Comics Is anyone else just not a big fan of ASM right now?

[CConn]

while i like how he is written and his new job, I am still having a hard time buying the book as the spider-man i grew up with. It just feels more like a ultimate universe sometimes with the Peter I grew up with giving way to one learning the same lessons i have already seen him learn with friends who already died.

That is a good point.

My...emotional connection to 616 Peter definitely became disconnected after OMD. And while there were certain arcs of BND that could sometimes spark some enthusiasm for the character from me, it definitely doesn't feel like the "real" Spider-Man.

And I don't even mean that in a logical or intelligent sense, purely on a visceral level, I don't quite care as much as I used to.

 

[JewishHobbit]

It not feeling like the "real" Spider-Man is my biggest gripe. Yes, it does feel more like Ultimate Spider-Man to me or some other alternate reality version. I've just come to terms that for the forseeable future while he is under Slott's pen or anyone else with connections to BND, and while Quesada is still in the position he is in... Spider-Man will remain a pale comparison to what he was from Amazing Fantasy 15 through Straczynski.

 

[CConn]

I actually didn't care for JMS' Spider-Man all that much either. I mean, the stories and characterizations were good for the most part, but the tone often didn't quite fit.

In recent memory, I most liked Peter David and Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa's work. Both of their runs were definitely hampered by editorial mandates, but I really liked their plotting, tone, and characterization.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I liked Straczynski's run. The only parts I didn't care for were Norman and Gwen having CONSENSUAL sex (his raping her would have been fine by me story-wise) and OMD. I thought everything else was great. I actually enjoyed the first issue of OMD but the second issue on killed me. I've enjoyed only two issues of Spider-Man since then.

 

[CConn]

Again, my problem with it was the tone for most of his run. Even early on with his Ezekiel arc, he seemed to interject a lot of mysticism and almost somber tone to the book. It seemed to have a dark edge to it. Enjoyable, but not quite the tone I prefer for Spider-Man.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I don't mind the dark edge to Spider-Man books, even like it, as long as it has a purpose and isn't overpowering. Straczynski balanced the dark and the light with Peter wonderfully through most of his run. It wasn't until Civil War that it got overly dark but the plot made it make a lot of sense and I think it was handled well through Back In Black (which I loved). I was eager to see his trip back but Marvel just skipped that step and ignored all of it.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

ASM is fantastic right now, IMO.

 

[CConn]

I don't mind the dark edge to Spider-Man books, even like it, as long as it has a purpose and isn't overpowering. Straczynski balanced the dark and the light with Peter wonderfully through most of his run. It wasn't until Civil War that it got overly dark but the plot made it make a lot of sense and I think it was handled well through Back In Black (which I loved). I was eager to see his trip back but Marvel just skipped that step and ignored all of it.

You're kinda missing my point. I don't mind a dark story...I loved Back in Black as well, but tone is something entirely different.

ASM is fantastic right now, IMO.

How can you have 47 thousand posts and I not know who you are?

 

[Doomed_hero]

i don't mind the darker tones i just feel that any real drama has been lost. I mean peter losing harry as well as the trails he ent through with M.J really added to his character and also the old rivalery with Norman had so much history and high stakes everytime they met. Now that history is all gone, Peter is relagted to the back seat whenever he goes up against Norman now(which irkes me to no end) and he is making the same mistakes with woman and and such that I have seen him make already. And this really is traced back to One More Day. The reason Peter is the most popular character at Marvel is cause he is a everyman. The drama he faces is in a way what we face. So when faced with the death of Aunt May rather then accept it and say goodbye to her. He gives up the love of his life and makes a deal with the devil? That is never a deal the Peter Parker I grew up reading would make and it has tainted the character to me ever since since that is what this new universe seems to be built on. While I find some of the new stories good reads like I said, its not the Peter Parker I grew up with.

