BvS New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!)

[Aejej]

Saw on Batman-News:

"What bothers me isn't the negative reviews, but how they amplified the negatives within the film. BvS is flawed, but it's not crap, or horrible. Most reviews have been vindictive in nature, rather than playing on both the positive and negatives, it was just another, "which critic can top the other with nasty reviews." I know some people will disagree with me, and state how they brought up valid points, but I disagree. There is valid points, but they're not that big, and most of the reviews nitpick the hell out of it. This movie didn't deserve the negative beating it receive."

On that note, here is a great new article posted a couple days ago.

http://kotaku.com/batman-v-superman-isnt-like-other-superhero-films-and-1768676827

These representations of these characters might not be the ones that fans want, but they are certainly ones that have been expressed in comics like The Dark Knight Returns, All-Star Batman and Robin, Superman: Peace on Earth, Red Son, and many other works like them. In the vast plurality of DC Comics there are many dimensions to these characters, and the interpretation put forward by Snyder in Batman v Superman is a heavy mix of these flavors with a cynical shot of Watchmen as a chaser. In Snyder’s version, negative interpretations of these heroes are not just possible worlds— they are likely ones.

The opening of BvS painstakingly shows the impact of superhero violence with very particular 9/11-style image of Bruce Wayne running into the dust produced by a collapsed building, but the film also glorifies the same kinds of fights that it critiqued in its opening. The entire last twenty minutes of the film are the same kind of rampant, horrifying action that comprised the ending of Man of Steel, and a few scenes suggest a similar death toll the hands of the character Doomsday during its first energy-expending salvo. Many people have critiqued these final scenes for seemingly abandoning the opening lessons of the film, but I feel it is pretty clear that Snyder is pulling the old Watchmen critique here: if you want the spectacle, you have to deal with the consequences. You don’t get your superheroes without their bad sides.

 

[Astyanax]

This is actually my first post on the forum. I've lurked sporadically over the past few years (probably since the last year smallville was on, 2011 I think).

I loved this movie. I thought it was an 8/10. I've seen it twice now, both times in IMAX 2D. The first was opening weekend Saturday. I had carefully avoided spoilers and reviews. The theater was packed, so I wasn't able to get good seats, but I was sucked in from beginning to end. I took my wife who knows nothing about comics (as in, she didn't even know the difference between Marvel and DC), and she loved it. I saw her wiping away tears during some of the more emotional scenes.

The funny thing is, I have noticed that a lot of people on here liked it more on subsequent viewings. I had kind of the opposite experience. After I saw it, I read some of the negative things people were saying about pacing, character motivations, how the "Martha" scene was stupid...so I went in the second time unfortunately with those things in the back of my mind. Going in with that mindset actually took me out of the movie. Instead of just experiencing the movie, I found myself analyzing it, looking for the problems I had read about.

I still don't agree with the criticisms, but now I believe that some people's perceptions might have been colored by all the negativity surrounding the movie. My wife and I went in blind (I'm a big DC fan, and she knows nothing about comics), and we loved it. My kid brother and my wife's cousin spend a lot of time on the internet, so they got all the negative buzz, and they thought the movie was "stupid". I hope I'm not breaking the rules with this paragraph. I just wanted to say that it makes me sad to think that some people may have had their enjoyment of this movie spoiled because what happened to me on my second viewing is how they saw the movie for the first time.

I will say that the movie did feel rushed, but I mean that in a good way-- I loved the movie so much, I wish I could have spent more time with the characters. I also didn't like that scene with the Flash (I didn't even realize it was the Flash). I hated his look, especially with that ratty mustache. I also thought the Doomsday fight was a bit much with all the explosions- I could barely see what was going on.

I loved everything else. The movie is amazing in that it tries to do so much and succeeds.

 

[WoodyROM]

On that note, here is a great new article posted a couple days ago.

http://kotaku.com/batman-v-superman-isnt-like-other-superhero-films-and-1768676827

Good read, thanks for sharing!

