Jack Kirby's Fourth World

[Artistsean]

This is sort of my pitch,
I think Jack Kirby's Fourth World would make the perfect 3 (to 4) movie Epic. I picture it being done in the same way that Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, and various other movies set in their own universe were done.
Fourth World is a story that takes place far far away from us. If the studios took the film as seriosly as those films, especially LOTR, then it would be a huge and epic trillogy.

The film would fallow Jack Kirby's original storyline, about the warring planets: the power hungry Apocalypse and peaceful New Genisis. I see several Fourth World characters starring, not just Orion and Darksied, but all the other characters in Fourth World.

The star though, of coarse, would be Orion, the son of Darkseid who was traded for Scott Free in a peace effort with New Genisis.

Like Frodo or Luke, he is the films star but not its only main character.
Orion is described as a Dog or War by Jack Kirby, he should be what Kirby's original idea for him was.

Highfather is another character, a sort of Obi-Won of the film. He is the leader of New Genisis. He and his planet preach peace and that the future belongs to the young.

Mister Miracle

and

Big Barda

as well as

The Forever People, who have been descrived as a group of hippies.

And these are just some of the good guys for starters.

Throughout the trilogy the audiance would be introduced to various characters as the story progressed, not all would be the main stars and may only be seen shortly or in the background like in LOTR.

This film would not only be a film about Superheroes and villians, but have an underlying message about war (particularly the Vietnam War since that is what Kirby was writing it about.)

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This thread has been OKed by hunter rider.
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[Artistsean]

More of the New Genisis characters:

Lightray

Black Racer

Metron

Forager I

These are the main heroes I see being featured throughout the Three Film Epic.

Then there are the bad guys from Apokolips lead by their dark and powerful leader

Darkseid
But like the series shows, he wouldn't be the only evil they fight. He leads his planet in war against New Genisis.

his wife Tigra

his son Kalibak the Cruel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_Furies

 

[Artistsean]

Darksied has his minions, those who are second or third in command but want to be number one.

Granny Goodness

Female Furies

Kanto

Steppenwolf

Virman Vundabar

and like the army of Orcs or Storm Troopers Darksied has his Parademons

Parademons

Mantis

 

[deathshead2]

why does it need to be 3 movies.
Just let it be continuous.
So people can get as much detail as possible in many films.

Cus with only 3 everyone will just ***** and complain like always.

 

[Artistsean]

I don't know if 3 or four films are not enough or too much, but 4th World is a massive story and I think they should try and include or incorporate the over 50 stories from the original run of 4th World, including the end titled "Hunger Dogs".

And Lord of the Rings and the original 3 Star Wars were enough to feature all its many characters while still focussing on the main stars.
and like these two films I think the audiance should feel like they have been through a massive journey to get to the end.

 

[Artistsean]

Oh, and can't forget to include Desaad
Darksied's master of torture

Of coarse the whole reality would have to be designed too, including the two worlds (Apocalypse and New Genisis) as well as the costumes, technology, and creaters. And the design used should be as close to Kirby's design as possible.

New Genisis would look like a floating city of the future. Clean and shiny.

I read that it could have represented California at the time Fourth World weas written, full of Hippies and peace and love and anti establishment.

 

[Artistsean]

As for Apocalypse:

I imagin Apocalypse looking alot like the version shown on the Superman cartoon shows. I think it should also be kept as close to Kirby's design as much as possible.
With the flame pits, the large stone statues of Darkseid, the tortued citizens, the city entirely covered with buidings without a trace of plant life. I her this world might have been intended to be a symbol of the corporate world at the time, also the war and war mongers.

 

[The Empire Ape]

well, if you watch

"Masters of the universe" with Dolph Lundgren

you'll see a lot of Jack Kirby influence.

It's almost a "New Gods" movie.

 

[Artistsean]

I think I see what you mean, but its been a while since I have seen that movie.
What do you mean?

Here is more details of Apocalypse:

Wouldn't it be cool to see this brought to the big screen.
One of the cool things about this movie would be all the visual development that would go int it. Kirby created a world seperate from this one, with its own worlds, technology, clothing, rulers, and so on.
I think it would be great to see those things brought to life.

