James Bond: 007 - Spectre - Part 10

[flickchick85]

Confession: I liked the QOS meeting scene over Spectre's. Maybe it being a prelude to that film's best scene (opera) had something to do with it. I think the seriousness of that scene works better, whereas the Spectre meeting scene is silly in Connery fashion, but treated seriously by the direction. It was tonal mess.

Well that much I definitely agree with. That opera scene is easily the highlight of QoS, imo.

 

[flickchick85]

I love both of those films, but they played up power in both. That is where the tenison was. How many times did they stomp on the gas or in the case of the bike, crank it? Maybe I just watched too much Top Gear. I know I am in the minority. My brother disliked it as well.

Though I do agree there was zero tension, and that is what comes with Superman Bond.

But in both editing and sound design, McQuarrie's chases make you feel the power in a visceral way that this just did not at all, imo.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well that much I definitely agree with. That opera scene is easily the highlight of QoS, imo.

Olga's mere presence was my highlight. And that was in a movie with Gemma Arterton. t:

 

[Gold Samurai]

Can someone explain why Mr. Hinx

Spoiler

Killed that Spectre member?

The spectre member offers to take up Marco Sciarra's spot

We get some statistics in german from some lady

Everything goes quiet and then Mr. Hinx gouges the man's eyes out

 

[flickchick85]

Olga's mere presence was my highlight. And that was in a movie with Gemma Arterton. t:

LOL, both those actresses bore me to tears Darth, so I'm just glad they were highlights for someone.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

The cat and mouse element was overwhelmed by Craig's utter disregard of the danger to himself and more about fiddling gleefully with the car's new toys, and his flirtation with Moneypenny.

I am not saying humor in chase scenes don't work, the Nick Fury chase scene in Winter Soldier had a great moment of humor (the air conditioning is still operational) but it never lost its tension. The Rome scene was poorly executed.

I think the score had something to do with it. This kind of comedic back and forth require silence or a lower blast of music, yet Newman's tunes were firing very loudly as if we were supposed to be scared. It intensified the lack of tension.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

But in both editing and sound design, McQuarrie's chases make you feel the power in a visceral way that this just did not at all, imo.

That is the thing, I don't want to feel the power in that way. These are finally tuned European Super Cars, not muscle cars. I Going 100 MPH should be a smooth ride for them.

Now if Bond still had the DBS instead of the DB10, I would agree. That car was meant to be a beast, with the V12 roaring. Never got that from the DB10.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

LOL, both those actresses bore me to tears Darth, so I'm just glad they were highlights for someone.

You are lucky I like you and that you adore my Keira. Otherwise I'd go Sawyer and scratch your eyes out.

 

[flickchick85]

That is the thing, I don't want to feel the power in that way. These are finally tuned European Super Cars, not muscle cars. I Going 100 MPH should be a smooth ride for them.

Now if Bond still had the DBS instead of the DB10, I would agree. That car was meant to be a beast, with the V12 roaring. Never got that from the DB10.

Well I'm not a car person. All I know is I want to feel tension or a rush or danger or something in a car chase, and due to the way this one was filmed/edited, all I felt during it was bored.

You are lucky I like you and that you adore my Keira. Otherwise I'd go Sawyer and scratch your eyes out.

Well thank goodness for Keira then.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The cat and mouse element was overwhelmed by Craig's utter disregard of the danger to himself and more about fiddling gleefully with the car's new toys, and his flirtation with Moneypenny.

I am not saying humor in chase scenes don't work, the Nick Fury chase scene in Winter Soldier had a great moment of humor (the air conditioning is still operational) but it never lost its tension. The Rome scene was poorly executed.

I think the score had something to do with it. This kind of comedic back and forth require silence or a lower blast of music, yet Newman's tunes were firing very loudly as if we were supposed to be scared. It intensified the lack of tension.

Again, I agree, it completely lacked tension. Though I didn't feel like that scene needed tension, because it very much was in the Moore/Brosnan style. Very much a comedy scene. Superman Bond, just having a bit of fun. Sue me, I liked the phone call. Especially what they were talking about.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

But in both editing and sound design, McQuarrie's chases make you feel the power in a visceral way that this just did not at all, imo.