 

[Aejej]

^You bet!

 

[Ovech-king]

I need a wallpaper of the heat vision war between Doomsday and Superman when the Bluray comes out!

YES YES AND YES, that shoot was epic as *****!!!!!

By the way, haven't seen anyone talk about how great was that return to the batcave with the batmobile jumping from the woods into the river.

Batman be like: ''meh.. been doing it for like 15 years, nothing spectacular there boy''

 

[Sleiek]

Goddamnit I don't even remember that. I can't wait for my second viewing this Wednesday.

 

[ZIPBAGS]

I saw the movie twice. I see people gleefully post that the movie is a bomb since it dropped nearly 70% from opening weekend. I am a little confused by people saying it's tanking. Yes it did drop. But, it still did 50 million the 2nd weekend. Which normally would be a great opening weekend take. I assumed it would be a big drop since it did a huge number opening weekend.

 

[Legendver2]

YES YES AND YES, that shoot was epic as *****!!!!!

By the way, haven't seen anyone talk about how great was that return to the batcave with the batmobile jumping from the woods into the river.

Batman be like: ''meh.. been doing it for like 15 years, nothing spectacular there boy''

That was straight out of the first Arkham Knight CGI trailer!

I saw the movie twice. I see people gleefully post that the movie is a bomb since it dropped nearly 70% from opening weekend. I am a little confused by people saying it's tanking. Yes it did drop. But, it still did 50 million the 2nd weekend. Which normally would be a great opening weekend take. I assumed it would be a big drop since it did a huge number opening weekend.

Successful or not, I'm sure it could've made a lot more money if it scored higher from critics

Regardless, this is probably one of the more epic Superhero movies I've seen. That Doomsday fight was just fantastic.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I don't know if this was already posted, but here's another insightful perspective on the film, courtesy of David Shreve.
It's a bit long but well worth the read.

 

[Legendver2]

I think like Watchmen, BvS can, imo, be considered ahead of its time. I've been going around the board to read criticisms (without the unnecessary vitriol) and praise, and also spoke to several friends and associates about the film. I've noticed that many don't see or *get* all the themes we talk about in here, until it was pointed out, then a light bulb lights up. I guess the incredibly negative reviews of the film resulted in Snyder trying to pretty much combine two mediums of film together, but the mediums are at such extreme ends, that maybe he failed at doing that.

Most people who watch these types of character study and deconstruction films with all these themes we talked about, probably expects something akin to an indie, or a lowkey personal drama, without all the bells and whistles of a summer blockbuster. Once you add all the CGI and blockbuster elements, the superhero stuff more or less, the message gets lost in the distraction of the light show. So they get turned off.

At the same time, those who went in expecting a crowd pleasing summer blockbuster light show ended up with a movie that was a lot more serious than they expected, and with that mentality, they didn't go in looking for any hidden messages, meaning, themes, etc. So they got turned off too.

I mean it took many of us multiple viewings to catch the gist of the grander message and theme of the movie, so for the layman, once neither extremes of expectations were met (either the blockbuster spectacle side, nor the narrative driven dramatic side), that was pretty much gameover for most viewers. Of course you also got those that totally enjoyed the spectacle and loved it, then you got us talking about the themes of the movie to death.

I think a good example of successfully meshing the two was TDK, but the spectacle side of that film did not go as extreme as Snyder, so there was much more focus on the thematic and drama and narrative. It was, as most fans would say, basically a crime drama that happens to feature Batman.

Of course, this is all my opinion.

 

[OutOfBoose]

On that note, here is a great new article posted a couple days ago.

http://kotaku.com/batman-v-superman-isnt-like-other-superhero-films-and-1768676827

From the same article:
"Man of Steel saw Superman lasering through buildings with his eye beams, slamming General Zod and a lot of space debris into Metropolis, and generally doing things with an immense number of casualties that weren’t typical of Superman’s previous incarnations."