 

[Artistsean]

I see 4th World taking about 3-4 films, with one story that spans the these films (much like Lord of the Rings. (In fact they could even film all the films at the same time like Lord of the Rings did.)

the technology, Kirby had a very cool style when he drew technology,

I would love to see such things as Boom Tubes, and all the various technologies of New Genisis and Apocalypse made into real props for the movie.
It reminds me of (again) Star Wars or Lord of the Rings or other movies like that, where they had to build this whole reality. Create the world that doesn't realy exist and make it seem like it does.
In the Lord of the Rings DVD they talked about different ranks of Orc Soldiers and the desgins on the armors. Very cool stuff, I would love if that level of detail in creating that reality went into bringing the 4th World to life.
I would also like to see these 3-4 films take the Sin City rout in trying to bring to life on the big screen the drawings in the comics, especially the technology and the landscaps.
It would also be cool if, like Sin City, they gave credit to its creator up front before any other names. Jack Kirby's Fourth World.

 

[C. Lee]

A studio would have to be willing to put up a huge chunk of change to do it properly. It would take at the least three movies......and preferably six or more to incorporate everything. It could be the next giant science fiction franchise.

 

[Artistsean]

That is exactly what I was thinking.

 

[dnno1]

This is why I don't think that Darkseid should be in any Superman or Justice League film. He would be needed to support this franchise if it ever happens (and I think it should).

 

[Artistsean]

I thought that too, I mean Darkseid was created by Jack Kirby for this story anyway. Plus they could always go the rout of the current DC films (Dark Knight, Superman Returns, JLA) and have none of them relate to each other and have it be a different version of the character.
Darksied in Fourth World could be a different version of Darkseid from a JLA sequal. (because he would be an AWESOME villian for a JLA sequal. Perfect.)

Here are some more pictures, of things that would be great to see made physical in the movies:

Mother Box

Barda's Mega-rod

and there is something that would be awesome to see made in props, even though Kirby never showed it in the original New Gods story:

Source Wall
(but again Kirby never showed it so maybe it shouldn't be included.)

 

[The Guard]

I don't know that you could tell ALL of the great stories in three films, but you could tell the most interesting ones in a single film (Highfather, Orion, Lightray and Scott Free, Darkseid and his minions), and leave room for a sequel to delve into the time after Darkseid's fall. A NEW GODS film could easily be spun out of a Justice League movie featuring Darkseid, and act as a prequel AND a sequel, which would be cool.

 

[CFE]

I had the idea of Warners doing a New Gods film years ago.

There are so many untapped properties DC has to offer...

JSA
Uncle Sam's Freedom Fighters
Sgt. Rock and the Blackhawks
The Ray
Deadman

Even smaller details like the Black Zero and their war on Krypton...or the civil upheavel on Krypton about Cloning or what happened to the city of Kandor...

Warners. doesn't seem to realize that there's more to DC than Superman and Batman...

CFE

 

[Lobo]

Seeing as how after Superman and Wonder Woman the 4th world is full of my favorite characters, I'd totally support this and have atotal geekgasm if it ever happened

 

[The Guard]

CFE...it's not like WB can afford to just make an endless amount of DC Comics films. It's not quite that simple.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

I would think a Fourth World film could be huge,especially if the technology was done right.I think the story could be on it's own,without Superman.

 

[Artistsean]

Time wise? I think 3-6 films is good, 6 might be pushing it in terms of audiance acceptance (and wainting all that time) but also getting a studio to grant that. To get the funding from a studio for as many films as the entire story would require the pitch would have to be outstanding.

I was thinking, I never read LOTR but saw the movies, did the film cut stuff out or anything like that? I would hate for the film to trim down Jack's story (which I haven't been able to read "YET".)

Going back to audiance waiting for each film and careing, if they first film is a smash the others would be, and if they film all the films at the same time (like LOTR) then they could just release one each summer.

I also don't think this has to be connected at all to any other DC franchise like JLA or Superman, I would like Darkseid to be in one of those films though (he would be a great JLA bad guy) so maybe if they wanted to use him it could be like what they are doing with Batman and Superman in the JLA film (not at all connected to the other franchises, not the same Batman or Superman).

Here is a little how "making Darkseid" could go:

Spoiler

Sizing Chart, to show how big the wrestler could be
(this is actually how tall Kane is I think):

Again, using Lord of the Rings as an example, use a body double (like a wrestler's body), and like LOTR CG over another actors face (someone who has the acting ability and who has the voice.) And like LOTR use prosthetics and make up to make the actor look the part (probably both the actor and the body double).
I imagin Kalibak would be done in a very similar way (only his CGed head would be bigger than some of the others (maybe only slightly, or maybe not at all).
I was even thinking Granny Goodness could be played by a guy (like when Ed Asner did her voice in the Timm cartoons) and then use prosthetics and special effects (like the ones used in Norbert, never saw it [looked bad] but they made Eddie Murphy look like a Woman in the commercials).
Or maybe use the effects on an actress.

