John Stossel interviews Ron Paul

[Matt]

Shadow Boxing hasn't posted in this thread. We're talking about this thread.

You entered this thread just to let everyone know that you don't give a damn about Ron Paul and don't care to know any more about him. That would be considered trolling in other parts of these boards.

Opps, I meant to say Outsiderzedge.

I was making the point that he cannot win because a majority of America (myself included) do not know much about him nor care to know.

 

[bell110]

I'd argue that it is too little too late, regardless of this quarter. The first primary is nearly a month away and if any GOP candidate appears to be sneaking up as a dark horse it would be Mike Huckabee. That being said, if Paul some how did pull out a miraculous win, I would definitely give voting for him in the general some serious consideration if his campaign indicates to me that he is willing to compromise and will not simply dead lock our country for 4 years.

I'm sorry, but that line of thinking is a big pet peeve of mine. You would only vote for him if he had a chance? I don't get that. Voting isn't about picking a winner, it's about picking someone who represents you. It's like being a Patriots fan just because they are very good this season. Bandwagon voting. And I'm not directing this at you, since you said you're a Robertson supporter anyways, just that general line of thinking that a lot of people have. That and the "I don't vote because my one vote doesn't mean anything", line of thought. If everybody who didn't vote voted for someone they truely believed in, we might actually have some positive change in America, and not another George Bush.

I admit, Paul probably won't win, but I'm voting for him regardless.

 

[Superman4ever]

Ron Paul OWNS all.

G-d I hope this guy gets the Rep. nomination.

 

[Matt]

I'm sorry, but that line of thinking is a big pet peeve of mine. You would only vote for him if he had a chance? I don't get that. Voting isn't about picking a winner, it's about picking someone who represents you. It's like being a Patriots fan just because they are very good this season. Bandwagon voting. And I'm not directing this at you, since you said you're a Robertson supporter anyways, just that general line of thinking that a lot of people have. That and the "I don't vote because my one vote doesn't mean anything", line of thought. If everybody who didn't vote voted for someone they truely believed in, we might actually have some positive change in America, and not another George Bush.

I admit, Paul probably won't win, but I'm voting for him regardless.

I'm not going to waste my vote if it can go to someone like Edwards who CAN win and represents me more than Hilary or Obama who will beat him. Do you follow? You should vote for the best person to represent you, but if they have no chance wouldn't you rather vote for the person who does have a chance who best represents you?

 

[Mr Sparkle]

The only people who have a problem with his stance on the naturalization of children born to illegal immigrants are illegal immigrants, which, in most cases, are hispanic like yourself.

Please look past your race and see that allowing illegal immigrants to circumvent the naturalization process by illegally coming over here and popping out a kid before we can deport them is not fair to those who seek citizenship legally.

actually, that's completely incorrect.
if this was applied to any other race I'd think the exact same thing.
really, let's not get into the completely unrelated " circumvent the naturalization process " thing.
seriously, it's stupid, let it go.
certainly you know that recently a lawsuit was filed in the name of about 4 million kids whose parents were deported, regardless of the fact that theeir children were born in the US, so frankly it's not even an issue.
do read up on stuff before you recite me plattitudes.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Well, you are kind of biased though.

ahahaha! what a load of ****.
I guess that's tacit agreement that this is a racial law though.
good to know.
I hope you people know that not only do Most Mexicans not "dream" of one day working in the US ( I never did) but some do pretty well for themselves in both their own countries and other countries around the world.
again, if this was presented in any other coutry for the same reason, I'd think the same thing.

 

[Lackey]

Opps, I meant to say Outsiderzedge.

I was making the point that he cannot win because a majority of America (myself included) do not know much about him nor care to know.

You started an argument with Outsiderzedge because you were trolling in this thread only to end it by giving out an unwarranted warning...

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=11233918&#post11233918


http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=11238964&#post11238964


http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=11269525&#post11269525


http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=10464601&#post10464601


http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=10400814#post10400814

The point still stands that what you did would be considered trolling in other parts of these boards. If there was a thread about some TV show and you posted there only to inform everyone that you never watched the show, but don't give a damn about it, and don't think it has any chance of lasting, that would be trolling.

