BvS Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread. - Part 1

[Smallville13]

The character of Batman will not be the one doing all the cool summer tentpole stuff seen in the ads for this cool summer tentpole movie. If only the film DID have a character that could do a bunch of crazy cool, VFX driven action that gets people into theatres. But WHO could fit that bill? It would also help if said character had also just had his own successful reboot film. I can't think of anyone that fits that bill. What's Billy Batson up too?

Wanna bet?

 

[Herolee10]

Zach Snyder has directed six films:

Man of Steel, 225M, 649M
Sucker Punch, 82M, 90M
Legends of the Guardians, 80M, 140M
Watchmen, 130M, 185M
300, 65M, 456M
Dawn of the Dead, 28M, 102M

Total Cost: 600 million
Total Worldwide Gross: 1,624 million

Yeah, Snyder delivers too many box office bombs.

The only real bombs that he has from his list are Sucker Punch and Legends; the other films weren't really bombs. Box Office Bombs are films that fail to even make back their production budget's costs.

 

[DA_Champion]

The only real bombs that he has from his list are Sucker Punch and Legends; the other films weren't really bombs. Box Office Bombs are films that fail to even make back their production budget's costs.

I was being sarcastic

Snyder's overall track record, from a purely financial standpoint, is clearly a good one.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Wanna bet?

Not a betting man. But I think after MOS (Blu Ray and On Demand not available YET) and the audience getting a taste of what Cavil-Supes can do, then yeah, they will put Superman's super cool power moments in the ads. Cause I think the audience has seen a guy in a Bat suit jump with a fluttery scalloped cape before. And punch guys. And use a line to swing like Tarzan. Also they've seen that guy run from explosions before and drive his crazy cool car in crazy cool ways.

 

[Smallville13]

Not a betting man. But I think after MOS (Blu Ray and On Demand not available YET) and the audience getting a taste of what Cavil-Supes can do, then yeah, they will put Superman's super cool power moments in the ads. Cause I think the audience has seen a guy in a Bat suit jump with a fluttery scalloped cape before. And punch guys. And use a line to swing like Tarzan. Also they've seen that guy run from explosions before and drive his crazy cool car in crazy cool ways.

I think we can say for sure that the marketing for this film is going to revolve around Batman...

The teaser next year introducing everyone to the film will probably start showing the characters of MOS and then lead to the big reveal of Batman. Then all subsequent material will no doubt revolve around screaming 'BATMAN IS IN THIS MOVIE' with all the money shots focusing on him.

 

[teagone]

I'd like to know on what grounds would writing Batman into the Man of Steel 2 narrative prevent it from being a direct sequel to the first film, even if the film directly follows the events of Man of Steel. I honestly don't know why some people have an issue with this, so I'm genuinely curious for the reasoning behind this kind of negative predisposition.

 

[DocHolliday]

I'm annoyed that WB seems to keep pulling from Dark Knight Returns as inspiration for this thing. If we're seeing Batman and Superman meeting for the first time, the LAST Batman story is really not the one to draw from.

Their safest bet would be to take "World's Finest" from the animated series and pump that up to a 2 1/2 hour epic, with a few tweaks to make it follow better from MoS. Sure, that would mean another Joker on film, but we could also get Harley! So everybody wins!

THIS is the first bad news regarding the film. I don't mind Affleck, Snyder, and Goyer...I do have issues with them using this as the chief inspiration. Couple of points:

1. For a dystopian Batman story, DKR is pretty good but it loses it's way about three quarters of the way in. Miller's characterization of Superman is especially god-awful. Even worse, that fight has been the inspiration for numerous(badly-written) "Batman kicks Superman's ass" comics.

2. You're right about it being a poor choice for a team-up or intro story. Byrne nailed both characters in the third issue of the Man of Steel mini-series. I'd rather see something along those lines(just replace that lame Magpie villain with someone better...maybe Deathstroke?)

 

[DA_Champion]

I'd like to know on what grounds would writing Batman into the Man of Steel 2 narrative prevent it from being a direct sequel to the first film, even if the film directly follows the events of Man of Steel. I honestly don't know why some people have an issue with this, so I'm genuinely curious for the reasoning behind this kind of negative predisposition.

