JLA vs avengers

[torkibe]

I'm kinda torn on the issue torkibe and the other guy were talkin about as far as the Hulk Vs. Sentry, yeah Hulk did get beat by both Void and Sentry. I (even though aomeone said they don't) call them both victories for each character, and people call me a Hulk fanboy? SHHEESHH!

I hope you're not insinuating I'm a Hulk fanboy... Go back and read some of my earlier posts in the Hulk forum and you'll see the Hulk fanboys accuse me of being a Hulk hater. I just don't consider the Hulk turning into an infant when the Sentry is around a victory.

 

[Badfish40oz]

Hate to sound like such a Marvel fanboy but this "DC characters are more powerful/DC as a whole is more powerful" thing is complete crap! Who ever decided this? Thor is without question at the very LEAST on Superman's level.

The Avengers would have a definite shot in winning. The JLA could easily win too, but writing off The Avengers like so many have done is just silly.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but put The Scarlet Witch on Superman and he's out of the picture due to his weakness to magic. (Especially this "new" Wanda).

Put Thor on, oh take your pick, Green Lantern, Flash, any of the other hitters.

Conventional thinking would give Batman to Cap, but I'd give Batman to Ironman so Batman is out of the picture earlier (can't give him to much time to think).

Cap would be backing everyone up and calling the shots.

Again I'm not saying The Avengers WOULD win. But they easily COULD. And this is the generic version of the Avengers that I think most people remember (the team that actually met the JLA in the crossover). Nevermind factoring in Sentry who, at power-levels established by certain writers, might be able to tackle Superman and Green Lantern at the same time.

 

[US Agent]

Not calling you a fanboy dude, chill man. I was saying that there are alot of fanboys on here.

 

[Docker2.0]

How about the galactic Avengers? They had Thor, IM, SS, Johny Storm.....and more. That team would have opened up a fresh can on the JLA.
By the way, they are featured in F4:The End.

 

[Vanguard07]

couple of things. A lot of the baddasses lose 90% of their power when they're functioning on a team.
Spiderman gets his arm broken by jigsaw. Thor is a punk with a hammer. etc.
If you looked at the respective histories of all the characters on it and assume that there havent been any inexplicable power/behavior changes then it actually would be an incredibly close fight.

Thor used to be able to move "as fast as the lightning that he commands" remember? and his travel speed was at galactic levels. He doesnt display those abilities when he's an avenger though.
Just an example.

Another thing is everyone seems to think that in this kind of scenario it would break down into a series of 1 on 1 fights but that doesnt make much sense. They are teams. They fight as teams. Teamwork and strategy would play a huge part here. In some cases at least.

That said I (being a die-hard marvel fan) think that with the exception of only a few rosters, the JLA would win decisively.

I think that because the JLA is on average, significantly faster and because MOST Avengers rosters dont include any notable magicians or telepaths.
Odds are because of J'ohhn (who's a JLA mainstay) the JLA would be able to coordinate MUCH better at very least. Depending on the severity of the conflict MM could just mindwipe the entire Avengers or keep them too mentally staggered to fight back.

On a team lacking MM or any other notable telepaths the Avengers would take it because to me Cap is a better leader and the Avengers work better as a team (barring new avengers) there are smaller groups of JLA members who work together as a well-oiled-machine (Bats and Supes) but overall it seems to me that they're less organized.

Hasnt anyone else ever noticed that when it comes to comic book fights, tactics and circumstance are at least 50 times more important than abilities?

 

[Brainiac 8]

The only problem with sicking Wanda on Supes, is that before she could get her hands raised to use her ability, he would have her unconcious. It would be stupid of Cap to have her try and take on Superman.


Heck half of the Avengers currently would be knocked out before the fight would barely start because of Supes speeding around clonking heads.

 

[BrianWilly]

Which was ultimately just a form of violent *********ion.

That sentence alone gives this thread all the validation it needs.

