is sentry the next big thing?

[Dread]

I still think its stupid.


I mean, all big companies lie. ALL OF THEM. Ok, comic books are a niche market so forth and so on, but they lied and then came clean about it. Colgate told me that its toothpaste would make my teeth whiter in 2 weeks, my teeth aren't any whiter than they were 2 weeks ago.

The Miramax example is funny, because it reminds me of the whole deal with Hostel. A lot of people went to see the movie thinking it was a Quentin Tarantino flick, because his name was so prominently placed in promotion. I haven't seen an outcry of anger by being mislead. Maybe its not the same thing, but honestly, that was more than 5 years ago. I hope you don't hold grudges like that with your girlfirend.

I don't have a girlfriend. Women know better.

I don't recall HOSTEL getting good reviews or breaking any records in box office sales.

All big companies lie. Agreed. My stance is, do we reward it and accept it or make some sort of line in the sand somewhere where there is a last straw. Sentry was my big, yellow straw. Maybe I was still raw over a lot of the 90's jargon with holo covers and crossovers and clones and Liefield and spikes and whatnot. It was a sham from start to finish, and I don't give a damn if Marvel proved mathematically like Reed Richards that not one soul would have gave it a try without a con game. Fortunately, Marvel hasn't done too many outright shams since. There was that business with ASTONISHING a while back, but that was to save a story twist in the Internet age, and so you had justification. And Marvel's tried new ploys to build hype to new franchises before, although to be fair few have worked. Plus, frankly, SENTRY despite that was dead in the water until Bendis decided on him for NEW AVENGERS, and then he arose to what he is today, a budding B-Lister who may become an A-Lister in another year.

Everyone is inflexible about some weird, irrational thing. This is one for me.

Hahahahahahahahahaha! Four paragraphs and 2 statements to answer Darthphere's question. Priceless!!!up:

I know. I just looked at that and thought, "I didn't want to get into it, yet there I went going into it." I can't help myself sometimes.

 

[Hades]

Hahaha, Sentry's Bi polar?

 

[Dread]

Hahaha, Sentry's Bi polar?

Lord knows, that was the slang term I chose to use. Basically Mr. Reynolds has two personas, The Void, which Jenkins has claimed is his "true self", and Sentry, who is all heroic, and at any moment Void could be unleashed, so sometimes Reynolds just wants to crawl under his bed until Mommy makes him soup.

I mean Sentry sometimes reminds me of this character from THE TICK VS. THE IDEA MEN:

"This looks like a job for BIPOLAR BEAR...but I just can't seem to get out of bed this month!"

Plus, well, PAD is doing the same sorts of issues better in X-FACTOR, I hear, with Madrox. Y'know, good dupes, bad dupes, how his core persona may not be all good, etc. And at least Madrox isn't like some DBZ character, who can at one moment wince at being hit with a rock or punch out the In-Betweener.

But by virtue of appearences on big books, I see Sentry getting big. If he's not big already. I think once he tweaks the costume design just a tad, like maybe if he ever "gets it more together", he'll really take off.

 

[Darthphere]

I don't have a girlfriend. Women know better.

I don't recall HOSTEL getting good reviews or breaking any records in box office sales.

I dont recall The Sentry doing any of the sort either.

All big companies lie. Agreed. My stance is, do we reward it and accept it or make some sort of line in the sand somewhere where there is a last straw. Sentry was my big, yellow straw. Maybe I was still raw over a lot of the 90's jargon with holo covers and crossovers and clones and Liefield and spikes and whatnot. It was a sham from start to finish, and I don't give a damn if Marvel proved mathematically like Reed Richards that not one soul would have gave it a try without a con game. Fortunately, Marvel hasn't done too many outright shams since. There was that business with ASTONISHING a while back, but that was to save a story twist in the Internet age, and so you had justification. And Marvel's tried new ploys to build hype to new franchises before, although to be fair few have worked. Plus, frankly, SENTRY despite that was dead in the water until Bendis decided on him for NEW AVENGERS, and then he arose to what he is today, a budding B-Lister who may become an A-Lister in another year.

