Justice League JL Runtime Thread. Yay? Or Nay?

[kguillou]

People are really underestimating how straightforward this story is gonna be. Bad guy shows up and starts stealing Mother Boxes. Batman and Wonder Woman try to recruit the metahumans that we learned about in BvS. Good guys join forces to defeat the bad guy. Along the way, Superman comes back to life and joins the fight.

It's REALLY that simple, folks. Steppenwolf is not a particularly deep or compelling villain. He's Darkseid's muscle. As long as he's threatening, it'll be fine. But don't expect some rich backstory for him. Same goes for the new kids on the team. This movie will function as an INTRODUCTION to them. It's NOT a character study for Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg. They are simply introduced as three unlikely heroes (for three different reasons), and then they have to put that aside to save the day.

Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman have all already had their introductory films, so they don't need a ton of development either.

From what we know about the plot (for those of us who read the spoilers), you can EASILY fit that into a 2 hour film. Just because The Avengers had an extra 15-20 minutes of fat lined into their movie doesn't mean Justice League needs to do that.

I hear what your saying but I dont fully agree. I agree that Steppenwolf just needs to be an evil badass and doesnt need a ton of development but we need to care about Flash, Cyborg and Aquaman, so we need an adequate amount of screentime that shows us who these characters are and what motivates them. Superman also needs a good deal of character development because he is coming back from the dead, presumably as a new person with a new outlook on life. He cant just come back in act 3 smiling with his hands on his hips. Clark needs a character arc in this movie to show how his own death and ressurection has changed him as a person.

Is it possible to do in 1hr 50? Yes, its possible but you run the risk of trimming valuable character moments that make the audience like and care about this team if the movie's just gonna swiftly move through each beat.

 

[MbJ]

The sheer amount of assumptions in this pathetic twitter thread and use of the phrase "we know" is so funny https://***********/FoldableHuman/status/921116460755197952

Depends on if it was shot as a longer movie and edited down into a shorter one or if that was always the intention. If it's the former then he's correct in that this was likely another Suicide Squad situation. But it's entirely possible a shorter script was always the plan.

 

[ZackBop]

I hear what your saying but I dont fully agree. I agree that Steppenwolf just needs to be an evil badass and doesnt need a ton of development but we need to care about Flash, Cyborg and Aquaman, so we need an adequate amount of screentime that shows us who these characters are and what motivates them. Superman also needs a good deal of character development because he is coming back from the dead, presumably as a new person with a new putlook on life. He cant just come back in act 3 smiling with his hands on his hips. Clark needs a character arc in this movie.

Is it possible to do in 1hr 50? Yes, its possible but you run the risk of trimming valuable character moments that make the audience like this team if the movie's just gonna swiftly move through each beat.

Here is the disconnect: It seems like a lot of people (not sure if you'd be included in this or not) are thinking that we need the development for the new kids BEFORE they join the team. But we don't. We can get the necessary backstory on them as Bruce and Diana go through their files, and then that'll get followed up on when they actually go out to recruit them (where we get even more details about who they are). But that doesn't mean they're going to be "fully fleshed out." Rather, we'll get enough information to make us care, but not so much that we'll feel like a solo movie for them isn't necessary. Plus, they'll be fleshed out within the context of them already being on the team. So it's not like each of them needs mini "solo film" within JL itself before we can accept them as true members of the team. They'll just be developed AS members of the team.

I know people hate when others bring up this analogy, but it works: Guardians of the Galaxy. Those characters were developed enough in 2 hours for the audience to care about each of them. But JL already has an advantage over that in that Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman have already had their introductory films.

 

[STARMAN]

The way I see it is that you'll hopefully connect with them as they interact with each other. You'll bond with them as you see them together rather than each of the new characters having tons of backstory solo scenes.

 

[markjoedelonge]

The way I see it is that you'll hopefully connect with them as they interact with each other. You'll bond with them as you see them together rather than each of the new characters having tons of backstory solo scenes.

Yup!