 

[The_Mystery]

Everyone brings up the "fact" that Supes would use his super-speed to take out everyone, but look at his history. He rarely starts off using his speed because he thinks he's invulnerable and that he could probably take whatever's thrown at him. That would be his mistake, especially against Thor. By the way, I'm not saying that any Joe Shmoe with magic can beat Supes, but when you have a God of Thunder with a magic hammer who also has the strength to pull islands and such, then I'm thinkin' Supes might be in trouble.

By the way, if you're talking about teams that are better with strategy and teamwork, that all boils down to leadership. The Avengers are led by Captain America, while the JLA has at least 3 or 4 folks trying to call the shots. Cap's team wins because not only is he the best, but his soliders are just as powerful than the JLA and would follow his commands better.

 

[Varient]

"a housecoat and bunny slippers."

"The ONLY way the Avengers win is if they don't fight their opposites AND get first licks."

(Smile) Apples and Oranges.

 

[The_Mystery]

Well, even if you take into account the JLA/Avengers series they did awhile back, when Thor swung Mjilnor at Supes and Supes caught it, I think most people would agree that an enchanted hammer, crackling with magic energy would have turn all the bones in Supes hand to dust.

 

[torkibe]

Well, even if you take into account the JLA/Avengers series they did awhile back, when Thor swung Mjilnor at Supes and Supes caught it, I think most people would agree that an enchanted hammer, crackling with magic energy would have turn all the bones in Supes hand to dust.

I don't think so. He's vulnerable to magic, true, but no moresoe than anyone else. He's still Superman. It would probably hurt more than a non-magical weapon, but it doesn't negate his super strength. Not to mention, who could there be more worthy to wield Mjilnor than Superman?

 

[Varient]

Well, even if you take into account the JLA/Avengers series they did awhile back, when Thor swung Mjilnor at Supes and Supes caught it, I think most people would agree that an enchanted hammer, crackling with magic energy would have turn all the bones in Supes hand to dust.

Only IF THE HAMMER HAD A HISTORY OF DISINTERGRATING STUFF ON CONTACT,....which BTW it doesn't.

STILL no heat.

Understand that there are situations where Thor will win,.... just not in a face to face confrontation where they attack each other or Supes gets first licks.

People want to treat "Magic" as "Kryptonite".


That's not the way it works,... otherwise Myxlplks would've killed Supes by accident Years ago.

 

[The_Mystery]

If Doubledown's magic cards can cut Superman and make him bleed, then a magic war hammer driven swung with superhuman strength would inflict massive damage on him.

 

[gildea]

there are two schools of thought on the hammer (roughly)
john byrne says it would be akin to a body builder hitting another body builder with a sledgehammer (ie pretty much lethal)
Kurt busiek argues superman only has no defense against magic other than his natural ones and because mjolnir isn't charmed to destroy what it hits (relying on thors natural strength) supermans invurnerability will protect him from most of it.

 

[The_Mystery]

there are two schools of thought on the hammer (roughly)
john byrne says it would be akin to a body builder hitting another body builder with a sledgehammer (ie pretty much lethal)
Kurt busiek argues superman only has no defense against magic other than his natural ones and because mjolnir isn't charmed to destroy what it hits (relying on thors natural strength) supermans invurnerability will protect him from most of it.

Kurt's explaination doesn't explain how magic cards can pierce Superman's skin and make him bleed. If Superman really had NO DEFENSE then that includes his invulnerability. It's mostly BS. John Byrne got it right the first time.

 

[Kitsune]

I don't think so. He's vulnerable to magic, true, but no moresoe than anyone else. He's still Superman. It would probably hurt more than a non-magical weapon, but it doesn't negate his super strength. Not to mention, who could there be more worthy to wield Mjilnor than Superman?

The Punisher comes to mind. Thor is a warrior God, warriors fight battles and kill. Superman refuses to kill. So in my mind, Superman would not be worthy by Norse Warrior Standards.

 

[Brainiac 8]

If Daredevil, Cloak, Dagger, etc etc can withstand having the hammer thrown directly at them and living, I think Superman can stand up to a few hits with it.