Oh man, those point of view shots! I have never seen speed depicted that incredibly in a chase scene before.

 

[flickchick85]

Oh man, those point of view shots! I have never seen speed depicted that incredibly in a chase scene before.

They were incredible, right? Especially on IMAX.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well I'm not a car person. All I know is I want to feel tension or a rush or danger or something in a car chase, and due to the way this one was filmed/edited, all I felt during it was bored.

That is more then fair, and I am willing to admit defeat on this. My brother is a car and chase guy, and he didn't like it either. He agree with you and Ronin. He found it completely boring and for the same reasons. He even brought up Rogue Nation.

Well thank goodness for Keira then.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Oh man, those point of view shots! I have never seen speed depicted that incredibly in a chase scene before.

He captured what the Matrix Reloaded was trying to do and didn't quite accomplish.

 

[The Caped Knight]

My Top 10 Bond Films
1. Casino Royale
2. Skyfall
3. Goldfinger
4. Goldeneye
5. With Russia with Love
6.The Spy who Loved Me
7.Dr. No
8.Spectre
9.Licence to Kill
10.You only Live Twice
11.The Man with Golden Gun
12.Live and Let Die
13. Thunderball
14. For Your Eyes Only
15. Diamonds are Forever
16. The Living Daylights
17. Octopussy
18. Moonraker
19. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
20.Tomorrow Never Dies
21.The World is Not Enough
22.Quantum of Solace
23.Die Another Day
24.A View to a Kill

 

[Tacit Ronin]

What did you think of the score, Darth? I thought much of it was unfortunately resampled from Skyfall. I was enjoying the opening scene, and then all of a sudden the action cue from Skyfall's PTA starts, and I am like what the hell? The climax in London also plays the exact same score as the score played as Silva chased M and Kincaid in Skyfall.

 

[flickchick85]

That is more then fair, and I am willing to admit defeat on this. My brother is a car and chase guy, and he didn't like it either. He agree with you and Ronin. He found it completely boring and for the same reasons. He even brought up Rogue Nation.

Well I think Tacit may be onto something about the music though. It seems like you enjoyed it as a more comedic cat-and-mouse situation (ala Brosnan/Moore as you said), whereas I saw it as a chase that was trying to be tense but sprinkling elements of comic relief from the tension throughout. Which of course didn't work for me because I never felt the tension in the first place. BUT it's possible the music misled me into thinking it should be more intense than it actually was, when really it was originally conceived as a more straight-up Brosnan/Moore style comedic chase to begin with. If that makes any sense, lol.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Yea. Flickchick nails it. Those tongue in cheek chase scenes from the Moore era never played for tension. This one feels as if the direction of the action is one played way and the direction of the score is another. Just confused. Craig is bantering with Moneypenny but the score is blaring as if Rome is being taken apart by a bomb.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Have you read the reviews? These are individual critics, not an arbitrary number.

Personally, I thought it was all crazy talk up and through the chase. Thought the movie was pretty darn good up to that point. Then I understood every criticism, outside of the car chase.

I actually got Swann's situation. She just [BLACKOUT]lost her father[/BLACKOUT], and she was clinging onto the one thing she had. James made no sense to me. They tried to work the daughter of a killer angle a bit, but that was way underdone.

I haven't. I don't bother to, to be honest. I just don't agree with the cumulative rating at all and think it's too low and undeserving. I get the criticisms, but the flaws aren't bad to the extent to warrant such a rating.

I agree that was a bit. You know what I was expecting and what could have been cool? When

Spoiler

they reach Blofeld's base, and they ask Bond for his gun and he gives it to them, they never bother to check Swann for anything. It would have been cool if Bond gave Swann an extra gun to carry and she pulled it out when he gives her the signal and it ignites their escape.

One other thing: This could be just me and I saw it as subtext too and I'm giving it too much credit. But I see part of the reason why Bond

Spoiler

gave Mr. White his word was because technically, Mr. White did indirectly save Bond's life in CR when he killed Le Chiffre. In a way, I kind of wish Bond brought this up to her.