 

[MbJ]

Here is the disconnect: It seems like a lot of people (not sure if you'd be included in this or not) are thinking that we need the development for the new kids BEFORE they join the team. But we don't. We can get the necessary backstory on them as Bruce and Diana go through their files, and then that'll get followed up on when they actually go out to recruit them (where we get even more details about who they are). But that doesn't mean they're going to be "fully fleshed out." Rather, we'll get enough information to make us care, but not so much that we'll feel like a solo movie for them isn't necessary. Plus, they'll be fleshed out within the context of them already being on the team. So it's not like each of them needs mini "solo film" within JL itself before we can accept them as true members of the team. They'll just be developed AS members of the team.

I know people hate when others bring up this analogy, but it works: Guardians of the Galaxy. Those characters were developed enough in 2 hours for the audience to care about each of them. But JL already has an advantage over that in that Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman have already had their introductory films.

And honestly, plenty of non-superhero films have managed to go in with multiple characters and still made people care about them. The notion that you can't do a movie with six characters without introducing each of them in their own film first is kind of silly. The original Magnificent Seven is often hailed as one of the all time great Westerns, and it's only an hour and 46 minutes long (and hilariously, at the time some critics said this was TOO long).

 

[ZackBop]

The way I see it is that you'll hopefully connect with them as they interact with each other. You'll bond with them as you see them together rather than each of the new characters having tons of backstory solo scenes.

This.

 

[Steyin]

I've seen plenty of films where the runtime was enough at 2 hours, and where it definitely needed to be longer (the most recent of which I can remember saying that about was Thor TDW).

Got to wait and see how this turns out, but I will say that I like my movies longer as long as the content isn't boring.

 

[BH/HHH]

The way I see it is that you'll hopefully connect with them as they interact with each other. You'll bond with them as you see them together rather than each of the new characters having tons of backstory solo scenes.

Honestly sounds like some fans were expecting war and peace.

 

[The Guard]

And honestly, plenty of non-superhero films have managed to go in with multiple characters and still made people care about them. The notion that you can't do a movie with six characters without introducing each of them in their own film first is kind of silly. The original Magnificent Seven is often hailed as one of the all time great Westerns, and it's only an hour and 46 minutes long (and hilariously, at the time some critics said this was TOO long).

This.

Ensemble films have been around for a long time. And it's not like The Flash, Cyborg and Aquaman are particularly difficult characters to explain, if you're not delving into their entire mythology, which JL likely won't. Children's cartoons have pulled it off nicely for years in a matter of minutes, and comics do it in a few pages.

 

[Jumpman]

121 minutes is official via Fandango Managing Editor.

 

[kguillou]

I guess we all just naturally assumed that this being a movie with all big these heroes coming together coupled with being part 3 of a trilogy that there would be a beefy runtime, is all. I'm sure thats what most people assumed/expected.

I could guarantee you that if Infinity War was announced to be an 1hr 50 mins, there'd be the same amount of confusion and anxiety from MCU fans.

 

[mclay18]

I guess we all just naturally assumed that this being a movie with all big these heroes coming together coupled with being part 3 of a trilogy that there would be a beefy runtime, is all. I'm sure thats what most people assumed/expected.

I could guarantee you that if Infinity War was announced to be an 1hr 50 mins, there'd be the same amount of confusion and anxiety from MCU fans.

I could see Infinity War being that length, as virtually all of the characters have been set up in previous films.

 

[Loki882]

This really makes me nervous honestly. You have a bunch of characters who haven't really even been properly introduced yet, villains that need set up, Superman needs to come back, etc. And you're going to try and do that in only two hours?

Avengers was like 2 hrs 20 minutes, so was Wonder Woman. The Dark Knight was over two and a half hours, etc. And none of them had as many characters or were as big and "epic" a scale as this movie seems to be?

Makes little sense imo.

And as for the Marvel thing, plenty of people were concerned when Thor: Ragnarok was rumored to potentially be only 100 minutes long. For much the same reasons as here in fact (thankfully it seems like it's longer than that from what I've heard).

