The Dark Knight Jerry Robinson to be an advisor on TDK

[7Hells]

I'd love to see Joker move in on Batman unconscious to do his work with a razor on Batmans smile
Not sure what or who should stop him. But it would be a tense scene.

 

[Rynan]

I'd love to see Joker move in on Batman unconscious to do his work with a razor on Batmans smile
Not sure what or who should stop him. But it would be a tense scene.

He would stop himself. Batman's defeat must be public, humiliating and absolute. Just killing Batman while he's unconsious wouldn't vindicate that he was superior, that he was the victor, that he was better than Batman.

It's how his game is played.

And razor grin? Again? Gimme a break.

 

[spanish39]

True for the comcs, but this Batman fights so quick that if Joker is quicker it just wouldn't come out right, or I would dangerously ass-u-me anyway.

As long as Joker laughs uncontrolably once completly beaten and bloody while Batman holds him to his face grabbing him by his coat, I will be happy.

 

[The Fallen]

As stated in "The Man who Laughs", The Joker moves quicker and reacts faster than Batman does, to the point where he even caught Batman off-guard.

Not to mention The Joker is fearless, meaning he can keep a level head(or somewhat level head) in a combat scenario against a man in a bat costume. And without the fear, Batman's effectiveness is at least dropped 50%. He would have to depend solely on his training to stop him.

And another thing, just because he received ninja training, doesn't mean he is the uber mich. He can be hurt. He can be broken. He's not invicible. He can be taken out with a single bullet or a well placed hit. It's not that far out there that The Joker can take on Batman, especially considering that he is an unpredictable madman. He takes no concern of pain, which increases his endurance. Batman can wail on him and he'll just keep on coming, usually with one of his sinister tricks up his sleeve, like a knife, gun or crow bar.

Or maybe just his fists.

If Batman is a man, then he is failable and not so impervious to The Joker's attacks as you may believe.

Great post there. I'd love to see Batman and The Joker have a good 'ol fashion scrap. The thing is, Batman is still in his early years, as is The Joker by all account in TDK. This Batman has never faught anyone like The Joker, in Begins he faught grunts, ninjas and Ra's. The only 'freak' like character was Crane, and he didn't really fight, he set Batman alight after gassing him.

The Joker will be somthing NEW to Batman in TDK. He knows no fear, he's a nut job, and will most likely uses weapons in a fight with Bats.

I highly doubt we'll be a full on fight with Batman and The Joker anyways. You always have part three for that if you need it. Plus The Joker is Batman's greatest foil. Batman should never get a 100% victory over him, IMO, then need to leave some issuse unreolved between the two of them.

Oh, and remember the tenement complex that's said to feature the big action sequence in TDK? Methinks Batman and Joker will duke it out in there. It might be still under consturction... hmmmm... pipes, blanks, crowbars.... sounds good to me!

 

[7Hells]

Victims POV, my ass. Does the average victim SEE himself getting his ass kicked from the outside, a la a Near Death Experience?

When someone remembers an incident in their life it is always in third person. Not that I would assume this has anything to do with the way Nolan shot the action but it would make sense. I liked the way it was shot, it made a good contrast between him fighting someone with a skill matching his own like ra's versus his less formidable opponents.

Why the "consultants", exactly? Can WB, the Nolans, Goyer and company not get what they need from the comics themselves?

Nothing wrong with making use of people with more knowledge than yourself as reference when trying to create something so many people will pick apart

Just killing Batman while he's unconsious wouldn't vindicate that he was superior, that he was the victor, that he was better than Batman.

I didnt say anything about killing.

And razor grin? Again? Gimme a break.

Sorry, im a bit old school when it comes to this. That was one of the most sardonic aspects of the Joker for me. Mutilation of his victims, thats Joker all the way for me.

 

[Rynan]

I didnt say anything about killing.

It was implied. Either way, The Joker would stop himself. As I said before, it has to public, humilating and absolute, so scarring his mouth with a razor is something an insignificant little fink does. Not the great Joker.

Sorry, im a bit old school when it comes to this. That was one of the most sardonic aspects of the Joker for me. Mutilation of his victims, thats Joker all the way for me.

He never mutilated his victims. He poisoned them with a toxin that gave his victims grins in regor mortis. Sometimes they laughed to death, it depends on the version, but he never "Carved Smiles" into his victims.

And because you implied the "Carving Idea", The leviathan must once again rise to smite the world. Again.

BEHOLD! MY ANCIENT AND TERRIBLE PHOTOSHOP!!

 

[The Fallen]

Who here want's to see the Joker stab himself, like in Batman #1, only to still be alive? I rekon that would be awesome way to end the fight and a nod to comics fans everywhere...

