighting in TDK. It was certainly an improvement over Begins, and presented Batman as a very formidable opponent.

Exactly. In fact Nolan is on record as saying that he didn't want his batman movies to be like The Matrix. He didn't want the fight scenes to be like complex dance routines.

 

[DeGenerate10]

I Repeat...

I would stain my pants if Batman 3 has a scene where Batman is infiltrating some sort of building. He looses the cape for this particular mission (because let's be honest it's not always an advantage to have that thing on.) He has a Samurai sword on his back and he just carves up whoever gets in his way with Some sick wide shot sword fights. OMG that would be so bad ass.

Someone Tell CN...this needs to happen

Oh God please DON'T tell this to Chris. This doesn't need to happen.

 

[Da Joker]

I actually liked the superfast editing of the fight scenes in BB and i could make out what was happening (to some extent) and they probably covered up a lot of choreographed scenes that way.
The only bad fight scene in TDK is the hong kong scene, it looks very choreographed, especially the part where he punches the guy down with the gun or something and then lifts the gun at his head level, looks at it and throws it away. That was robotic.
Other than that, Batman doesnt do ballet, he kicks ass. They explained batmans fighting style in the BB bonus features as why would batman do a triple flip kick when he could just headbutt a guy

 

[Infinity9999x]

I thought the fighting was fine in this movie, a definite improvement from the last one. The camera was panned back more, and I could actually tell what was going on in the scenes. Granted, there were some shots that were harder to make out, but overall I thought they were very well done.

 

[DeGenerate10]

Yeah, I agree...

I wasn't too impressed with the fights in this movie either, and I could still barely make out half of them.

Improved camera techniques, but fights that lacked punch.

Nolan just can't seem to get this right.

I believe that's what they're going for.

 

[unbanyuppi]

I've always liked the fight scenes
If you ever been in a scuffle you can relate to the choppiness of the fight scenes
I think Nolan is aiming the user to see what batman's opponents see.

He certainly can make a fight scene ALA Wayne vs Ras on ice.

Maybe I'm to easy to satisfy

 

[The Game]

Im just glad I could actually see Batman beating people up, because in Begins it was hard to make out with the camera spazzing out

 

[Crook]

Well, it's certainly demonstrated that Batman's a great fighter much more than the previous films, though of course that's not saying much.

I'm not sure what people want, really. The tone of TDK was so, so different to the likes of Spider-Man, Blade or Daredevil I just don't see how the fights could be similar without there being a major discrepancy.

Is the fighting technique you don't like or the way it's shot? I expect you'll say 'both' but humor me...

It's both. I appreciate that in TDK that Nolan pulled the camera back this time around, but it still shows his lack of direction when it comes to action. They were bland.

I honestly believe the reason there are so many complaints about Batman being too slow, the fight choreography sucking, the editing being too quick, etc....is because in this day and age, we are so used to stylized, slow-motion fight sequences in movies. This has recently become the trend, and it's rare to see real-time action in an action film anymore, which is what we have in TDK.

It has nothing to do with stylized or slow-mo. That's just ridiculous to assume considering no one's even suggested any fight scenes similar to Matrix or 300. I just want excitement when I watch Batman, and at times even make me go "ouch!" or "holy crap!". The Bourne series did a phenomenal job with this, and to a lesser extent, the Blade movies. There's no reason to think that the only way to shoot real and brutal action, is the way Nolan shot it.

Exactly. In fact Nolan is on record as saying that he didn't want his batman movies to be like The Matrix. He didn't want the fight scenes to be like complex dance routines.

When you actually hear people say they want Matrix and "complex dance routines", then you can bring this up.

 

[hatebox]

^ Frankly no-one's been too specific on what they actually would like. You mentioned Bourne but you could hardly say the fights in Begins were a million miles away from that, and I'm glad TDK didn't repeat that formula.

The batman in TDK came off to me as being brutal and efficient, which he should do. I think your main problem is that none of the fight scenes were iconic, but that's nothing new for the Batman franchise. I suppose when you don't have the luxury of a superpower to dazzle audiences with then that becomes harder.

Personally i thought the fight scene in the club was about as exhilarating as a short fight sequence could be but i guess you disagree.

 

[The Shape]

It has nothing to do with stylized or slow-mo. That's just ridiculous to assume considering no one's even suggested any fight scenes similar to Matrix or 300. I just want excitement when I watch Batman, and at times even make me go "ouch!" or "holy crap!". The Bourne series did a phenomenal job with this, and to a lesser extent, the Blade movies. There's no reason to think that the only way to shoot real and brutal action, is the way Nolan shot it.

You site the Bourne films as an example, but those fights scenes are notorious for being choppy, consisting of many more quick cuts than TDK's fights. So you can't really complain about the editing in TDK if you're into the Bourne series. It seems your gripe lies with the choreography, but I find that odd, because there are plenty of moments where Batman gives severe beatdowns, and you can feel it. His fighting methods are extremely effective, and his blows are intense.

 

[Crook]

^ Frankly no-one's been too specific on what they actually would like. You mentioned Bourne but you could hardly say the fights in Begins were a million miles away from that, and I'm glad TDK didn't repeat that formula.

The execution in Bourne was better. The shooting concepts were almost exactly the same, but the direction was superior, as was the awesome choreography.

The batman in TDK came off to me as being brutal and efficient, which he should do. I think your main problem is that none of the fight scenes were iconic, but that's nothing new for the Batman franchise. I suppose when you don't have the luxury of a superpower to dazzle audiences with then that becomes harder.

It lacked the dazzling visuals, I guess you could say.

Personally i thought the fight scene in the club was about as exhilarating as a short fight sequence could be but i guess you disagree.

You'd be right. Though to it's credit, it's probably the "best" fight scene in the movie. It flowed the best.

 

[The Chris]

One moment where he rams a one joker goon's head into another's arm, deflecting his shot in the process, was all sorts of bad ass.

 

[broblacksteel]

"HATEBOX" hit it on the head....BATMAN deserves an ICONIC fight scene....

Pull the camera back and let batman have the hand set skill like the bourne series, the agility of spiderman/daredevil and the bad ass finishing moves and kicks like the blade series. If we can get this then i am sure action and non martial arts fans will rave about more than the story, performances or who will be the next villian.

Hate to say this guys, BUT i think wolverine has a chance to do what batman didn't do...deliver some serious bad ass fight scenes!!! Of course fights are NOT everything (story is key and vital), but wolverine's previous fights on film suffered from the same blandness that bat's is experiencing....that is until 2009.

 

[Crook]

You site the Bourne films as an example, but those fights scenes are notorious for being choppy, consisting of many more quick cuts than TDK's fights. So you can't really complain about the editing in TDK if you're into the Bourne series.

The last 2 are notorious for it. First one isn't.

But even the third utilizing the handycam technique, the direction of the fight scenes didn't take the viewer out of the experience. I remember when I saw Ultimatum twice, both times in the theater people in the audience winced and ooh'd at several hits. That's what I want, fights that engage the audience rather than just "showing" it to them.

It seems your gripe lies with the choreography, but I find that odd, because there are plenty of moments where Batman gives severe beatdowns, and you can feel it. His fighting methods are extremely effective, and his blows are intense.

The basis for Keysi isn't what I have a problem with. As you noted, it's the choreography that's the problem for me. It just doesn't look as good as Krav Maga (Bourne).