Because there is only so much you can do in 140 minutes.

A man of steel sequel would need to address the consequences of the destruction of a quarter of metropolis; Forward the Clark-Lois relationship, develop Clark and Lois as reporters and thus Perry White, Jenny Jarwich and the Daily Planet as well; Introduce Lex Luthor; Develop the City of Metropolis; State what happened to all the Kryptonian technology that was littered all over the place in MoS; and tell us about the abandoned life pod.

Can you do all that if you also have to introduce Batman and his team, some third villain for them to team up against, etc?

Probably not.

 

[Gianakin_]

Having let the casting news sit a bit, I'm finally fairly optimistic.

 

[Herolee10]

Because there is only so much you can do in 140 minutes.

A man of steel sequel would need to address the consequences of the destruction of a quarter of metropolis; Forward the Clark-Lois relationship, develop Clark and Lois as reporters and thus Perry White, Jenny Jarwich and the Daily Planet as well; Introduce Lex Luthor; Develop the City of Metropolis; State what happened to all the Kryptonian technology that was littered all over the place in MoS; and tell us about the abandoned life pod.

Can you do all that if you also have to introduce Batman and his team, some third villain for them to team up against, etc?

Probably not.

Well if they went about it in giving Batman a role as big as Harvey Dent's then they could theoretically get away with it somewhat since Batman was still the protagonist of the film, even though Harvey was a major character. They just need to make the film around 2 hours and 35-40 minutes long.

 

[DA_Champion]

Well if they went about it in giving Batman a role as big as Harvey Dent's then they could theoretically get away with it somewhat since Batman was still the protagonist of the film, even though Harvey was a major character. They just need to make the film around 2 hours and 35-40 minutes long.

You're right, and I think they could even do one better. If they made it a pure versus movie, they could develop both characters by having them be foils to one another. Gotham and Metropolis could both be developed via comparisons and contrasts, et cetera.

Unfortunately, if they have it be a versus movie for the first 40 miniutes, and then a team-up against Lex, Deathstroke, Metallo, and Brainiac like a lot of fans are suggesting, then we won't get any world building. Just a lot of action. We need world-building and character-building at this point. This movie can work if it is focused... unfortunately I don't expect it to be.

 

[Herolee10]

You're right, and I think they could even do one better. If they made it a pure versus movie, they could develop both characters by having them be foils to one another. Gotham and Metropolis could both be developed via comparisons and contrasts, et cetera.

Unfortunately, if they have it be a versus movie for the first 40 miniutes, and then a team-up against Lex, Deathstroke, Metallo, and Brainiac like a lot of fans are suggesting, then we won't get any world building. Just a lot of action. We need world-building and character-building at this point. This movie can work if it is focused... unfortunately I don't expect it to be.

Well, I think the biggest question that Snyder and goyer have to ask themselves is that: What does Batman and Lex Luther represent when it comes to humanity's reaction towards Superman's presence on Earth?

And it really also depends on who's story out of Superman's and Batman's will take priority in this film; if it's Superman then Gotham will probably not be shown as much.

And I honestly can't believe that some still want Brainiac in this film considering on how Brainiac will not be given the justice that his character needs with a film as crowded as this.

Plus, I think it's best to not repeat the alien menace angle for this film and focus solely on earth-based threats.

 

[DA_Champion]

Well, I think the biggest question that Snyder and goyer have to ask themselves is that: What does Batman and Lex Luther represent when it comes to humanity's reaction towards Superman's presence on Earth?

And it really also depends on who's story out of Superman's and Batman's will take priority in this film; if it's Superman then Gotham will probably not be shown as much.

And I honestly can't believe that some still want Brainiac in this film considering on how Brainiac will not be given the justice that his character needs with a film as crowded as this.

Plus, I think it's best to not repeat the alien menace angle for this film and focus solely on earth-based threats.

There's nothing for us to discuss, we seem to agree on everything !

 

[Gianakin_]

You guys are pretty spot on.

 

[Herolee10]

If anything, as long as Snyder and Goyer stay true to what they established in "MOS", then Superman, for the most part, should be fine.