 

[Themanofbat]

I could have said the same thing about Peter Parker not being the same as the one I grew up with pretty much from Micheline onward... I grew up on the Len Wein/Wolfman/Stern's Spider-Man... with Wolfman's run being the best one EVER behind Stan's with Roger Stern's being a close third... and if he can keep it up, I just might add Slott's run right up there... maybe Top Five...

However, I will say this about the "tainted" Spider-Man concept that everybody seems to use in regards as for their current disdain of the books... I'm not pointing the finger at anyone specifically, but I see it used a lot...

There have been many "decisions" that Peter Parker has made that we can agree/disagree that he would never do... the deal with Mephisto being the decision of this generation, while as far as I'm concerned, the numerous times he has let Venom (a known murderer) "go free" was something he would have never done in the past... however, when you look at the history of this hero, he has made numerous mistakes over the years, little ones that meant nothing, and much bigger ones that have cost lives... (letting Norman go because he was his BF's father... )... change is always what this book, and this character, has been about... otherwise, he would have become prosaic and nobody would care about Spidey beyond Stan's run...

The current Peter Parker will NEVER be the Peter Parker you grew up ith, unless you're currently growing up now... I've not read the Peter Parker I've grown up with since the early 80's, but that doesn't ean you can't just enjoy the books/stories for what they are...

Just my two cents...

 

[Spider-Gnome]

The thing is, Pete has seemed to have a natural progression up until OMD/BND. Yeah, Pete will not be the same as when you first start reading. For me, that would be the early 70's, just as Gobby killed Gwen. But, if you continue to read, he grows. So while he was different under JMS, I saw the organic growth of the character to get to that point.

Then you get Pete willingly make a deal with the devil that breaks his marriage vow. This, in my opinion trumps any of the questionable decisions he has made in his approx. 50 year history.

Then they regress Pete to a slacker loser that he never even was when he was in high school! I get the gripes about the character. Believe me, I was there.

But, I think Dan Slott has done a bang up job restoring Pete. He really gets the character and handles him a lot better around other heroes than he is in the Avengers books. Dan also seems to be making strides in restoring Pete & MJ's relationship. I know the marriage won't return, but I think Dan has a great handle on Pete & MJ's feelings at the current time.

 

[CConn]

I actually agree totally. Slott's done a great job of characterization and character progression that's really returned Peter to exactly where he should be at this point in his life.

I think the thing that leaves me cold to Slott's writing is the plotting. I generally like stories that are really epic - with well defined beginnings, middles, and ends that have a lot of story beats weaved in for good measure.

With Slott's writing (and, actually, I've had the similar problem with Gail Simone), he seems to take an approach to plotting that almost mirrors real life; a steady stream of drama and excitement, etc...but with a lack of defined story beats and without that build to an eventual crescendo.

I don't think it's at all a lack of skill or quality on Slott's part, it's more a matter of writing style. I was just curious to see if anyone else out there noticed this different type of plotting.

 

[Themanofbat]

It's how comics should be written....in my opinion.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

I really like Dan's plotting as well. He picks up threads of recent plot lines as well as really old plot lines from back in the day and new developments of his own and weaves everything very organically. It's the knowledge of continuity that I like. He seems to juggle a lot of things up in the air very well.

 

[DACrowe]

That is a good point.

My...emotional connection to 616 Peter definitely became disconnected after OMD. And while there were certain arcs of BND that could sometimes spark some enthusiasm for the character from me, it definitely doesn't feel like the "real" Spider-Man.

And I don't even mean that in a logical or intelligent sense, purely on a visceral level, I don't quite care as much as I used to.

That's a good description. My emotional connection to the character died with OMD. I collected Spider-Gril TPBs/back issues a bit years ago to get a sense of the character in mid-life and that was a nice "Epilogue" for me. I also read Ultimate in bits and pieces now, because it feels fresh and not recycled like most of the main Marvel Universe.

