BvS Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread. - Part 2

[dnno1]

There has to be Kevin Feige type figure, for sure, the question is who will do that. Goyer? At first it seemed likely, but him being booted off the executive producer role gave me some doubts. It might very well be Geoff Johns, despite the Green Lantern failure, and at the moment he seems like the most qualified executive who also has an understanding of the world and characters.

I don't believe it will be Snyder. He doesn't strike me as the editor/manager type.

I always had the impression he must have been the biggest wallflower during the GL production. He must have definitely known better, he just probably lacked authority.

Guys, David Goyer is still an executive producer on this project. Where are you getting that he was booted off?

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I don't think Johns was a wallflower during prodcution. After DC Entertainment was announced and Johns became head, the original GL script (which was pretty good) was rewritten with more elements from Johns' stories, namely Parallax and other elements. It didn't fit with Emerald Dawn, the story the original script was based off of .

Also, I don't trust Goyer. His scripts and stories have good ideas to them, like Snyder's movies, but they are poorly thought out and executed like with Zack Snyder, which I think was the problem with some elements of Man of Steel (which I liked).

 

[Nemeres]

Guys, David Goyer is still an executive producer on this project. Where are you getting that he was booted off?

Oh I never said he was, I was just commenting on Geoff Johns. I'm actually super out of date with how this thing is going.

 

[Doctor Jones]

My point was that there is nothing wrong with it because that is part of the story that the writer wants to tell. Yes, saying that it it forced is a weak argument for that reason (the storyteller is the driving force here). I am sorry that you didn't understand that. No as far as copying, goes it seems to be a habit of both Marvel and DC through the years (Darkseid/Thanos, New Gods/Eternals, Green Lantern/Nova, Batman/Moon Night, et. al.), so why should we be surprised about that if they did copy or not?

But this doesn't seem guided by what the writer wants to tell. Or this doesn't strike me as something where Snyder is the driving force, more like the Marc Webb where he is trying to adjust to all these changes.

Are you really applying the principles of copying two comic book companies who make comic books with a movie studio who makes comic book movies and a movie studio who partly makes comic book movies? Sure all of them are interested in making money and beating the competition but the fundamental ways of running things are very different.

 

[dnno1]

But this doesn't seem guided by what the writer wants to tell. Or this doesn't strike me as something where Snyder is the driving force, more like the Marc Webb where he is trying to adjust to all these changes.

Are you really applying the principles of copying two comic book companies who make comic books with a movie studio who makes comic book movies and a movie studio who partly makes comic book movies? Sure all of them are interested in making money and beating the competition but the fundamental ways of running things are very different.

Who is telling the story, then? Whomever that person is, then they (singularly or collectively) are the driving force that is setting this in motion. Yes, I am applying the principles of the two comic-book companies to the studios since the latter is getting their inspiration from the source material of the former. Yes, their fundamental ways of doing business are different, but this is all story telling and that is the same in any medium.

 

[dnno1]

Oh I never said he was, I was just commenting on Geoff Johns. I'm actually super out of date with how this thing is going.

Doctor Thanos did. I only quoted you because you commented on his post without correcting him. I don't believe that Geoff Johns is involved in BvS outside of providing source material.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Who is telling the story, then? Whomever that person is, then they (singularly or collectively) are the driving force that is setting this in motion. Yes, I am applying the principles of the two comic-book companies to the studios since the latter is getting their inspiration from the source material of the former. Yes, their fundamental ways of doing business are different, but this is all story telling and that is the same in any medium.

So how does this make it ok and change how I feel about WB's handling of these properties so far?

You do realize my issues with WB stems from something more deeply rooted than what you're just simply stating?

 

[dnno1]

So how does this make it ok and change how I feel about WB's handling of these properties so far?

You do realize my issues with WB stems from something more deeply rooted than what you're just simply stating?

It's silly.

 

[Dr. Thanos]

Guys, David Goyer is still an executive producer on this project. Where are you getting that he was booted off?

My mistake. I was thinking of an article from a while ago that mentioned him having a smaller role in the film, which is true as Geoff Johns will be doing part of the work, but he is in fact still executive producer. Thank you for the correction.

 

[dnno1]

My mistake. I was thinking of an article from a while ago that mentioned him having a smaller role in the film, which is true as Geoff Johns will be doing part of the work, but he is in fact still executive producer. Thank you for the correction.

Hey, we should all be checking each other. We don't want to put out misinformation.

 

[Doctor Jones]

It's silly.

I'm confused, what's silly?

 

[dnno1]

I'm confused, what's silly?

The perception of something (in this case a story) being forced as being a bad thing or something to be concerned about. That's just silly.

 

[Flint Marko]

It's silly.

No it isn't. It's actually a pretty sensible reason to be anxious about this whole thing. You can't tell people their trepidation is unwarranted and unjustified simply because you feel otherwise. I understand you're looking forward to this and that's great, but to tell someone their fears are "silly" is pretty immature.
This is a movie helmed by a director whose movies are generally met with mixed reactions, and every bit of information released so far has a lot of people wondering if this is the movie Snyder wants to tell, or if it's the movie mandated by Warner Studios in response to Marvel's success.
Some people are concerned, and some aren't. To try and tell someone to be blindly hopeful is ignorant and close-minded.

 

[I Am The Knight]

I think Johns is fantastic. Love his GL and Flash stuff. Not sure how responsible he is for the crazy/silly/kinda awful GL movie.