I mean the film went on about how Superman has the potential to lead humanity to greater heights, along with establishing that he will never be a government lackey. So if everything only takes another step further with this film, then one could argue that Superman is being slowly prepped to lead the future Justice League.

Who knows? Maybe it's because of Batman's cynicism and distrustful nature that will prevent him from carrying out that role efficiently, where he'll be more suited towards being the tactician of the group, whereas Superman is the one that will represent a new hope that humanity has now.

 

[Bathead]

If anything, as long as Snyder and Goyer stay true to what they established in "MOS", then Superman, for the most part, should be fine.

I mean the film went on about how Superman has the potential to lead humanity to greater heights, along with establishing that he will never be a government lackey. So if everything only takes another step further with this film, then one could argue that Superman is being slowly prepped to lead the future Justice League.

Who knows? Maybe it's because of Batman's cynicism and distrustful nature that will prevent him from carrying out that role efficiently, where he'll be more suited towards being the tactician of the group, whereas Superman is the one that will represent a new hope that humanity has now.

You mean pretty much the way the JL has been portrayed most of it's lifetime? I could see Snyder/Goyer going that route.

 

[AnneFan]

Having let the casting news sit a bit, I'm finally fairly optimistic.

I am indeed optimistic as well. I think Affleck will be fine, and at the end of the day, it's Batman up against Superman. I'm there regardless. If the story is good, that's half the battle. Look at Lazenby and OHMSS.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

The cinematic public has undergone alot of conditioning over the years. The urban myth batman is not as obvious a concept to some as it is to others.

I remember for years batman wouldn't take a photo or make a public appearance with the JL because he wouldn't dare reveal himself(or something to that end). Of course, there are different takes on the material.
I for one hope that this next batman get's more and more things right. And so far it's looking that way.

We know next to nothing about Batman's portrayal in this film. He's seasoned. That's all we know right? Unless I missed something. Not sure how many things they got right so far.

 

[Marvin]

We know next to nothing about Batman's portrayal in this film. He's seasoned. That's all we know right? Unless I missed something. Not sure how many things they got right so far.

He's not a public super hero
He's seasoned
Snyders direction(don't see the bale voice being in play, among other things)
He's going to exist in a super hero world leading to-
He's supposedly "the one man that (can)beat clark"

"so far it's looking that way"
never said anything about it being that way.

 

[georgec]

How much will Batman be seasoned? I mean, what spices or rubs will they use on him?

 

[JangoNate]

I find that incredibly hard to believe. Not because it's a bad idea or anything, but because of the massive influence production companies, like WB, have on a director. And I highly doubt Snyder has free reign on where he wants the franchise to go. He hasn't earned that right, considering all the box office bombs he's given WB.

Hey...I didn't say it, the source did. It's not hard to believe that if it was his idea that WB wouldn't go for it. It's Batman and Superman together, I'm sure if he brought it up they saw dollar signs. Plus, considering Snyder's love of all things 'awesome', it's probably what he thought of the moment he put those together in his brain and he went with it.

Nice avatar, by the way. Love that film!

 

[DOO BEE]

Zach Snyder has directed six films:

Man of Steel, 225M, 649M
Sucker Punch, 82M, 90M
Legends of the Guardians, 80M, 140M
Watchmen, 130M, 185M
300, 65M, 456M
Dawn of the Dead, 28M, 102M

Total Cost: 600 million
Total Worldwide Gross: 1,624 million

Yeah, Snyder delivers too many box office bombs.

you mean $1.6 Billion... not $1,624 million
just clearing that up...

 

[Hurm...]

Hey...I didn't say it, the source did. It's not hard to believe that if it was his idea that WB wouldn't go for it. It's Batman and Superman together, I'm sure if he brought it up they saw dollar signs. Plus, considering Snyder's love of all things 'awesome', it's probably what he thought of the moment he put those together in his brain and he went with it.

Nice avatar, by the way. Love that film!

Fair enough.

And thanks! My favorite Scorsese film!

 

[Bathead]

you mean $1.6 Billion... not $1,624 million
just clearing that up...

Meh, six of one, half a dozen of the other ...

 

[Marvin]

Meh, six of one, half a dozen of the other ...

Luckily that's about to change. Just like it did once nolan got his hands on a decent property.