Everyone is inflexible about some weird, irrational thing. This is one for me.

So much anger. Maybe it was because when I read the mini, I didn't read the whole Wizard business and such, but frankly just like you will not have your mind changed, I think its petty and stupid really.

 

[herakles]

You have no clue what your talking about, all you see is an "S" and a cape and you assume he's a rip-off, anybody who has enough common sense know that he is Marvels Superman, but he is nothing like Supes, he is not a rip-off, your just talking out of yor ass.

maybe he is BUT HE IS RIGHT! Sentry sucks!

 

[supermarvelman]

Thats fine if you think the Sentry sucks, but dont talk like you know what your talking about when you dont. Gp ahead say "I hate Sentry, he SUCKS", but to say he is a lazy cheap rip-off means you obviously dont know what your talking about. In the end I dont have the right to tell you what you can and cant say, but if your gonna say something atleast know what your talking about.

 

[Dread]

I dont recall The Sentry doing any of the sort either.

So much anger. Maybe it was because when I read the mini, I didn't read the whole Wizard business and such, but frankly just like you will not have your mind changed, I think its petty and stupid really.

Nice avatar, BTW. Great scene from a great comic.

Yeah, like I said, even with the ruse, THE SENTRY didn't see a return after that mini until NEW AVENGERS years later, so it probably didn't bust the bank (or Jenkins was never offered an ongoing and no other writer dared touch it). I think at the time they also had ads in comic shops about it and there was that buzz that it was some long lost thing; after all, back then the Internet community wasn't nearly so big so Wizard had more power than it does today. Anyway, it was successful as a whole I think although Sentry did nada for 4 years afterwards.

My thing is, why did they need the hoax? They should have let the character stand on his own if he and Jenkin's series was so gosh darned terrific, and not done a bait-and-switch.

And I love how you allieve any responsibility on Marvel or Wizard's behalf and go, "it was your fault for collecting Wizard magazine". Pfft. My point it that it was a shameless move that I'd like to soon forget, and thankfully Marvel & Wizard haven't dipped that low again.

I don't wish flaming death on the character, I just am disinterested. You never overcome that first impression. Maybe if I happened upon the first trade in a library I might give it a whurl if I had time to kill, but I'd never pay a red cent for it.

 

[jaydawg]

Hostel came out last year...... Besides, it was the ****ty quality of the film, not tarantino's name that pissed me off. Hell, I hate everything he's made but Kill Bill vol 2. As for the whole Marvel lied debate, I personally liked that they tired to fool the fans... and not in the sterotypical Joe Q way. Stan Lee was in on it. The problem with your analogy Dread is that Hitchcock died years ago while Stan is still kickin ass.

Anyways, if Sentry ever got an on going, I'd keep Jenkins there. It's completely his baby. Anyone thats read that Jenkin/Stan Lee mini story knows exactly why.

 

[supermarvelman]

You didn't like Pulp Fiction?

 

[Hades]

Lord knows, that was the slang term I chose to use. Basically Mr. Reynolds has two personas, The Void, which Jenkins has claimed is his "true self", and Sentry, who is all heroic, and at any moment Void could be unleashed, so sometimes Reynolds just wants to crawl under his bed until Mommy makes him soup.

I mean Sentry sometimes reminds me of this character from THE TICK VS. THE IDEA MEN:

"This looks like a job for BIPOLAR BEAR...but I just can't seem to get out of bed this month!"

Plus, well, PAD is doing the same sorts of issues better in X-FACTOR, I hear, with Madrox. Y'know, good dupes, bad dupes, how his core persona may not be all good, etc. And at least Madrox isn't like some DBZ character, who can at one moment wince at being hit with a rock or punch out the In-Betweener.

But by virtue of appearences on big books, I see Sentry getting big. If he's not big already. I think once he tweaks the costume design just a tad, like maybe if he ever "gets it more together", he'll really take off.

Lol, that sounds like me

Bi polar bear. That's hillarious.