For me this is a top 10 Bond film. Not a top 5, but top 10 is actually saying a lot given there are 24 of them total.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What did you think of the score, Darth? I thought much of it was unfortunately resampled from Skyfall. I was enjoying the opening scene, and then all of a sudden the action cue from Skyfall's PTA starts, and I am like what the hell? The climax in London also plays the exact same score as the score played as Silva chased M and Kincaid in Skyfall.

It honestly barely registered to me. The only thing that stuck with me was the little que for when Batista showed up and I did like that. If they really sampled Skyfall, and I just don't. That just seems a bit ridiculous.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well I think Tacit may be onto something about the music though. It seems like you enjoyed it as a more comedic cat-and-mouse situation (ala Brosnan/Moore as you said), whereas I saw it as a chase that was trying to be tense but sprinkling elements of comic relief from the tension throughout. Which of course didn't work for me because I never felt the tension in the first place. BUT it's possible the music misled me into thinking it should be more intense than it actually was, when really it was originally conceived as a more straight-up Brosnan/Moore style comedic chase to begin with. If that makes any sense, lol.

This makes perfect sense, especially considering I can't remember the music. Had no effect on me at all.

 

[The Caped Knight]

RT's James Bond Movie Countdown list!
http://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/guide/james-bond-movies/
http://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/guide/james-bond-movies/2/

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Since now it's safe to talk about spoilers, let's talk film vs script. They are mostly the same, but the stuff in Spectre's base is changed around. Instead of the idiotic torture scene, they play a game of cards with Lea's life as stake. And the twist is revealed by Bond, not Blofeld. In the end Bond throws the watch at Blofeld in what is far more natural than the contrived corresponding scene in the film. And they make their escape. Hence why the torture scene had no effect. The original scene had no torture. But when they decided to change it, they didn't bother to think about how the torture might affect Bond.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I haven't. I don't bother to, to be honest. I just don't agree with the cumulative rating at all and think it's too low and undeserving. I get the criticisms, but the flaws aren't bad to the extent to warrant such a rating.

But, that isn't how RT works. Doctor, don't do this too me.

I agree that was a bit. You know what I was expecting and what could have been cool? When

Spoiler

they reach Blofeld's base, and they ask Bond for his gun and he gives it to them, they never bother to check Swann for anything. It would have been cool if Bond gave Swann an extra gun to carry and she pulled it out when he gives her the signal and it ignites their escape.

Oh, that would have been cool. I am still trying to figure out why [BLACKOUT]they didn't take his watch[/BLACKOUT].

One other thing: This could be just me and I saw it as subtext too and I'm giving it too much credit. But I see part of the reason why Bond

Spoiler

gave Mr. White his word was because technically, Mr. White did indirectly save Bond's life in CR when he killed Le Chiffre. In a way, I kind of wish Bond brought this up to her.

That is a fine way of looking at it. I personally just saw it as him being desperate to find Franz, but I like your view of it.

For me this is a top 10 Bond film. Not a top 5, but top 10 is actually saying a lot given there are 24 of them total.

I put it in my top 10 Bond films, but I also feel like Bond has a lot bad movies. It goes ahead of all the films from DAF through DAD, with the exception of GoldenEye, kind of by default. It is better then YOLT. Now the question is it better then Goldfinger, Dr. No, Thunderball and QoS in my mind. It doesn't touch my top five of CR, Skyfall, OHMSS, FRWL and GoldenEye.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Since now it's safe to talk about spoilers, let's talk film vs script. They are mostly the same, but the stuff in Spectre's base is changed around. Instead of the idiotic torture scene, they play a game of cards with Lea's life as stake. And the twist is revealed by Bond, not Blofeld. In the end Bond throws the watch at Blofeld in what is far more natural than the contrived corresponding scene in the film. And they make their escape. Hence why the torture scene had no effect. The original scene had no torture. But when they decided to change it, they didn't bother to think about how the torture might affect Bond.

Yeah, how Was Bond okay after that? Did Franz no realize how his machine worked? Because he was suppose to be permanently damaged after that second needle.

The film also really didn't need two climaxes.