 

[Thespiralgoeson]

Superman > Batman

No way. Superman is just too corny. He'll always have his place as an American icon, and as the first real superhero, but he's just too friggin corny. Batman's character is much more complex and much better thought through. I'm sorry, even in the universe of DC comics, I still have trouble believing a character that has cold-breath, X-ray eyes, and heat-vision because of the "yellow" sun rays. That might not have mattered in 1938, but everything about his character, from the cheesy, nonsensical superpowers to his poorly conceived origin just makes him VERY dated IMO. Nevermind that all he needs to do to conceal his identity is put on glasses. I'm sorry, but Batman is just a better character in every way shape and form. And don't even get me started on Batman's comics vs Superman's... Supes' rogue's gallery doesn't even remotely compare to Bats'. Of course, it's all subjective, and this is just my opinion. The truth is, in terms of status as fictional icons and truly enduring characters, they're really equals. I don't think you could really make a strong case for either being "better" than the other. I just prefer the world's greatest detective who kicks the **** out of bad guys with his fists and his brain to the alien that simply has too many superpowers.

But I digress. This thread isn't about Superman or Batman; it's about the Joker. Personally, I absolutely love the idea of the Joker being physically imposing, and not at all afraid to throw-down. Remember, isn't Joker supposed to be like 6'5 in the comics? I'd love to see Joker team up with Scarecrow at the beginning of the film and then just beat the living **** out of him like he did Knightfall. Of course, in a fair fight, the world-class martial artist would mop the floor with the Joker, but that doesn't mean Joker can't get in a few good solid hits on Bats with a crowbar, or the increasingly popular sledge hammer.

 

[Rynan]

Who here want's to see the Joker stab himself, like in Batman #1, only to still be alive? I rekon that would be awesome way to end the fight and a nod to comics fans everywhere...

That would be cool...

 

[The Fallen]

What's with the Sledgehammer? Who does the Joker think he is? Triple H? Peter Gabriel?

 

[7Hells]

He never mutilated his victims. He poisoned them with a toxin that gave his victims grins in regor mortis. Sometimes they laughed to death, it depends on the version, but he never "Carved Smiles" into his victims.

I never said anything about the Joker killing Batman or implied it and I never said anything about "carved Smiles". If you are going to quote me and then make jokes about it please make sure I actually said it

Mutilation doesnt have to involve blood but I doubt Nolan is going to be able to use much of the Jokers gasing victims to leave a smile very often considering the logistics of it.
A great alternative that would keep the essence of the Joker's nature intact would be the dahlia smile. Audiences' sensitivities to violence have been dulled over the years and they now expect to see blood from an insane murderer.

After seeing what Nolan did with Scarecrow I dont think this alternative is far fetched. Then again perhaps the technique Scarecrow used with poisoning his victims could be easily introduced again with the Joker.
Though it would be a bit blase as we have now seen it before.

 

[StorminNorman]

I love what Rynan said about the Joker being fearless because that is exactly what makes him a potentially dangerous fighter. Sure, Ninjas and hired Thugs have more training and muscles - but they still have a brain that kicks in in the name of self preservation. Joker does not share this, so he is unafraid of doing whatever the hell he thinks (in his wierd twisted, sick brilliant mind) could end with the defeat of the Bat-Man.

 

[The Fallen]

I love what Rynan said about the Joker being fearless because that is exactly what makes him a potentially dangerous fighter. Sure, Ninjas and hired Thugs have more training and muscles - but they still have a brain that kicks in in the name of self preservation. Joker does not share this, so he is unafraid of doing whatever the hell he thinks (in his wierd twisted, sick brilliant mind) could end with the defeat of the Bat-Man.

I though poped into my head when reading this. Joker kicks Batman in the junk. That's enough to bring any man down...

 

[Rynan]

I never said anything about the Joker killing Batman or implied it and I never said anything about "carved Smiles". If you are going to quote me and then make jokes about it please make sure I actually said it

Mutilation doesnt have to involve blood but I doubt Nolan is going to be able to use much of the Jokers gasing victims to leave a smile very often considering the logistics of it.
A great alternative that would keep the essence of the Joker's nature intact would be the dahlia smile. Audiences' sensitivities to violence have been dulled over the years and they now expect to see blood from an insane murderer.

But isn't the Black Dahla smile a "Carved smile" like with the knife carving a smile into flesh?

It doesn't matter, for I believe they will use injectable Joker Venom in his murders. In his first apperance, the Joker didn't have a fatal gas form of his poison, only it's concentrated form could kill. All the gas did was paralyze, as seen here.

So since he couldn't gas a place to get his victim, he had to be more ingenious with his methods to kill. It made for a much more thrilling story, wondering how The Joker was going to get his victim and questioning wether Batman can stop him in time.

 

[7Hells]

I though poped into my head when reading this. Joker kicks Batman in the junk. That's enough to bring any man down...