 

[herakles]

Thats fine if you think the Sentry sucks, but dont talk like you know what your talking about when you dont. Gp ahead say "I hate Sentry, he SUCKS", but to say he is a lazy cheap rip-off means you obviously dont know what your talking about. In the end I dont have the right to tell you what you can and cant say, but if your gonna say something atleast know what your talking about.

First of all you don't know what I know and second I don't say that I just agreed with him that Sentry sucks! Again you don't know what I know or don't know!

 

[supermarvelman]

I wasnt talking about you herakles I was talking about the person I had first responded to Eros, so calm your ass down. Or I'll take you down, down to China Town.

 

[Darthphere]

Nice avatar, BTW. Great scene from a great comic.

Thanks, but stop kissing my ass.

Yeah, like I said, even with the ruse, THE SENTRY didn't see a return after that mini until NEW AVENGERS years later, so it probably didn't bust the bank (or Jenkins was never offered an ongoing and no other writer dared touch it). I think at the time they also had ads in comic shops about it and there was that buzz that it was some long lost thing; after all, back then the Internet community wasn't nearly so big so Wizard had more power than it does today. Anyway, it was successful as a whole I think although Sentry did nada for 4 years afterwards.

If it was so succesful, wouldn't evil Marvel be jumping at the chance to steal more money from your wallets? Lets be real, it was a moderate scuccess if anything.

My thing is, why did they need the hoax? They should have let the character stand on his own if he and Jenkin's series was so gosh darned terrific, and not done a bait-and-switch.

Marketing. Its that easy. Like you've said oh so many times before, its rare that all new characters survive and are well recieved. And The Sentry mini came out during a vulnerable time in the industry, so anything that could help the book out was all good.

And I love how you allieve any responsibility on Marvel or Wizard's behalf and go, "it was your fault for collecting Wizard magazine". Pfft. My point it that it was a shameless move that I'd like to soon forget, and thankfully Marvel & Wizard haven't dipped that low again.

Oh Dread, does the violin get heavy after a while. Poor baby. I did nothing of the sort, and how you came to that conclusion is laughable. All I said was that I didn't buy Wizard back then, so I had no knowledge of the hype or "shameless move" being done. The thing that I find funny was, its not even like they caught you in the act. You have admittedly haven't even read the story itself. So its not like you feel betrayed financially or something. You haven't even read it. And you're coming off like a martyr of the comic book community, the vast majority of which, got over any ill feelings about the situation long ago.

I don't wish flaming death on the character, I just am disinterested. You never overcome that first impression. Maybe if I happened upon the first trade in a library I might give it a whurl if I had time to kill, but I'd never pay a red cent for it.

Bull****. This is the second time I hear you say this. You can always overcome a first impression. You're just too stubborn or too busy playing martyr to do anything to change that first impression.

 

[Eros]

I wasnt talking about you herakles I was talking about the person I had first responded to Eros, so calm your ass down. Or I'll take you down, down to China Town.

Sentry has so far been a major disapointment.

 

[Union Jack]

the sentry's mini's were great..i liked the relationship between him and the hulk...and it was an interesting spin to see sentry being the unwanted side of roberts personality..he was actually the void.
so far has hasnt been a disapointment..cos he hasnt been used enough to warrent being a disappointment...
maybe in this mighty avengers he may get the chance to shine.
the scene with him and captain marvel in civil war the return was cool too.

given enough time and good writing hopefully sentry will be a great character.

 

[November Rain]

if sentry is here to stay, he needs a better costume, i say they ditch the cape to start off with...

 

[supermarvelman]

Sentry has so far been a major disapointment.

Big deal, besides he's first mini years ago, he hasnt been around that long since he returned in New Avengers. After hius first mini, he was "forgotten again", he was barely used in New Avengers, he didnt have much time to shine. Every story that's been focused on him has been damn good, his first mini, his story arc in NA, and his second mini. 10 years from now all this doubt will be forgotten.