But I've just grown out of reading many of them. When I peruse ASM every few months now in a store, it no longer feels like the character I grew up with. It just feels like they're rehashing the character from the '70s/'80s stories I read in TPB and trying to pass it as new. He's no longer a character, but more of a corporate icon they're trying to reintroduce to a new generation. A timeless thing like, say, Bugs Bunny or Charlie Brown.

That's fine, I guess. It keeps the character alive for new readers and kids (if there are many), but I've lost any sense of investment in him as an actual growing character. I feel like Marvel chose to kill it to make sure he is there to sell future generations. That's great, but I don't care about him anymore. And five years later, I don't really care that i don't care now.

 

[KingMob]

I thought OMD sucked, HATED the dealing with the Devil business, but I don't get this OBSESSION/anger with it. I find it weird how people still complain about it, saying it ruined Spidey forever or some other hyperbolic nonsense. I just cant wrap my head around this, "MJ and Peter are MEANT to be together! He's not even the real spider-man anymore!" It was just a sh***y story, and its over now. I guess I'm just shocked at how SERIOUS people take this.

And sure, character progression in nice (like Peter's job at Horizon, or him being an Avenger), but this is comics we're talking about here, mainstream comics at that. How can people be so surprised that Marvel wants Peter to have a status quo and not age? Peter was never going to get older and have a bunch of kids running around, at least not in the 616. Things will change, jobs, gfs, supporting cast, but in the end it will always be the "same".

It sucked. Its done. Get over it.

 

[CConn]

It's how comics should be written....in my opinion.

I disagree entirely.

Honestly, if I had to pick a single way for comics to be written (which is stupid as having diverse methods of storytelling is a very good thing), I'd probably prefer them to be written like Scott Sydner's Batman comics. Both his Detective and Batman runs have drawn heavily from past continuity, but have also been written as these massive, sprawling epics that really feel as though they're of unprecedented importance to the characters involved.

 

[CConn]

I really like Dan's plotting as well. He picks up threads of recent plot lines as well as really old plot lines from back in the day and new developments of his own and weaves everything very organically. It's the knowledge of continuity that I like. He seems to juggle a lot of things up in the air very well.

As I said eluded to in my post above, it's not really about using continuity (that is a very goo part of his writing), it's more about plot structure and thematic elements.

 

[CConn]

I thought OMD sucked, HATED the dealing with the Devil business, but I don't get this OBSESSION/anger with it. I find it weird how people still complain about it, saying it ruined Spidey forever or some other hyperbolic nonsense. I just cant wrap my head around this, "MJ and Peter are MEANT to be together! He's not even the real spider-man anymore!" It was just a sh***y story, and its over now. I guess I'm just shocked at how SERIOUS people take this.

And sure, character progression in nice (like Peter's job at Horizon, or him being an Avenger), but this is comics we're talking about here, mainstream comics at that. How can people be so surprised that Marvel wants Peter to have a status quo and not age? Peter was never going to get older and have a bunch of kids running around, at least not in the 616. Things will change, jobs, gfs, supporting cast, but in the end it will always be the "same".

It sucked. Its done. Get over it.

For me personally, it's not that I can't get over it. I'm not one of those people who swore a gypsy curse on JMS when he wrote Sins Past, or Quesada when they did OMD. I'm not into holding grudges, or even being that bitter over changes in continuity or editorial direction. I can pretty much accept it all on an intellectual basis.

However, for some reason - on a visceral, emotional level - I haven't really been able to enjoy the character of Peter Parker since OMD. I wish I did, I wish I could, but it just hasn't happened. And, I don't really know why. Both Superman and Barry Allen have just gone through similar continuity resets, and I'm actually enjoying those two more now than I ever have. But Peter...I don't know. He seems stuck in the past. I can't help but be disengaged.

 

[Themanofbat]

I disagree entirely.

Honestly, if I had to pick a single way for comics to be written (which is stupid as having diverse methods of storytelling is a very good thing), I'd probably prefer them to be written like Scott Sydner's Batman comics. Both his Detective and Batman runs have drawn heavily from past continuity, but have also been written as these massive, sprawling epics that really feel as though they're of unprecedented importance to the characters involved.