 

[Flint Marko]

I think Johns is fantastic. Love his GL and Flash stuff. Not sure how responsible he is for the crazy/silly/kinda awful GL movie.

I think it was mostly a problem of there being too many cooks in the kitchen than anything.

 

[Doctor Jones]

The perception of something (in this case a story) being forced as being a bad thing or something to be concerned about. That's just silly.

All you're doing is confusing me. You're middling my arguments down to something that is more of childish logic than directly addressing my concerns and criticisms which are very much warranted. If you've been reading my posts, I hope that I am wrong about this movie and that is great, but on my end, right now I cannot share your attitude as it would be naive. Your view is yours and that's fine, just please do not try to call my arguments "silly" when they actually aren't at all.

 

[Reiter]

I think Johns is fantastic. Love his GL and Flash stuff. Not sure how responsible he is for the crazy/silly/kinda awful GL movie.

A good comic book writer doesnt necessarily make a good movie writer. The mediums are so different. I dont know how much of the GL fiasco is on him, but i'd rather he just advises.

 

[MrsKent26]

The difference between DOFP is that those were all characters within the framework of its own franchise and X-Men has and always will be, team orientated. This is a different animal entirely. These are three iconic superheroes among other big superheroes sharing one movie. Before Justice League. I can't tell what the **** this is anymore. Apparently, the push in date was to make the script fit more in line with Justice League. And here, (optimistic me) thought it was because to make the script itself better in quality. Now that doesn't mean they were trying to do that too. You can have a good writer like Terrio, but that doesn't mean it's going to be saved or good. In the industry, many writers, good or bad are phased through these kind of movies, and when the final product comes out, you wouldn't know who wrote what. I'll use Spider-Man 4. There were some great writers constantly rewriting that thing, but if the rumors were true, they still weren't able to save what it was turning out to be, much less turn out a suitable shooting script.

I still have to remind myself that this is a Superman film.

I don't really think of this as a superman film anymore. It has seemingly become something else and I've tried to adjust my expectations accordingly. I've given up hoping for a superman film and instead hope this will be a team film in the vein of DOFP that gives each hero it features their due. I do agree that it's a different animal though. I just hope BvS is of similar quality to DOFP and remembers to give each hero their "awesome" moment. The same emotional heft and sense of urgency for the finale would be nice as well.

 

[zryson]

I don't really think of this as a superman film anymore. It has seemingly become something else and I've tried to adjust my expectations accordingly. I've given up hoping for a superman film and instead hope this will be a team film in the vein of DOFP that gives each hero it features their due. I do agree that it's a different animal though. I just hope BvS is of similar quality to DOFP and remembers to give each hero their "awesome" moment. The same emotional heft and sense of urgency for the finale would be nice as well.

In many ways, I agree with what you wrote MrsKent26. I think had Man of Steel been a bigger hit, better received, than we would have gotten much more of a direct Superman sequel. As such, other characters will be put into the film, no doubt Warner Bros hopes, which will greatly increase the box office in 2016.

 

[MrsKent26]

In many ways, I agree with what you wrote MrsKent26. I think had Man of Steel been a bigger hit, better received, than we would have gotten much more of a direct Superman sequel. As such, other characters will be put into the film, no doubt Warner Bros hopes, which will greatly increase the box office in 2016.

I don't really agree with that. The decision to make this a team up could easily come from creative preferences (Snyder has said in an interview that when thinking about who superman should face post-Zod, he thought about batman) and a desire to be competitive in the current market (perhaps a notion born from a studio brain rather than Snyder's). TWS was well-received and still didn't make Avengers money. Team-ups appear to be worth more at the box office nowadays if they have the novelty factor on their side (which the first ever DC team-up surely does).

 

[zryson]

I don't really agree with that. The decision to make this a team up could easily come from creative preferences (Snyder has said in an interview that when thinking about who superman should face post-Zod, he thought about batman) and a desire to be competitive in the current market (perhaps a notion born from a studio brain rather than Snyder's). TWS was well-received and still didn't make Avengers money. Team-ups appear to be worth more at the box office nowadays if they have the novelty factor on their side (which the first ever DC team-up surely does).

Studios seem to believe more the merrier, when it comes to adding characters these days to the superhero films. But unless they have an emotional weight to them (not lightweight, like we see in many movies), the FX tends to feel very empty. Like many I harbor doubts about BvS; my biggest concerns on Snyder, Goyer and some of the casting choices. Its a movie which has a lot to prove come 2016.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Even if MOS did a billion, they still would have gone to Batman/Superman or Justice League because The Avengers showed that team-ups have higher earnings potential.

 

[MrsKent26]

Studios seem to believe more the merrier, when it comes to adding characters these days to the superhero films. But unless they have an emotional weight to them (not lightweight, like we see in many movies), the FX tends to feel very empty. Like many I harbor doubts about BvS; my biggest concerns on Snyder, Goyer and some of the casting choices. Its a movie which has a lot to prove come 2016.

Yes, I reckon any movie with hallow characters will seem empty. Not unique to superhero movies and not dependent on the amount of characters.

 

[Herolee10]

Maybe it's just me, but I still think that this could very well be a "Superman" film at its core and center, but with the only difference (which separates it from a few superhero films) is that it involves a few big DC heroes in the mix.

 

[wallpaper]

Yea, but it's still far away. Wait until the trailers start showing up and it'll feel like MOS/Godzilla hype again...