BvS Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread. - Part 1

[hopefuldreamer]

The "dick-measuring" line was terrible. It sounds like a desperate, forceful attempt to establish Lois as "Miss Independent" and for that reason, it's cringeworthy. Any heavy-handed dialogue like that is hard to execute.

Couldn't agree more.

There were a few things thrown in there that were meant to establish Lois as... well, Lois. But they were so weak... I mean, you only have to look at Smallville, LnC or STAS to see how well her snarky attitude can be written. The 'dick-measuring' line was just not up to that standard.

The only moment in the whole film where I really think Lois Lane's personality shone through, was when she asks where she's supposed to pee and is pointed towards a bucket... and then she smiles this smile that is just so Lois. It's her amusement at their assumption she would be remotely bothered by a lack of bathroom facilities like a girly girl. It's a smile that says she's about to get up to mischeif anyway and she's glad they are underestimating her.

It's amazing how much you can read from something so small if it's played right

I was really hoping we'd see a bit more of Lois the investigative Journalist in action in the next film... but it seems unlikely with everything going on.

 

[Maze]

http://variety.com/2012/film/news/terrio-scribe-worked-fringes-until-argo-1118062634/

http://blogs.indiewire.com/thompson...o-russell-reteaming-for-the-ends-of-the-earth

 

[MrsKent26]

Terrio's inclusion is one of the main things that keeps me interested in this movie. Yes, he's only done one mainstream movie, but it was Oscar worthy. I'm excited to see this cast (which I'm very happy with nowadays, except for Gadot and even her I am optimistic about) deliver lines from someone other than Goyer. I have no clue what a superhero movie written partially by Terrio will be like, but at least it's exciting and new.

 

[Rowsdower!]

F*** sake, I knew I shouldn't have bothered posting in this thread. If I took a drink every time some pretentious hype poster used the word "cringeworthy" I'd be sh**faced in five minutes.

I suppose this thread wouldn't be so bloody annoying if these arguments didn't seem to find their way into every other thread on this board. It makes me just want to say, "Fine! You win! It was the worst movie in the history of the universe and the sequel will be a disaster!" Maybe that will make us all move on.

I'm not saying that all of you are wrong, but so many of these complaints are so subjective. You didn't see chemistry between Cavill and Adams? I saw a ton of it. You thought Cavill was a blank slate? I thought he was every bit as good as Reeve, etc.

 

[STARMAN]

We pretty much know what we're going to get from Goyer. With Terrio I'm hoping he can write snappy character banter.

 

[regwec]

If I took a drink every time some pretentious hype poster used the word "cringeworthy" I'd be sh**faced in five minutes.

Yep.

 

[serendipity]

I think Goyer gets too much crap for Man of Steel. He brought some great things to the table, like the serious take on Superman's alienhood (which was rightfully due) and the raw layer of father-son emotions (which leaped out of Goyer's own personal life).

That being said, the dialogue was not always the best.

 

[-Arya-]

F*** sake, I knew I shouldn't have bothered posting in this thread. If I took a drink every time some pretentious hype poster used the word "cringeworthy" I'd be sh**faced in five minutes.

I suppose this thread wouldn't be so bloody annoying if these arguments didn't seem to find their way into every other thread on this board. It makes me just want to say, "Fine! You win! It was the worst movie in the history of the universe and the sequel will be a disaster!" Maybe that will make us all move on.

I'm not saying that all of you are wrong, but so many of these complaints are so subjective. You didn't see chemistry between Cavill and Adams? I saw a ton of it. You thought Cavill was a blank slate? I thought he was every bit as good as Reeve, etc.

Right on! t:

 

[Bren]

I'm dreading the film being anything other than great. Because you know, it's Superman and Batman (and Wonder Woman) in one bloody film! Expectations to be blown away are off the charts.

So anything under that level I am worried. But I've never been worried that it'll be a turdfest. Not once.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Thanks. The thing is, it's fine if people thought the movie was bad but I'm just so tired of it. I know I'm never going to convince any of them that it was good, so I wish they'd stop listing countless reasons why we all should have hated it. Now, as for BvS, I would be lying if I said there werent some things about it that make me apprehensive, but having "nothing but dread" at this early stage, where we've seen no footage, we have no definite information of the story, and we don't even know the entire cast, is just silly.