I'm not going to disagree with you about Snyder's current run on Batman, it's awesome... but compared to the "write for trades" mentality thas has swept the industry in the last 10 years, I really miss the old school form of comic book storytelling... some one & dones, a few two or three parters, and the occasional 5 part epic battle... throw in some sub plots and it's all perfect storytelling that makes you wanna pick up the next issue...

It's probably my age...

 

[Smoke87]

just chiming in, but for me, ASM is the best it's been in a very long time.

 

[runawayboulder]

Yeah, it's better than JMS run by a little bit but just as fun as the early days of Micheline's run. I'm happy with how things are. If things get shaken up again, I only hope Dan is coordinating it. I'm thinking before he leaves the book, Pete and MJ will be back together again.

 

[Will Nolte]

I'm not going to disagree with you about Snyder's current run on Batman, it's awesome... but compared to the "write for trades" mentality thas has swept the industry in the last 10 years, I really miss the old school form of comic book storytelling... some one & dones, a few two or three parters, and the occasional 5 part epic battle... throw in some sub plots and it's all perfect storytelling that makes you wanna pick up the next issue...

It's probably my age...

It's gotta be the age thing, cause I totally agree with you on this.

just as fun as the early days of Micheline's run.

I think that is the key here. It was that very run that got me hooked on Spidey. (Started with Venom: Lethal Protecter, and I worked backwards. Some awesome stuff in that era).

Note to Slott: Yes we are praising you pretty highly here, just don't let it inflate your ego.

 

[CConn]

I'm not going to disagree with you about Snyder's current run on Batman, it's awesome... but compared to the "write for trades" mentality thas has swept the industry in the last 10 years, I really miss the old school form of comic book storytelling... some one & dones, a few two or three parters, and the occasional 5 part epic battle... throw in some sub plots and it's all perfect storytelling that makes you wanna pick up the next issue...

It's probably my age...

No, I like that approach myself. I considering the early issues of ASM to be possibly the greatest comic run of all time, and they're we're mostly one and dones.

But there was still a certain epic quality about them. You still had to worry that Pete was going to give up being Spider-Man, or what the reprocussions of Captain Stacy or Gwen were going to be... I just don't feel that drama with Slott's current run. I feel like, if I read next week's issue, then not read another issue for a year, Spider-Man will still be in pretty much the same place as a character.

I don't get that feeling with Synder, or Morrison, or some other writers. With them, every issue becomes "oh ****, Batman's going to get ****ed up". If that makes sense.

And "writing for trade" shouldn't even be mentioned as a legitimate form of plot formulation. It's a lazy way of writing is mainly subscribed to by writers lacking any real talent.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I'm not going to disagree with you about Snyder's current run on Batman, it's awesome... but compared to the "write for trades" mentality thas has swept the industry in the last 10 years, I really miss the old school form of comic book storytelling... some one & dones, a few two or three parters, and the occasional 5 part epic battle... throw in some sub plots and it's all perfect storytelling that makes you wanna pick up the next issue...

It's probably my age...

Personally, I'm pretty open on storytelling. I just want diversity to it. When everything is 6 issue stories I hate it. When everything is year-long arcs I hate it even more. When everything is done-in-one's I get bored.

Mix it all up so that sometimes it's nice simple reading and other times it's amazing impactful stories and that's how I like it. And if a plot is going to be more than 4 issues it better be freaking important and amazing because if it isn't I get more bored than the done-in-one's.

A good example of this was the early-mid 90's Amazing Spider-Man run. You had a two issue run with Doom, then a 3 issue run with Nova and the Tri-Sentinel, then a 6 issue event of Round Robin: The Sidekick's Revenge, then a 2 part Cardiac story, then a 3 issue introduction to Carnage with Venom, then a single issue with Shocker, a single issue with Lizard, and it went on and one with smaller stories but it all flowed and connected instead of being just solo stories. That layout's what got me into comics.