I begin to understand Superman. BvS is so on point about our world, it's creepy.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I don't know if this was already posted, but here's another insightful perspective on the film, courtesy of David Shreve.
It's a bit long but well worth the read.

Now that's an actual and wonderful read. Thanks for the link!

YES YES AND YES, that shoot was epic as *****!!!!!

By the way, haven't seen anyone talk about how great was that return to the batcave with the batmobile jumping from the woods into the river.

Batman be like: ''meh.. been doing it for like 15 years, nothing spectacular there boy''

We talked about that, but the thread was closed.

 

[nautolis]

This movie has the all time best fight scenes in my opinion. They were brutal, powerful and just plain fun and exciting, cant get enough of those scenes.

 

[morningmimosa]

I just wanted to tell y'all how much I love the scene with Bruce and Alfred in Wayne Manor right before he's off to fight Supes. "... they were hunters." Dat music. Dat atmosphere. Goosebumps.

 

[Corko]

I think like Watchmen, BvS can, imo, be considered ahead of its time. I've been going around the board to read criticisms (without the unnecessary vitriol) and praise, and also spoke to several friends and associates about the film. I've noticed that many don't see or *get* all the themes we talk about in here, until it was pointed out, then a light bulb lights up. I guess the incredibly negative reviews of the film resulted in Snyder trying to pretty much combine two mediums of film together, but the mediums are at such extreme ends, that maybe he failed at doing that.

Most people who watch these types of character study and deconstruction films with all these themes we talked about, probably expects something akin to an indie, or a lowkey personal drama, without all the bells and whistles of a summer blockbuster. Once you add all the CGI and blockbuster elements, the superhero stuff more or less, the message gets lost in the distraction of the light show. So they get turned off.

At the same time, those who went in expecting a crowd pleasing summer blockbuster light show ended up with a movie that was a lot more serious than they expected, and with that mentality, they didn't go in looking for any hidden messages, meaning, themes, etc. So they got turned off too.

I mean it took many of us multiple viewings to catch the gist of the grander message and theme of the movie, so for the layman, once neither extremes of expectations were met (either the blockbuster spectacle side, nor the narrative driven dramatic side), that was pretty much gameover for most viewers. Of course you also got those that totally enjoyed the spectacle and loved it, then you got us talking about the themes of the movie to death.

I think a good example of successfully meshing the two was TDK, but the spectacle side of that film did not go as extreme as Snyder, so there was much more focus on the thematic and drama and narrative. It was, as most fans would say, basically a crime drama that happens to feature Batman.

Of course, this is all my opinion.

I agree. My brother who actually liked it (very surprising as he loves the TDKT) thought that he felt like the whole movie was building to something which he felt wasn't ever delivered. I get what hes saying but I think this movie isn't about the big grand finale, its instead trying to make you think and I agree people weren't expecting that at all. I think the next films will have it easier as they can just sort of launch straight into it. BvS while awesome did I think suffer a bit under its amount of setting up.

 

[Corko]

I just wanted to tell y'all how much I love the scene with Bruce and Alfred in Wayne Manor right before he's off to fight Supes. "... they were hunters." Dat music. Dat atmosphere. Goosebumps.

Dat music....... Agreed. Loved the way he walks out at the end. Plus I like the fact that he was just chilling in his burned up house brooding and that Alfred seemed to know exactly where to find him.

 

[AnneFan]

I just wanted to tell y'all how much I love the scene with Bruce and Alfred in Wayne Manor right before he's off to fight Supes. "... they were hunters." Dat music. Dat atmosphere. Goosebumps.

Me and my friends had big grins after that scene. Quintessential Bruce Wayne.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

Now that's an actual and wonderful read. Thanks for the link!

Indeed. NP.

 

[Micromind]

This movie may have under-performed but it's worth pointing out that it may end up earning 800 mil to 850 mil range worldwide.

Which is not bad given the circumstances (RT at 28 %, and lack of fun being the major complaint, which affected some repeat viewings.)

