BvS Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread. - Part 2

[Lencho01]

I think it's because some of the first critics mentioned them. And in general, people have got this assumption that when people complain about the tone of the film not being 'happy enough' it's because they got their idea of Superman from the 'happy' Donner films.

It's silly though.

Most people in the GA I know who went in to see MOS judged it only by the standard set by the modern wave of Superhero films. Not comparing it to something from the 70s.

Well, it's just the nature of comparing one film with the same character to another. I'm sure people compared the Raimi Spidey films with Webb's in their reviews too. And I've said many times before, the Dinner films are pretty old and by that nature, plenty of people have never seen them or saw them long ago, but it didn't make the same impression on them like current superhero flicks.

Even so, Superman for the most part has been depicted as a positive character when it comes to the general public. MOS Superman is different from that. It's the same reason why people react to Superman killing whenever it happens... it's out of character.

But, it is kinda weird how Goyer and Snyder wanted to act as if all other Superman stuff never happened and this is the first time people saw the character while enough of their stuff depends on the fact that you have some idea about the character or have seen the Donner films they were remaking.

 

[Reiter]

if the film was really bad we wouldn't be getting a sequel.

 

[Flint Marko]

It got an A- on CinemaScore which is pretty average am I right? That's what Cars 2 and Transformers 4 got. Doesn't seem like much of an achievement, which goes to show how poor of a gauge that website really is.
Also, LOL at not being able to speak our minds freely here. I can't share my hesitations about a film because this is a privately owned website? What in the world..?

 

[DA_Champion]

It got an A- on CinemaScore which is pretty average am I right? That's what Cars 2 and Transformers 4 got. Doesn't seem like much of an achievement, which goes to show how poor of a gauge that website really is.
Also, LOL at not being able to speak our minds freely here. I can't share my hesitations about a film because this is a privately owned website? What in the world..?

Imdb has a good spread, but it has theproblem that newer movies tend to be overrated.

 

[Mysteryman]

As much as I note the sarcasm p) I think a lot of my own feeling of 'sadness' from the film was around JK.

If they had just included some kind of happy family memory in there, I think it would have helped a lot. Like the Kents all sitting round the table for a home cooked meal, joking with each other. Or father and son playing ball in the garden and smiling with the dog jumping around...

I dunno... anything that showed his childhood was not all doom and gloom.

As it was, all they showed were lectures and speeches, and all of them with a heavy sense of sadness about them.

I kow it was after JK died ,
But the flashback to young Clark in his homemade cape could be thought of as a happy memory .

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Well, it's just the nature of comparing one film with the same character to another. I'm sure people compared the Raimi Spidey films with Webb's in their reviews too. And I've said many times before, the Dinner films are pretty old and by that nature, plenty of people have never seen them or saw them long ago, but it didn't make the same impression on them like current superhero flicks.

Even so, Superman for the most part has been depicted as a positive character when it comes to the general public. MOS Superman is different from that. It's the same reason why people react to Superman killing whenever it happens... it's out of character.

But, it is kinda weird how Goyer and Snyder wanted to act as if all other Superman stuff never happened and this is the first time people saw the character while enough of their stuff depends on the fact that you have some idea about the character or have seen the Donner films they were remaking.

Yeah I agree, I just meant that the majority of people I know who DIDN'T like the film, mentioned other modern superhero films as the reason why it was dissapointing... not previous Superman films.

It just didn't stack up next to other films in the same category (for some people).

I kow it was after JK died ,
But the flashback to young Clark in his homemade cape could be thought of as a happy memory .

Yeah that was the closest thing to it... but the placing of that scene (right after one of the most depressing and heart breaking moment in the film) makes it difficult to view it as a 'light' moment.

 

[Lencho01]

Yeah I agree, I just meant that the majority of people I know who DIDN'T like the film, mentioned other modern superhero films as the reason why it was dissapointing... not previous Superman films.

It just didn't stack up next to other films in the same category (for some people).

Yep. They also thought they would really like the film based on the trailers.