 

[serendipity]

I'm dreading the film being anything other than great. Because you know, it's Superman and Batman (and Wonder Woman) in one bloody film! Expectations to be blown away are off the charts.

So anything under that level I am worried. But I've never been worried that it'll be a turdfest. Not once.

I agree, the level of anticipation is outrageous. For me this is the biggest superhero film of them all (as much as I love the Nolanverse), it all comes down to these epic characters manifesting on screen together for the first time.

 

[Rowsdower!]

I agree, the level of anticipation is outrageous. For me this is the biggest superhero film of them all (as much as I love the Nolanverse), it all comes down to these epic characters manifesting on screen together for the first time.

Yeah, the potential is huge. That's why I say, be optimistic. Even if you thought MOS got things wrong, the most you can do is hope the BvS gets them right. If people spend the next two years expecting this movie to be a disaster, that will taint their opinion of the movie when they finally see it.

 

[jfurioso]

There seems to be always a surprising amount of passion involved in this kind of project for die hard fans of the material or genre. It can lead to extremes in both optimism and negativity.

There are casting and concept choices that do not particularly excite me.
But I am willing to give the production and crew the benefit of the doubt.

I don't think BvS is likely to be a great work of cinematic art. I expect it to be an entertaining action-adventure piece, at least on the level of MOS. Thus, I expect it to not irritate me so I'm taken out of the narrative.

I have yet to see a superhero movie that did not have flaws. It is a difficult task to craft an action-adventure movie with a coherent plot that also manages to convincingly world-build a reality where science-defying powers work, to portray recognizably characters who have enjoyed decades of aggregated characterization and continuity, to create and resolve conflict in outlandish scale within very limited narrative time frames, and still satisfy basic requirements of storytelling.

Most naturalistic fiction does not need to create a whole new workable world as backdrop, so the work for SF kind of fiction becomes much harder. Superhero movies as subset of SF movies have even more problems by dealing with shakier conceptual structures inherent in the genre conventions.

I do not watch such kind of movie for slick, naturalistic dialogue. I do not expect innovative commentary on the human condition. I do not expect soul-shaking epiphanies as a result of my watching childhood favorite characters assembled on the silver screen.

I expect it to be competent entertainment. There are parameters of competence I wish sustained. Those parameters change from person to person.

But in the end, it's just a movie, you know...

 

[serendipity]

Yeah, the potential is huge. That's why I say, be optimistic. Even if you thought MOS got things wrong, the most you can do is hope the BvS gets them right. If people spend the next two years expecting this movie to be a disaster, that will taint their opinion of the movie when they finally see it.

Indeed.

Logical concerns for an ambitious movie are fine, but certainty doesn't always look good on people. I tend to get amped up about these movies, maybe a little too much sometimes. But it's worth noting that 2nd entries in a franchise tend to have great momentum.

 

[Flint Marko]

F*** sake, I knew I shouldn't have bothered posting in this thread. If I took a drink every time some pretentious hype poster used the word "cringeworthy" I'd be sh**faced in five minutes.

I suppose this thread wouldn't be so bloody annoying if these arguments didn't seem to find their way into every other thread on this board. It makes me just want to say, "Fine! You win! It was the worst movie in the history of the universe and the sequel will be a disaster!" Maybe that will make us all move on.

I'm not saying that all of you are wrong, but so many of these complaints are so subjective. You didn't see chemistry between Cavill and Adams? I saw a ton of it. You thought Cavill was a blank slate? I thought he was every bit as good as Reeve, etc.

Well aren't we entitled to express that just as much as you are entitled to your own opinion? I understand that negativity being aimed towards something you love can get obnoxious, especially when it seems to come from all angles, and can potentially lead to tension. But isn't this thread the most appropriate place to post these sort of things?
I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I don't love going into other threads and saying these things because I feel like a Debbie downer. I don't enjoy being negative, I don't like complaining, especially in a place where everyone is supportive of whatever we are discussing.
That being said I think there's always a place for constructive criticism, and so far the majority of everything I've seen in here has been pretty level-headed and rational. I enjoy a discussion with someone who disagrees with me, not to try and convert anyone to how I believe or view things my way, but just to hear from someone with a different perspective.
That being said, I've been looking around these boards for a while and you're right about the man of steel discussion. It is ongoing and incessant, especially the negativity. It's a very divisive film, so I can completely understand and sympathize with your frustration

 

[MrsKent26]

F*** sake, I knew I shouldn't have bothered posting in this thread. If I took a drink every time some pretentious hype poster used the word "cringeworthy" I'd be sh**faced in five minutes.