The worldwide tally is $681.3M which sees BvS surpass the global lifetimes of Man Of Steel, Thor 2, Iron Man 1 & 2, Ant-Man and Captain America, among other superhero titles.

Earlier in the week, I was hearing predictions of anywhere from $550M-$800M as a final international tally for BvS. That big gap is beginning to close with folks now hovering in the $600M-$675M range. The reviews that didn’t hurt Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent last weekend will have made an impact in the sophomore session; and the long holiday in a lot of markets last frame was also a big boost.

http://deadline.com/2016/04/batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice-zootopia-big-fat-greek-wedding-weekend-results-international-box-office-1201731145/

BvS doing reasonably well in Japan.

Assassination Classroom: Graduation, Doraemon and Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice held their respective No. 1, 2 and 3 positions at Japan's weekend box office.

Batman v. Superman raised its cume to $9.8 million, taking it past the local gross for 2013's Man of Steel, after collecting another ¥223 million ($2 million) on Saturday and Sunday

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/japan-box-office-batman-v-880351

Though the movie is not doing well in US in it's second week.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Final BO will something like: domestic - around 300, and foreign - anywhere between 500 and 600. Good numbers, but like you predicted - it won't reach 1 bil. As for under-performed or not - it's WB to decide. As I remember, they expected lesser grosses.

Given the nature of the film, I'm surprised it grossed this much.

 

[Charlie The Red]

To add to the positivity theme: we no longer have to search for hope, as it is completely lost.

 

[LamboMan]

A quick run down of the little touches that I really like about the movie:

The use of the gravity beam sound when ever Bruce starts and ends a "knightmare".

Following Chris Reeve's lead on changing the side that Clark's hair is parted on when in his different guises.

The mirroring in imagery between Zod killing Jor-el and Doomsday killing Kal-el. (Spike on right on arm through chest)

The smile on Superman's face when he takes the girl from the fire to her family during the Day of the dead scene and how is expression grows serious when he is surrounded by "worshippers."

Overall, loved the movie, and only have one real concern, Clark's funeral being open casket. Don't know how you bring Clark back in that scenario.

(I know, I posted some of these individually throughout the thread, I just wanted to put them all in the same place.)

OMG. I never noticed that!! That is so mind blowing!! Zod kills Jor then becomes Doomsday after death to kill Supes in the same way? Brilliant!

Thanks for pointing this out!

It's funny I was always been afraid to see the death of Superman told on the big screen but I really loved how they did it. Loved how right before Superman takes off to deliver the final blow you can see he has fully accepted who he is and why he is there, loved the exchange with Lois. The dirt floating at the very end put a huge smile on my face!

Me too, I didn't want them to do it so early but after watching the movie twice it may be the smartest move they made! Most emotional point of the movie!

I think like Watchmen, BvS can, imo, be considered ahead of its time.

And I'm sure BVS will be hailed as one of the best comic book movies and have a cult following in a few years' time!

From the same article:
"Man of Steel saw Superman lasering through buildings with his eye beams, slamming General Zod and a lot of space debris into Metropolis, and generally doing things with an immense number of casualties that weren’t typical of Superman’s previous incarnations."

I begin to understand Superman. BvS is so on point about our world, it's creepy.

Wait what? After watching 2 movies that clearly show Zod doing the lasering through buildings, people still think that Supes was the one??? XD

 

[LamboMan]

To add to the positivity theme: we no longer have to search for hope, as it is completely lost.

How is that a positive thing?

 

[C. Lee]

How is that a positive thing?

I'm POSITIVE it got him banned.

 

[The_Raganork]

I'm POSITIVE it got him banned.

Did he have any prior infractions? Or was this a knee jerk reaction?



Additionally, none of you find it particularly strange that there's an entire thread dedicated to talking nice about a movie that had an 82% drop off in the second week.


It's almost as if you've dedicated yourselves to denying the truth.


Is it that you own WB stock or you can't accept reality?


I am interested to see more WW though. Framework seems to be there and WWI is an under utilized time period