Is the Punisher REALLY insane?

[Horrorfan]

Ok, the thing is, I notice a lot of characters seem to keep refering as Punisher as insane....I would highly, highly dispute this. Of course some people would consider dressing up in lycra insane too, so maybe they are just jealous he has very few villains who repeat offend :P

But my point (avoiding the subject of punisher's actions being justified or not) is, that he is not insane. He clearly knows what he is doing, he knows why he is doing it...I do agree that he's probably not in the greatest of mental and emotional health, but he's not insane. I just saw him as a normal guy who was pushed beyond normal limits by the faliure of the justice system and who decided to do something about it.

He kills for punishment, not revenge, and the subject of crime and punishment is different in many people's eyes. He doesn't kill those who are innocent, he has never had collatoral damage, and takes great effort to ensure that.

So what do you guys think? Is Punisher bat **** insane, or just a sane guy pushed beyond reason who decided to push back?

 

[PhotoJones]

Is the Punisher insane?

Yes.

 

[Horrorfan]

Is the Punisher insane?

Yes.

How so?

I mean, do you know what I mean by insane? Like no logic, rationality, etc...and the Punisher has logic for what he does, no matter if you agree with it or not (and I know some people don't really have a problem with the way he does things)....

The Joker is insane. You surely can't compare Punisher to him?

 

[PhotoJones]

Anyone who murders people based on their own standards of conduct is insane.

 

[Horrorfan]

Anyone who murders people based on their own standards of conduct is insane.

You mean those who break the law?

I'm pretty sure he uses common sense most of the time...I have never seen him go round shooting jay walkers for example. I have no problem with him offing rapists, muggers, etc, because they cross a line of physical violence and intimidation for the sake of it. Surely even you can't make these guys out to be innocent victims? I mean do you really think these aren't genuinely bad people? Really?

 

[Fried Gold]

How so?

I mean, do you know what I mean by insane? Like no logic, rationality, etc...and the Punisher has logic for what he does, no matter if you agree with it or not (and I know some people don't really have a problem with the way he does things)....

The Joker is insane. You surely can't compare Punisher to him?

If you don't think he's insane, then you're insane.

 

[Horrorfan]

If you don't think he's insane, then you're insane.

Funny enough, I think that if you think he is insane, you are at least very, very naive and misguided....but I'm pretty sure I have a good idea anyone who thinks that probably doesn't live in the real world anyway :P

I'm just guessing that you guys are a little confused by what I mean by insane.....I think you are getting it confused. He knows what he's doing, the people he kills deserve it 100%.....I don't see anything insane about it.

The Joker is insane. The Carnage is insane. If you can't see the difference between them and Punisher, then boy...I don't really know what to say to you, because you are beyond that point of trying to rationally trying to get to see what I'm trying to say.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

He's not really insane, he's just a sociopath. The accepted rules of society--and the concept of a measured response, for that matter--hold no sway for him.

 

[PhotoJones]

You mean those who break the law?

I'm pretty sure he uses common sense most of the time...I have never seen him go round shooting jay walkers for example. I have no problem with him offing rapists, muggers, etc, because they cross a line of physical violence and intimidation for the sake of it. Surely even you can't make these guys out to be innocent victims? I mean do you really think these aren't genuinely bad people? Really?

Does everyone that commits a crime deserve to die?

 

[Skullbearer]

Insane? No.

Just really really angry .... all the time.

 

[Fried Gold]

Funny enough, I think that if you think he is insane, you are at least very, very naive and misguided....but I'm pretty sure I have a good idea anyone who thinks that probably doesn't live in the real world anyway :P

I'm just guessing that you guys are a little confused by what I mean by insane.....I think you are getting it confused. He knows what he's doing, the people he kills deserve it 100%.....I don't see anything insane about it.

The Joker is insane. The Carnage is insane. If you can't see the difference between them and Punisher, then boy...I don't really know what to say to you, because you are beyond that point of trying to rationally trying to get to see what I'm trying to say.

Are you aware that the Punisher made a deal with a voice in his own head to continue the 'war' after Vietnam had ended?

 

[Horrorfan]

Does everyone that commits a crime deserve to die?