 

[The_Mystery]

When was Daredevil ever hit with the hammer?

 

[Fading]

I toss my vote in on the Avengers.

Fact is Avengers usually have Capt. leading the charge, and he's the best. There's a reason as a peak human he's a must have on the Avengers despite not being a prep time king or super genius or wearing tech. Capt's leadership alone starts them out on the advantage.

Also they have fought enough that I doubt they'd simply square off and let themselves get beat one by one. First time Capt. America sees one of his crew go down he'll bark orders to switch up, or help eachother out. The Avengers may be made up of seperate powerful individuals, but they all have one thing in common, and that's following Capt. America's orders without hesitation.

Next is that in all honesty I think Galactus could take out Superman and Green Lantern at the same time, and if Spiderman was being honest then Sentry is on equal footing with Galactus. Right off the bat Sentry can hold his own against both at the same time. Personally I'd have him take out GL and Wonderwoman. I feel Thor could take out Supes, aside from just "having a magical hammer", he can actually do things with that hammer. Aside from god-blasts and using lightning it can do a number of other things. Like when he swirled it around Juggernaut to take away Juggernaut's invunlerability. Thor can most likely find a way to use his hammer to weaken Superman, and hopefully wouldn't simply slug it out with him, and even if he did Mjolnir would hurt Superman bad.

Ironman with extremis now could possibly control an army of Ironman suits and take on several JLA members at the while Thor and Sentry finish their fights. Quicksilver can atleast hold Flash off with his new powers until the others finish. Cap can take on Batman and most likely win. Also Scarlet Witch at reality warping powers can possibly just toss all the JLA into an alternate reality or something and not much they can do.

It would be a good fight. I'd like to see it written by someone with very good knowledge of both sides and no bias.

 

[torkibe]

The Punisher comes to mind. Thor is a warrior God, warriors fight battles and kill. Superman refuses to kill. So in my mind, Superman would not be worthy by Norse Warrior Standards.

Superman fights with honor, courage, and valor. He never backs down. I think that would be more important than the fact that he never kills. I don't really see Thor going out and killing folks either.

 

[Fading]

If Daredevil, Cloak, Dagger, etc etc can withstand having the hammer thrown directly at them and living, I think Superman can stand up to a few hits with it.

Ya I'm not so sure of that either, he actually got hit with the hammer? Or was it just thrown in his direction like in CW? Which that would be Clor, and not Mjolnir.

Thor throwing his hammer turned Juggernaut's helmet into shredded metal, not sure a normal human can survive a direct hit without losing a few limbs if he throws it hard.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

You people who have been saying Thor can beat Superman haven't been reading his comics since OYL have you? I mean his power levels are not off the chart this guy is doing stuff his Silver Age counter part could do and beyond.

 

[Kitsune]

You people who have been saying Thor can beat Superman haven't been reading his comics since OYL have you? I mean his power levels are not off the chart this guy is doing stuff his Silver Age counter part could do and beyond.

A good reason NOT to read OYL. Overpowered Superman sucks.

 

[torkibe]

You people who have been saying Thor can beat Superman haven't been reading his comics since OYL have you? I mean his power levels are not off the chart this guy is doing stuff his Silver Age counter part could do and beyond.

Do you mean the current "Superman" title (now at #657) or do you mean "All Star Superman"?

edit: Or do you mean "Action Comics"?

 

[Brainiac 8]

Ya I'm not so sure of that either, he actually got hit with the hammer? Or was it just thrown in his direction like in CW? Which that would be Clor, and not Mjolnir.

Thor throwing his hammer turned Juggernaut's helmet into shredded metal, not sure a normal human can survive a direct hit without losing a few limbs if he throws it hard.

I was referring to CW, and I know it was a thor clone with a cybernetic hammer, but the thing killed Goliath, having the hammer thrown and slammed into a normal human should have killed him.

All Star is right, OYL Superman is much stronger than he used to be.