Bless you, Sir. Sometimes you say what I'm thinking, but am too chicken**** to say.

I don't begrudge people their right to complain (we all do it at some point), but the adjective "cringe-worthy" has become...cringe-worthy.

 

[Boom]

I've heard this said numerous times by different people, and I'm afraid I'm a little confused.

How does one "earn" a kiss?

I mean, Superman is a charismatic, good-looking mystery man. I'd imagine those are alluring qualities in a man (Lady posters, I'll need your input). Lois is certainly curious about him, and they share plenty of small moments throughout the film that hint at some attraction between the two. Then there's the whole "saving her life on three separate occasions" thing.

I understand that the place of the kiss was a bit jarring. It's hard to appreciate the sentiment and emotion behind the kiss as they stand amidst widespread death and destruction.

Otherwise, I thought the kiss itself was fine. If anything, I'd say it was insensitive for the setting, but the two of them just survived a pretty disastrous ordeal. Is it really that unreasonable to embrace someone you care about in such circumstances?

 

[regwec]

But...she might have cooties.

 

[MrsKent26]

I've heard this said numerous times by different people, and I'm afraid I'm a little confused.

How does one "earn" a kiss?

I mean, Superman is a charismatic, good-looking mystery man. I'd imagine those are alluring qualities in a man (Lady posters, I'll need your input). Lois is certainly curious about him, and they share plenty of small moments throughout the film that hint at some attraction between the two. Then there's the whole "saving her life on three separate occasions" thing.

I understand that the place of the kiss was a bit jarring. It's hard to appreciate the sentiment and emotion behind the kiss as they stand amidst widespread death and destruction.

Otherwise, I thought the kiss itself was fine. If anything, I'd say it was insensitive for the setting, but the two of them just survived a pretty disastrous ordeal. Is it really that unreasonable to embrace someone you care about in such circumstances?

I agree with all of this.

And from a straight female perspective...I wouldn't stop at just kissing that mystery man, lol.

As for the setting, I understand the complaints, but I didn't mind it. As you said, they just had a near death experience and are probably pretty rattled. And it's not like they had long before Zod interrupts their moment.

 

[Boom]

Maybe it was the dialogue after the kiss that makes the moment a bit off.

If the two shared an intimate kiss, then stared into each other's eyes in silent acknowledgement just before Zod started up again, would that have been preferable to people?

The whole:

"They say it's all downhill after the first kiss."
"I think that only applies to humans."

Exchange suggests a humorous and playful approach to that moment. Amidst crumbled buildings and human remains? Yeeeeah, maybe not the best idea.

 

[jfurioso]

I feel that the scene would have worked better in the larger context if they had been just about to kiss and then the noise from Zod stopped them. Sure it is a cliche, much as the rescue-kiss itself, but it would have created a greater sense of expectation for the next movie, and would have kept them at that level of just discovering their feelings for each other that both frustrates and excites the fanbase.

And as a straight male, I would have hated to pass on kissing Amy Adams as Lois.

 

[PacificBoy]

I've heard this said numerous times by different people, and I'm afraid I'm a little confused.

How does one "earn" a kiss?

I mean, Superman is a charismatic, good-looking mystery man. I'd imagine those are alluring qualities in a man (Lady posters, I'll need your input). Lois is certainly curious about him, and they share plenty of small moments throughout the film that hint at some attraction between the two. Then there's the whole "saving her life on three separate occasions" thing.

I understand that the place of the kiss was a bit jarring. It's hard to appreciate the sentiment and emotion behind the kiss as they stand amidst widespread death and destruction.

Otherwise, I thought the kiss itself was fine. If anything, I'd say it was insensitive for the setting, but the two of them just survived a pretty disastrous ordeal. Is it really that unreasonable to embrace someone you care about in such circumstances?

I'm ok with the rationale behind the kiss, near death experience and there was obvious attraction between them, but what made it a wee off was the length of the kiss plus the joke.

A short intense kiss, like the one they had before they broke it off and made the joke, would have worked perfectly for me. Also having Clark break off the kiss and check on the survivors would have been a nice touch. Cracking the joke and continuing lip locking lost the emotional weight behind the kiss and pushed it slightly to makeout territory.