I was even thinking the whole problem most films have witht the colorful costumes wouldn't really be a problem here either.
New Genisis is a Utopia of peace and joy and posative energy. So their citizens wear colorful clothes, while Apokolypse is a dark and hellish place and most of their citizens where darker clothing. There would also be lighting and effects.
Would that work for the film you think?

 

[kirbyfan]

Artistsean, this is one of the very best ideas I've read on any forum in a long time!

Let's all get in contact with whoever we need to and e-mail them and let them know that we want a Jack Kirby Fourth World movie, and we want it now!

Seriously we should let someone know how great this would be, any suggestions?

 

[Artistsean]

We could do that, I guess that could work. Let the studios know fans would be interested.
If you write up a form or something, I'll sign it I suppose.

I think the best, or at least a semi good way, is if someone like Peter Jackson (or a big time director) actually pitched it to a studio.

And that got me to thinking, who would the pitch go? I sure would like to hear George Lucas' pitch for Star Wars or hear Jackson's Pitch for Lord of the Rings (another trilogy based on a book). And maybe coming up with details on stuff like FX and make up (such as the Darksied picture) might help the studios see how much it would cost.
Maybe it would be smart to use a permeire movie program and edit all the Orion/Darkseid/New Gods clips (from Superman, JL, JLU, and Superfriends) together in a short film to demonstrait the characters apeal or something.
Probably something else that would help the studio is to refference other epic (and successful) movies, like compare this trilogy to Lord ot the Rings/Star Wars/ the Matrix, compare the main character of Orion to (I don't know), and so on.
Or to write a script, or something like that.
Also I think a style packet should be made using nothing but Kirby art and 4th world Kirby stuff.
I think the main point, or one of them, is that the film should be taken seriously. Like LOTR or Star Wars, an epic trilogy about war and not just some spandex and cape wearing silly comic characters. (which is still how some comic films are seen by non comic fans.)
I think the studios main concern would be money, would they be willing to spend lots of money (big LOTR epic movie money) and not really being sure about the audiance? What would make them sure?

How do you think the Pitch would go? Does anyone know how any epic trilogies were pitched?

[BLACKOUT]I'll post more art soon, more 4th world Kirby art.?[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Artistsean]

Here are some more pictures to help paint the movie:

and even though I don't think this came from 4th World, it does demonstrait the style that could be used in the film in terms of architecture and technology and such (based on Kirby's art)

just some more art:

Also, technology featured in the movie:
Mr. Miracle's flying disc things should be shown too.

 

[The Empire Ape]

i am a 4th world fan, too but i do not think it would work on screen. It would look ridiculous and I don't want them to change it into something else.

Watch "Masters of the universe". It has a lot of Kirby references, they go to earth in a boom tube!

 

[Artistsean]

I am not sure how rediculous it would look, I don't think any changes have to be made either. It would be hard, and probably expensive,
but thats why I used Star Wars and Lord of the Rings as examples. If the studio aproached the films (3-4, 4 for 4th World) with the same respect and quality they did with the Lord of the Rings, and tried to make it real, then it would be a great film.

Sure the characters, mostly from New Genesis, wear colorful costumes. But they aren't really costumes. Its just the clothes and armor that everyone in that world wears. I think as long as they look more like clothing than costumes (without changing anything, just not using spandex I mean) and as long as there are no regular human things (like clothing) to compare it to,
Everything should seem realistic and normal. Making it the standard for clothing and culture in their world. Sort of like Lord of the Rings or Star Wars did.

Plus much of it is armor, like Barda's costume.

It sort of reminds me of something similar to Samurai armor. Or something like it.

Sometimes Orion's looks like fabric, but it also sometimes looks like a type of armor. Which I think would work in film.

Plus the lighting and the atmosphere that the other characters, culture, and backgrounds (and lighting) create will add to the illusion that this is a real world seperate from ours.

It is also something that Jack Kirby did all on his own, sort of his big project. It was created and written mostly and drawn by him. It would be nice to have something he worked so hard on made into a big epic quality trilogy like Star Wars or Lord of the Rings.
I think the thing that it has going for it that most superhero stories don't is that its like Flash Gordon, or Star Wars, or Lord of the Rings,
where is is all based in a world with no connections to our own besides characters that look human. Its not based in New York, or a real world type city, where there is only one superhero in a costume.
There are many of them and their costumes are their regular clothes and armor.

Its also an original idea for a studio to do, rather than just another superhero saves the city type story, this is about many heroes (not really super) in a epic war.