 

[bell110]

I'm not going to waste my vote if it can go to someone like Edwards who CAN win and represents me more than Hilary or Obama who will beat him. Do you follow? You should vote for the best person to represent you, but if they have no chance wouldn't you rather vote for the person who does have a chance who best represents you?

I don't believe in a wasted vote. Your vote is your voice. Even though he will lose, if a lot of people vote for him, he will more people curious about what all the hype is about. More people will look him up, some people will support what he stands for some wont, but it adds more people to his cause. Then maybe 4 years later, he or someone like him will have more supporters, which will get more votes, which will hype his causes even more. The more people that voice their support for his causes, the more politicians might follow. It's a snowball effect.

BUT, if everybody only voted for the top three, then politicians will think that their issues are what the people want, and will keep the same system that we've had where everybody just parrots each other.

I know, I'm too optimistic.

 

[SuBe]

ahahaha! what a load of ****.
I guess that's tacit agreement that this is a racial law though.
good to know.
I hope you people know that not only do Most Mexicans not "dream" of one day working in the US ( I never did) but some do pretty well for themselves in both their own countries and other countries around the world.
again, if this was presented in any other coutry for the same reason, I'd think the same thing.

United States Immigration Laws do not have anything to do with Mexico. They have everything to do the the United States having Laws and people that want to be in this country should respect those laws. Illegal Alien does not mean Mexican. The Immigration Laws were around longer than the 12 millions estimated illegal Aliens that happen to be Mexican. This is not a Race Issue, this is a Criminal Issue. Don't play the race card on me friend, you don't know where I'm from.

 

[sinewave]

I bet you pinko-commie liberal bastards are just squirming in your dirty, grimey little holes.

Sorry, my contempt for what your political party has come to represent came out in that last sentence.

but fascist, corrupt, war-mongering, religious-radical, incompetent perverts are OK on the other end of the spectrum? i'll never understand how one extreme is acceptable while the complete opposite end of the spectrum is ok, especially since the one not in question has been causing more problems than the other.

 

[Darthphere]

There is a process, a way to come here legally. They should wait in line like everyone else. Just like my mother did.

I don't give a **** what your mother did.

 

[SuBe]

I don't give a **** what your mother did.

That's good, I don't give a crap what yours did either, but she isn't a criminal for breaking immigration law. You need to settle down.

 

[Darthphere]

That's good, I don't give a crap what yours did either, but she isn't a criminal for breaking immigration law. You need to settle down.

You need to make more relevant points than whatever crap your mom did. Your mom is irrelevant to this discussion. As if your mom going through the naturalization process makes her or yourself better than someone else. It doesn't. Stick to the facts and the actual debate rather than bringing in superfluous garbage no one cares about.

 

[Lackey]

but fascist, corrupt, war-mongering, religious-radical, incompetent perverts are OK on the other end of the spectrum? i'll never understand how one extreme is acceptable while the complete opposite end of the spectrum is ok, especially since the one not in question has been causing more problems than the other.

Your first mistake is thinking that they're opposite ends of the spectrum. They're not, they're both the same.

 

[SuBe]

Ok, Below is Ron Pauls Immigration Stance:

-Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
-Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
-No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
-No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
-End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
-Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

I would believe this IF Ron Paul does not win the Primary, he hopefully would receive a VP nod.

 

[sinewave]

Your first mistake is thinking that they're opposite ends of the spectrum. They're not, they're both the same.

that's an easy statement to make, the tough part is proving it. they aren't remotely the same.

 

[sinewave]

Ok, Below is Ron Pauls Immigration Stance:

-Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
-Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
-No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
-No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
-End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
-Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

I would believe this IF Ron Paul does not win the Primary, he hopefully would receive a VP nod.

all this talk about securing our borders and stopping illegal immigrants, but does anyone care about the number of unchecked cargo that comes into this country? if you're interested in protecting our borders from terrorists, that should be higher on the list, in my opinion.