It seemed like they would go on for a while if not for Zod's interruption.

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

In the beginning I was skeptical about this movie. But as it is filming and as I hear the good things that are being said about it, it's really hard for me to see this movie fail. SO I am hopeful. AT the worst it will do average.

 

[Visualiza]

Live Free or Die Hard was a good movie with solid writing? In what universe?

That's all you were able to take away from that, eh? I don't understand how you can get so bent out of shape about the most tame criticisms of MoS when you can't refrain from making rude comments like this, which doesn't even address the point made, I might add.

I really do think Cavill is a solid actor, he was just given next to nothing to really work with in regards to the screenplay. The character was poorly written with next to no personality or charisma.

My sentiments exactly. I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt, though. If there's one thing I agree with the fans about, is that he definitely looks the part, and that counts for something. Now I'd like to see his acting chops on display with a competent script at his disposal.

The "dick-measuring" line I will agree was quite out of place for a Superman film, but the "Are you eff'ing stupid?!" is a very military way of speaking...especially for those in positions of authority (senior NCO's & senior Officers)

I've never heard that before. You'll hear things like 'dog gone', if someone doesn't swear, but 'effin'?

Have to say...so far, the only problem with this revived thread are not from the people sharing criticisms, but from posters making lame jokes and digs about the more critical posters.

Which is weird, because all they have to do is stay out of this particular thread.

Indeed, but I wouldn't even go that far. Why leave; why not just participate in the discussion if you feel so strongly about the subject matter?

My thing is, why get annoyed and take things personally in the first place? If anything, that is the problem here, people get bent out of shape when they read something they don't agree with. If you disagree, then...I don't know...discuss it and come to an understanding? You're probably not going to convince anyone otherwise, but that's not and shouldn't be the point. Tired of hearing the same arguments? Well, tough. That's a very silly complaint, if for no other reason than the fact that it applies to both sides equally. Both sides will continue to repeat the same arguments unless the movie inexplicably changes some day. Not a very valid reason for the contempt if you ask me; speaks more to people's intolerance than anything else.

As someone who didn't like the movie, I'm not tired of people praising it as they do (that's their prerogative, a courtesy they seem to have trouble extending to others), what I'm tired of is this witch hunt/lynch mob mentality that fans take whenever they hear something they don't like. Again, I notice this sort of behavior even when the criticism is mild and worded in a manner that is in no way provocative.

Thanks. The thing is, it's fine if people thought the movie was bad but I'm just so tired of it. I know I'm never going to convince any of them that it was good, so I wish they'd stop listing countless reasons why we all should have hated it. Now, as for BvS, I would be lying if I said there werent some things about it that make me apprehensive, but having "nothing but dread" at this early stage, where we've seen no footage, we have no definite information of the story, and we don't even know the entire cast, is just silly.

You could flip the script on everything you've said and it would apply to the other side of the fence as well. Your issue is a matter of tolerance (or the lack thereof), nothing more. How would I sound if I said that I was tired of hearing you gush about the film and that I wish you'd stop telling me why I should love it? You'd probably tell me to go pound sand, right? Well...

As The Batman pointed out earlier, the only people getting out of line here are the ones who are making the criticisms personal. There's been more than enough level-headed debate by people who actually care to engage one another rather than getting snarky and defensive.

This is why I have the utmost respect for people like Batmannerism and UltimateWebhead; they enjoy their respective favorites and are comfortable enough in their own skin to debate the content of other people's arguments rather than calling their character or motives into question.

 

[MrsKent26]

Maybe it was the dialogue after the kiss that makes the moment a bit off.

If the two shared an intimate kiss, then stared into each other's eyes in silent acknowledgement just before Zod started up again, would that have been preferable to people?

The whole:

"They say it's all downhill after the first kiss."
"I think that only applies to humans."

Exchange suggests a humorous and playful approach to that moment. Amidst crumbled buildings and human remains? Yeeeeah, maybe not the best idea.

I didn't mind the dialogue, but I don't think I was really focusing on it that much. The actual lines are silly, but they way they said (all out of breath and in the middle of the kiss) made me focus more on the chemistry between the actors instead of the actual lines.

However...since you mentioned it, I do think it would have been nicer if they just kissed and stared into each others' eyes. That would have been intense and even hotter.