 

[roach]

This is what determines if a movie gets a sequel or not

 

[Jekecy]

It got an A- on CinemaScore which is pretty average am I right? That's what Cars 2 and Transformers 4 got. Doesn't seem like much of an achievement, which goes to show how poor of a gauge that website really is.

Cinemascores are genuinely confusing to me. They use a letter grading system, but completely ditch the commonly accepted values associated with each letter. A and A+ are the only "good scores" in that system. Even an A- is considered to be divisive and mixed (?!?). What are the other letters for then?

 

[Reiter]

This is what determines if a movie gets a sequel or not

Yes, exactly.

 

[roach]

Yes, exactly.

Benjamin Franklin

 

[The Shape]

I hate the title of this thread, and almost every time I pop in here, it's yet another discussion about whether MOS was good or not.

 

[roach]

I hate the title of this thread, and almost every time I pop in here, it's yet another discussion about whether MOS was good or not.

sort of like the Batman and Superman discussion thread

 

[Doppelganger]

Yep. They also thought they would really like the film based on the trailers.

Yes. They advertised the Man of Tomorrow and gave us the Man of Steel.

I feel so utterly depressed by MoS that I probably won't even go see DoJ right away, maybe not at all. I simply have no hope left for it. I remain open to surprises but I expect none.

 

[Lencho01]

Yes. They advertised the Man of Tomorrow and gave us the Man of Steel.

I feel so utterly depressed by MoS that I probably won't even go see DoJ right away, maybe not at all. I simply have no hope left for it. I remain open to surprises but I expect none.

Oh, wow. That never actually occurred to me. Good point, given used Morrison's words out of context.

Well, I'm pretty much indifferent and just waiting for the next reboot whenever that happens. If not, I got other means of Superman entertainment.

 

[Boy Scout]

I hate the title of this thread, and almost every time I pop in here, it's yet another discussion about whether MOS was good or not.

I think it's funny that MOS supporters, who have a history of complaining about MOS detractors derailing threads with their criticisms of the movie (legitimate or otherwise), come in here (a thread that has become a place where people who weren't necessarily fond of MOS can come to vent their frustrations or express trepidation for DOJ based on their experience with MOS) to complain about people complaining.

Everyone has the right to post where they want, when they want, and I'm by no means suggesting that MOS supporters, as a whole, are unwelcome here; however, their contributions, by and large, have been the equivalent of going into the Henry Cavill thread and complaining about people praising his acting 24/7.

 

[The Shape]

I think it's funny that MOS supporters, who have a history of complaining about MOS detractors derailing threads with their criticisms of the movie (legitimate or otherwise), come in here (a thread that has become a place where people who weren't necessarily fond of MOS can come to vent their frustrations or express trepidation for DOJ based on their experience with MOS) to complain about people complaining.

Everyone has the right to post where they want, when they want, and I'm by no means suggesting that MOS supporters, as a whole, are unwelcome here; however, their contributions, by and large, have been the equivalent of going into the Henry Cavill thread and complaining about people praising his acting 24/7.

What the hell does all that have to do with what I said?

 

[Boy Scout]

What the hell does all that have to do with what I said?

What do you think this thread is for? You hate the title of the thread and (unless I'm misunderstanding you, which is totally possible) that every time you come in here, we're discussing MOS and whether or not it's a good movie. It sounds like you're complaining about people complaining when that's kind of the point of this thread.

Again, I might have misunderstood what you were saying, and if so, I apologize. Either way, I wasn't specifically trying to call you out or target you. Your post, as I understood it, was just a recent and relevant example of something that I've always found slightly frustrating.

 

[Saint]

As I've said in the past, my fear isn't about Batman and Superman. Batman and Superman have endured bad movies before and will again; they aren't going anywhere.

Man of Steel was an okay film that could have been a great film, but Zack Snyder and company didn't really "get it." I don't want to get into a whole tirade about MOS, but in short, much like the over-the-top, inappropriately heroic action in Watchmen, the characterization of Superman is just off base. While Snyder is the perfect guy to go to for a faithful film, I think MOS and Watchmen both show that he isn't necessarily the right guy to go to for appropriate characterization and tone.