 

[supermarvelman]

the sentry's mini's were great..i liked the relationship between him and the hulk...and it was an interesting spin to see sentry being the unwanted side of roberts personality..he was actually the void.
so far has hasnt been a disapointment..cos he hasnt been used enough to warrent being a disappointment...
maybe in this mighty avengers he may get the chance to shine.
the scene with him and captain marvel in civil war the return was cool too.

given enough time and good writing hopefully sentry will be a great character.

Exactly, slow clap.

 

[supermarvelman]

if sentry is here to stay, he needs a better costume, i say they ditch the cape to start off with...

No IMO his costume is really good, keep the belt, keep the Cape, not that many characters in Marvel have capes, let him keep it, it adds to his greatness.

 

[Spidey17]

I like him as a character, with his mental problems. That is a hell of a lot cooler than Supes, whose biggest flaw is rock from his home planet.

 

[supermarvelman]

Same here.

 

[Dread]

Hostel came out last year...... Besides, it was the ****ty quality of the film, not tarantino's name that pissed me off. Hell, I hate everything he's made but Kill Bill vol 2. As for the whole Marvel lied debate, I personally liked that they tired to fool the fans... and not in the sterotypical Joe Q way. Stan Lee was in on it. The problem with your analogy Dread is that Hitchcock died years ago while Stan is still kickin ass.

Anyways, if Sentry ever got an on going, I'd keep Jenkins there. It's completely his baby. Anyone thats read that Jenkin/Stan Lee mini story knows exactly why.

Touche'. I never said my analogy was perfect. I mean Stan did play along, and I'm sure he felt it was a fun way to build up some new character. I disagree, but whatever. I'd say that it was a bit of a low blow getting Stan Lee, a legend that all Marvel fans trust, to lie for them, but I guess I just did. It's like if George Stienbrenner got Yogie Berra to lie to Yankees fans to promote something. Thankfully, this tactic was never used again.

I do agree on allowing Jenkins to write Sentry if he gets an ongoing. I mean, it IS Jenkins' creation so much like with YA and Heinberg and RUNAWAYS with BKV, so long as he feels he still has worthwhile stories to tell with Sentry, give him a go.

Admittedly, it felt odd but even with a totally random backup story in THE RETURN, I liked Jenkins' Sentry dialogue better than Bendis'.

Lol, that sounds like me

Bi polar bear. That's hillarious.

I know. THE TICK was awesome. I have the whole series on bootleg.

Thanks, but stop kissing my ass.

Fine. No compliments for you! *said in SOUP NAZI voice*

If it was so succesful, wouldn't evil Marvel be jumping at the chance to steal more money from your wallets? Lets be real, it was a moderate scuccess if anything.

I admitted that it was a moderate "scuccess" in so many words. I never said it was a bombastic hit. The point was brought up to basically say, "Look, Dread, even after they B.S.'d about it, it didn't sell 200,000 copies and Sentry went nowhere for FOUR entire years, so stop hatin' on it." That doesn't change the fact that I disliked the tactic. Especially by the nature of his origin, he has to be retconned in as some fantastically awesome guy we should all like, because he was the first until Mastermind and General got to him and made everyone forget. Blarg.

Marketing. Its that easy. Like you've said oh so many times before, its rare that all new characters survive and are well recieved. And The Sentry mini came out during a vulnerable time in the industry, so anything that could help the book out was all good.

By that logic, no marketting ploy is ever dishonest or in bad faith if it produced even a moderate success. Yes, yes, I know, in the world of business, anything that produces a profit is a success. I don't have to like it. And, as I keep saying, Marvel & Wizard have never tried this ploy again, likely because they know that controversy it caused at the time, and considering that Marvel has never found a bad idea that wasn't worth repeating, that is commendable.

I'm all for aggressive marketting for new characters. Just this tactic for SENTRY was the height of cynicism and lack of any faith in the reading public, and that is insulting.