Depends on the crime. Like I say, I don't see him executing say prostitutes which is illegal most places, or jay walkers or minor crimes...he mainly seems to deal with the violent offenders who are a threat to the innocent. But murders, rapists, drug dealers? Hells yes I think the world is a better place without them.

Corpulant seems to understand what I meant...I do agree he is a sociopath if anything, but not truly insane. I think people seem to have a misunderstanding of insanity here, which isn't really a fault since mental disorders have a great deal of confusion around them...but insanity is the Joker (arguably has sociopathic tendancies too).

 

[Horrorfan]

Are you aware that the Punisher made a deal with a voice in his own head to continue the 'war' after Vietnam had ended?

No I wasn't...when was that?

Plus, that kinda makes no sense...I have no doubt it happened, but Vietnam has never been the reason he fights crime...otherwise he would do it before his wife and kids died....and as far as I know, he hasn't gone on a killing spree of vietnamese people, so I don't see how he continued that war?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It was in Ennis' fantabulous Born mini-series. Although that probably applies strictly to the MAX Punisher, not the 616 Punisher.

 

[Fried Gold]

It was in Ennis' fantabulous Born mini-series. Although that probably applies strictly to the MAX Punisher, not the 616 Punisher.

I don't tend to differentiate between the two.

 

[Horrorfan]

It was in Ennis' fantabulous Born mini-series. Although that probably applies strictly to the MAX Punisher, not the 616 Punisher.

Was it really good? It sounds kinda...lame. Because I never have noticed Punisher trying to carry on the vietnam war, and I don't see the relevance to the personal war on crime....they were two seperate things...but maybe it makes sense when you read it, but right now it sounds kinda ill thought out....

 

[Fried Gold]

he hasn't gone on a killing spree of vietnamese people, so I don't see how he continued that war?

I think you took 'war' a little too literally there.

 

[Horrorfan]

Don'I think you took 'war' a little too literally there.

What sense did you , or the comic, mean?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't tend to differentiate between the two.

Your brain must be extra-special if it doesn't differentiate between the 50-something Vietnam veteran in the MAX series and the 30-something random war veteran of the mainstream Marvel comics.

 

[Fried Gold]

What sense did you , or the comic, mean?

EDIT: Link not working. Run a wiki search for Punisher Born.

 

[PhotoJones]

Depends on the crime. Like I say, I don't see him executing say prostitutes which is illegal most places, or jay walkers or minor crimes...he mainly seems to deal with the violent offenders who are a threat to the innocent. But murders, rapists, drug dealers? Hells yes I think the world is a better place without them.

Corpulant seems to understand what I meant...I do agree he is a sociopath if anything, but not truly insane. I think people seem to have a misunderstanding of insanity here, which isn't really a fault since mental disorders have a great deal of confusion around them...but insanity is the Joker (arguably has sociopathic tendancies too).

It's insane for any one man to think of himself as judge, jury and executioner. You asked for people's thoughts. You got mine. Either accept it, or move on.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

"The Punisher's not Judge Judy and executioner!"

 

[Horrorfan]

It's insane for any one man to think of himself as judge, jury and executioner. You asked for people's thoughts. You got mine. Either accept it, or move on.

I agree but you can discuss it can't you? Or there was no point of posting....I mean, you can't see rapists or murderers of kids and innocents as equal to yourself right? You are a better person than them by virtue of the fact you have never done that to someone...do you see my point?

 

[Fried Gold]

Your brain must be extra-special if it doesn't differentiate between the 50-something Vietnam veteran in the MAX series and the 30-something random war veteran of the mainstream Marvel comics.

It's still the same person, you spanner. It's not like the Ultimate universe where it's a totally new mythology.

 

[PhotoJones]

I agree but you can discuss it can't you? Or there was no point of posting....I mean, you can't see rapists or murderers of kids and innocents as equal to yourself right? You are a better person than them by virtue of the fact you have never done that to someone...do you see my point?

You don't really discuss, though, and that's my point. All you do is try and try and try to make people see it your way, which ultimately you think is not just the best way, but the only way.

I think that going around murdering people, whether they deserve it or not, is not normal behavior. It's sociopathic, and what we would just label as "insane". No, it's not the textbook definition of insanity, but I would call him insane.