However, everything that was wrong in MOS can be fixed in a sequel. I don't know that it will be fixed, but I believe there's hope. Either way, good or bad, the movie isn't going to hurt Superman and Batman.

It may hurt Wonder Woman, though, and that's what we really need to be concerned about. Wonder Woman won't endure a bad film. The executives will say "Well, this just proves what we knew all along: the audience isn't interested in women." This is, in fact, the position they have long held, and they will revert to this position at the first opportunity.

And that... will be it. There won't be anymore Wonder Woman on film, not for a very long time. The ripple effect will also determine the fates of other DC properties, and probably not for the better.

Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it'll be bad and successful, like Transformers. I don't know what to expect if that were to happen, but I know I won't like it.

I sincerely hope Snyder knocks it out of the park this time, though, because the whole show is riding on this.

 

[metaphysician]

Everything you say influences the readers (unless) they dont understand the language. Often, people repeat what they read on these threads. Whats also sad is the fact that the negative things people say on this thread are either unfounded or completely wrong. No, I do not believe that you can speak your mind freely on this website since it is privately owned and are not beholden to any free speech laws (case in point, you can not use foul language here), snd that is why it is best to not post at all if you dont have your facts straight.

You realize how insane you sound, right?

 

[I Am The Knight]

Don't worry, dnno1 is a loony. Better not take him seriously.

 

[metaphysician]

And if he was saying that his experiance was a reflection of the majority, then you'd have a point.

But he wasn't.

He was just saying that the negative opinions that exist don't ALL come from Donner fanboys.

There are people who had no allegiances who just didn't like the film period.

I do have to wonder though. . . what kind of evidence for "direly mixed reaction" *would* he accept as being valid and accurate? Or would any evidence of a direly mixed reaction be rejected, because the conclusion ( "MoS got direly mixed reactions" ) is unacceptable?

 

[metaphysician]

I hate the title of this thread, and almost every time I pop in here, it's yet another discussion about whether MOS was good or not.

Honestly, what else would it be about? The biggest things that makes people concerned about SvB are "Zack Snyder" and "David Goyer". . . and the reason they make people concerned is "Man of Steel". So, its inevitably going to boil down to an argument over whether Man of Steel was any good or not.

 

[SilentWarriorZ]

I hope this movie to become a true successor of TDK giving us the batman who didn't retired and making it memorable in coming decades .

 

[Lencho01]

As I've said in the past, my fear isn't about Batman and Superman. Batman and Superman have endured bad movies before and will again; they aren't going anywhere.

Man of Steel was an okay film that could have been a great film, but Zack Snyder and company didn't really "get it." I don't want to get into a whole tirade about MOS, but in short, much like the over-the-top, inappropriately heroic action in Watchmen, the characterization of Superman is just off base. While Snyder is the perfect guy to go to for a faithful film, I think MOS and Watchmen both show that he isn't necessarily the right guy to go to for appropriate characterization and tone.

However, everything that was wrong in MOS can be fixed in a sequel. I don't know that it will be fixed, but I believe there's hope. Either way, good or bad, the movie isn't going to hurt Superman and Batman.

It may hurt Wonder Woman, though, and that's what we really need to be concerned about. Wonder Woman won't endure a bad film. The executives will say "Well, this just proves what we knew all along: the audience isn't interested in women." This is, in fact, the position they have long held, and they will revert to this position at the first opportunity.

And that... will be it. There won't be anymore Wonder Woman on film, not for a very long time. The ripple effect will also determine the fates of other DC properties, and probably not for the better.

Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it'll be bad and successful, like Transformers. I don't know what to expect if that were to happen, but I know I won't like it.

I sincerely hope Snyder knocks it out of the park this time, though, because the whole show is riding on this.

True that good or bad, Superman and Batman are in better positions that WW. There's Black Widow to look at as an example. I think audiences have responded well to her. Maybe moreso than characters like Storm and Jean, or Invisible Woman in their respective films. Not that I want or expect a Black Widow film to happen anytime soon, but it wouldn't surprise me if Marvel decided to make one.