That would be a good moment. I can totally see Jokers smile after that.

But isn't the Black Dahla smile a "Carved smile" like with the knife carving a smile into flesh?

Carving not sure, cutting for sure though. What i mean, bascially, is an 'irish grin" or something, I forget what they are called. Wide Razor in the mouth, punch the jaw upwards, and its cuts both corners of your mouth wide open along with teeth and gums.
I'm not suggesting this to be Jokers method just trying to remember the origin of the look. Its basically just cutting the corners of the mouth outwards.

The word carved implies work, cutting can be two quick slashes a giggle and a little dance which I can easily see the Joker performing.

It doesn't matter, for I believe they will use injectable Joker Venom in his murders.

That would be perfect. Then again needles scare the crap out of me so my view of it is a bit biased.
Oh and I didnt mean the smile would kill them, but that after he killed them he would give them the smile. I think thats where I might have confused you.

 

[The Fallen]

Yeah the gas has been done, so let it be. I'd love to see the orgignal injectable Joker venom in TDK. People have a fear of needles and it can be exploited. I'd love it if The Joker was to creep up on a victim, whisper some sick joke into thier ear as he injects them... creepy no?

 

[7Hells]

oh gawd, Id spend half of Jokers scenes with my eyes covered...

 

[Katsuro]

So since he couldn't gas a place to get his victim, he had to be more ingenious with his methods to kill. It made for a much more thrilling story, wondering how The Joker was going to get his victim and questioning wether Batman can stop him in time.

That was one of the best things about the first Joker stories. You always wondered exactly how he'd get to the guy. His playing cards would be laced with poison, or there'd be a needle in the earpeice of a phone. I'd love to see him come up with some nifty tricks in the movie. So much better than just gassing them.

 

[Anita18]

That was one of the best things about the first Joker stories. You always wondered exactly how he'd get to the guy. His playing cards would be laced with poison, or there'd be a needle in the earpeice of a phone. I'd love to see him come up with some nifty tricks in the movie. So much better than just gassing them.

I agree. It's time to spice up the intensity and suspense a little - if you're expecting Joker gas all the time, it would get pretty boring, and fast.

..and I hope he won't be mutilating his victims, at least not on screen. Remember that this movie needs to stay PG-13, LOL, at least for my sake....

(Yes, I'm squicky when it comes to knives and bodies.)

 

[Cinemaman]

Well, I think Joker should use something like knife or anything another as the weapoin against Batman, and only then start real fighting.

Joker is unpredictable and he can parry some blows to Batman, but Batman should be more powerful than he, because Batman is traned as Ras prof ninja.

But, Joker is also faster than Batman, what gives him the advantage of beating Batman.

 

[Cinemaman]

I love what Rynan said about the Joker being fearless because that is exactly what makes him a potentially dangerous fighter. Sure, Ninjas and hired Thugs have more training and muscles - but they still have a brain that kicks in in the name of self preservation. Joker does not share this, so he is unafraid of doing whatever the hell he thinks (in his wierd twisted, sick brilliant mind) could end with the defeat of the Bat-Man.

Yeah, I am also agreed with this.

 

[Rynan]

I bet in their first encounter it's going to be really quick and the out come will be The Joker knocking Batman's lights out.

It would be a "Holy Crap" moment for anyone in the audience who where expecting a "Nicholson" type Joker.

 

[Cinemaman]

^^^

That would work well.

First time we will see mad, dark, scary, fearless and unpredictable Joker, who can shoot anyone, who annoys him.

 

[superkong 500]

I bet in their first encounter it's going to be really quick and the out come will be The Joker knocking Batman's lights out.

It would be a "Holy Crap" moment for anyone in the audience who where expecting a "Nicholson" type Joker.

That would work but I was thinking that perhaps in their first encounter the joker would shot him and when it doesn't work then he would knock batman out much like you said. However in their second fight if there is one in the movie(considering there will be part 3 for that) bats shouldnt come on top right away like it happened with scarecrow, the joker should be a challenge each time batman fights him, their second fight batman would be ready for joker's known tricks and the joker would come out with new ones(maybe the acid flower melting part of batman's suit) then joker beats the crap out of the bat with the crowbar or the SH or whatever cool hand weapon he comes, or maybe even his fists.

Joker should have the upper hand each time they fight until batman goes berserk that is ala hush. I would love to see batman confused thinking how was it possible that the joker could beat him, with him having so much martial arts training and joker just being a loony. He would be like he's so fast and fearless. Batman would have to push his physical limits. Demonstrating that joker its more than it appears.

 

[Cinemaman]

^^^

Not bad, but I think 2nd time Batman should win the fight with very hard way, bcause he will catch Joker and send him to Arkham for the trial.

Besides, I doubt we will see more than one fight between Joker and Batman, because there is 2Face.