Oh Dread, does the violin get heavy after a while. Poor baby. I did nothing of the sort, and how you came to that conclusion is laughable. All I said was that I didn't buy Wizard back then, so I had no knowledge of the hype or "shameless move" being done. The thing that I find funny was, its not even like they caught you in the act. You have admittedly haven't even read the story itself. So its not like you feel betrayed financially or something. You haven't even read it. And you're coming off like a martyr of the comic book community, the vast majority of which, got over any ill feelings about the situation long ago.

By saying you had no knowedge of the Wizard thing, it is a reasonable conclusion to reason you meant, "maybe your problem was reading Wizard and taking it too seriously at the time", much as when I complain about some past Marvel solicts having spoilers for a variety of issues and storylines, some Marvel apologist will always go, "It's your own fault for reading them". So if I am a rabid, addicted fan, I should be punished for it. Brilliant. Anyway, if you didn't mean that, well, that's okay.

THE SENTRY came out when I was either finishing HS or starting college and was shortly before I started buying comics monthly again, which was in Fall 2000 to early 2001 (I'd stopped during high school, funneling a lot of my spare cash into anime). I was barely interested at the time but when the hoax was revealed, I definately felt that it was an underhanded move and thought, "Oh, well, NOW I DEFINATELY won't read it." And that wasn't an issue until Sentry popped up in NEW AVENGERS and is where he is now, a budding B-Lister moving on up.

Maybe it's petty, but to me reading THE SENTRY is rewarding a once-tried, never repeated marketting ploy of getting classic creators, a fanboy mag and the EIC's in a room and telling a blatent, bold faced lie for a sale. It's like giving a sleazy car salesman a high five. I've never really been that interested in the character anyway, just that's like a foundation of dung for me.

Bull****. This is the second time I hear you say this. You can always overcome a first impression. You're just too stubborn or too busy playing martyr to do anything to change that first impression.

The only thing anyone knows about Robin Givens is, "she posed for Playboy as Miss America". People still call Pres. Bush a ****** for his "Bushisms" in 2000 and consider him "an unelected President". And has Vanilla Ice ever escaped the 90's?

Overcoming a first impression is very difficult, if possible at all. I can't for the life of me think of anyone where I went, "Y'know, when we first met you were a total scumbag and now you're my best friend" or of anyone who felt the same way towards me. With things like comics where sometimes our biggest loves and hates come from simple, emotional connections from our past (my liking of Spider-Man stemming from watching SPIDER-FRIENDS around when SMURFS came on as a toddler, for instance), this can be especially difficult. Whenever I see SENTRY I just remember the scam first and everything and anything else second, and that's that.

Besides, there are too many trades that I "should" be buying with any spare cash that I would love to, and THE SENTRY, beyond supporting a scam, has never seemed to rise to the forefront over the dozens and dozens of trades I never have the cash for. Especially when I am not majorly interested in him anyway.

 

[Darthphere]

I wish Dread would point me to a "dignified" marketing ploy.

Also, the marketing ploy was such a genius tie in with the theme of the book, which was all about a forgotten hero from the past.

 

[The Leaguer]

The Sentry is a massive waste of time, and Dread is his number one victim.

 

[Dread]

I wish Dread would point me to a "dignified" marketing ploy.

Also, the marketing ploy was such a genius tie in with the theme of the book, which was all about a forgotten hero from the past.

"Dignified"? That's easy. How about IMMORTAL IRON FIST? No problem with that one. Rand had some hype from his stint as DD, full page ads in comics, articles in WIZARD and Newsarama, and an A-List creative team of the red-hot Brubaker and Aja, as well as Fraction and others for flashbacks. That's just off the top of my head. Basically, any marketting ploy that doesn't have a counsel of people outright LYING, I don't mean "spin" or manipulation but a bold faced, straight up lie, is better. And like I have kept saying, THE SENTRY's hoax was fortunately never repeated, so they learned their lesson.

I mean around the same time periods was the gimmick of "Writer X" for THE BROTHERHOOD, but that was a gimmick, not a lie. And that also didn't last.

The Sentry is a massive waste of time, and Dread is his number one victim.

What do you mean? I didn't even read any of his mini's.