 

[BH/HHH]

I don’t think the credits will last 11 mins even with a mid/post credits scene if there is one.

 

[Sascha1987]

https://***********/EmpireCinemas/status/922513823587762177

 

[MbJ]

This really makes me nervous honestly. You have a bunch of characters who haven't really even been properly introduced yet,

As others have said though, films introduce ensemble casts successfully all the time. And honestly, introductions don't need to be that huge.

Black Panther in Civil War is the perfect example given that DC is going a similar route with introducing characters in Justice League before spinning them off into their own films. He shows up. Gets an introduction and has a big role in the plot. But they don't go overboard. We learn what we need to about who he is, what his gimmick is, where he comes from and what his personality is like. We meet a single member of his supporting cast and get his motivation. That's all that's required. His villains, the rest of his cast and the heavy lifting for his world building are all saved for his spin-off movie.

There's nothing about Aquaman, Flash or Cyborg that can't be handled in roughly the same manner. Give us enough to know who these are, why we care and why we should be excited about their solo films. Anything else can be saved for said solos.

 

[Loki882]

Again people bringing up movies like The Magnificent Seven are forgetting that those are very different types of films with very different contexts.

And as for "well we can introduce them via Diana and Bruce going through their files" that was one of the most mocked and derided parts of BVS, and rightly so imo. And they really to try and do that kind of laziness again do they?

 

[DaJanksta]

1 hour 59 minutes including credits. Interdasting.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Breh, JL is only introducing three new major characters plus a villain that doesn't require much explanation beyond "evil alien." Runtime ain't that serious.

 

[kguillou]

I think the most direct comparison that we're all worried about is Suicide Squad. The way that movie just sped through all of the characters critically damaged that movie and I dont want the same to happen here.

 

[Da-Scribe]

I think the most direct comparison that we're all worried about is Suicide Squad. The way that movie just sped through all of the characters critically damaged that movie and I dont want the same to happen here.

The concept behind how they handled that was perfectly reasonable. Brief scenes for each character to give you the gist of who they are. The issue was the editing and pacing. They basically just lumped all these disparate scenes together into one jumbled mess of scene.

I look at Ocean's Eleven as a great example of how to do this properly. They organically weaved the scenes into the narrative and gave each character an actual reason for being there. Some folks talk about needing an explosives expert so they can blow some **** up, so then they find their guy.

With JL, the task is logic is way simpler. "There's an alien invasion and these are the only metahumans we know. We need to find them." We don't need to know all of their origins. We just need to know who and where they are by the time the of the events of the film.

 

[FunkMiller]

Who’d have thought Thor Ragnarok would be quite a bit longer than Justice League, eh? No-one, that’s who! Let’s hope it gets as good a reception.

 

[MbJ]

Again people bringing up movies like The Magnificent Seven are forgetting that those are very different types of films with very different contexts.

Other than the fact that this is a shared universe where we know these characters will be getting their own solo movies anyway, not particularly. In fact this being a shared universe where the characters can be fleshed out in future movies kind of works against your point.

And they really to try and do that kind of laziness again do they?

Okay, no offense, but that's kind of a strawman. There's more options than "overlong introductions that only work in a 3 hour movie" and "Watch stats on a computer."

The more relevant concern is the one that Folding Ideas raised, which is that IF this is a film that was filmed and written to be much longer and was subsequently edited down (ala Suicide Squad), then there's a high chance for plot holes and pacing issues. But if it was always intended to be a shorter movie, there's far less issue.

 

[brandeezy89]

Can people stop acting like JL has a different set of rules from other ensemble films?

"GOTG scenario doesn't work because no one knew who they were"

"X-Men scenario doesn't work because they're already a team"

"Mag. 7 scenario doesn't work because of the context"

Mbj summed it up perfectly. Give us a reasonable motivation for each character and touch on a little backstory. We don't need to see Barry's mother dying, Black Manta fighting Arthur, Darkseid doing whatever on Apokolips etc. Just whatever that's related to the plot.