 

[Lackey]

that's an easy statement to make, the tough part is proving it. they aren't remotely the same.

actually it's very easy to prove

http://www.jbs.org/node/3179

http://www.jbs.org/node/4635



If you need, I can break that down for you when I get back from lunch.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

United States Immigration Laws do not have anything to do with Mexico. They have everything to do the the United States having Laws and people that want to be in this country should respect those laws. Illegal Alien does not mean Mexican. The Immigration Laws were around longer than the 12 millions estimated illegal Aliens that happen to be Mexican. This is not a Race Issue, this is a Criminal Issue. Don't play the race card on me friend, you don't know where I'm from.

no.
it's millions less than that.
the estimate was that there were 12 million illegals in the US
out of which 50 percent were Mexican.
and you're the one " playing the race card" assuming that I'm "biased"
simply because I'm from Mexico.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

There is a process, a way to come here legally. They should wait in line like everyone else. Just like my mother did.

man, I hate it when people boil this to " they should wait in line"
simple explanation for you sport.
there's no line to wait on.
skilled workers from Mexico can't get a work visa most of the time unless they are sponsored by a company.
that's skilled workers.
now, do you think that someone who can only pick fruit is going to " wait in line"? no.
he is going to get flat out denied entry, in fact, many people are denied simple visas for VISITING the country, and I don't mean like stay in the states to live, I mean Border crosser cards.
I have friends who can't go to the states because they were denied border crosser cards, why?
one was given the reason " you don't make enough money" even though he makes about 500 dlls a week, a good salary in Tijuana.
plus, I have no idea were your mother hails from, but there's different criteria for different countries, Mexico and the rest of latin America faces the thoughest regulations for Immigration into the states ( except for Argentina) so again, I'd love for this " wait in line" bull**** to just die.
it's not about these people wanting to get to the states " faster" by " cutting in line" it's because they can't get to the states legally that they go Illegaly, it's not even that difficult to understand.

 

[sinewave]

actually it's very easy to prove

http://www.jbs.org/node/3179

http://www.jbs.org/node/4635



If you need, I can break that down for you when I get back from lunch.

1) that's from a self-described "conservative index"

2) it has nothing to do with corruption, religious radicalism or competence

i love it when people pull out voting records to try and prove something. those things are so easily manipulated, it's unreal. you can claim someone is against a bill that had another bill attached to it for something that's very divisive. for instance, a bill to withdraw troops from iraq immediately could have a bill to increase funding to rebuild new orleans attached to it and that bill would obviously be shot down by republicans in congress and the senate, so the dems could easily turn around and claim senator so-and-so voted against rebuilding new orleans.

i get what you're basically saying, though. you think they're all corrupt and incompetent, no matter which party they belong too. i disagree. it's tough for me to make a realistic claim about most dems being incompetent because they've only been in power for a year, though they haven't gotten as much done as i had hoped. the corruption angle, though? that's easy. just pick up a paper and you're bound to see another republican scandal. war-mongering? the number of republicans in washington in support of the war in iraq is much higher than on the dems' side. perverts? yeah, i don't recall any dems popping up in the d.c. madame story, and there are far too many republicans to count getting caught in page scandals, gay sex scandals, cases of infidelity, etc...

sorry, but i'm not buying into your claim of both parties being the same.

 

[Lackey]

sorry, but i'm not buying into your claim of both parties being the same.

fine by me if you want to blind yourself to the truth

 

[sinewave]

fine by me if you want to blind yourself to the truth

back at you.

 

[Lackey]

back at you.

except that I gave you evidence and you gave me nothing.


That index is created by a conservative group, so you would think if there was any bias in their findings, it would a pro-Republican bias. However, if you actually looked at those links I gave you'd see that not only do most politicians end up being "middle of the road" whether they're democrat or republican, but the democrat-majority congress actually turns out to be more conservative than the republican-majority congress.
Barely half of the current members of the House of Representatives scored above 50.
Both parties are statist in that they put their faith in government to solve every problem. More government is the answer for both sides.

 

[zenile]

United States Immigration Laws do not have anything to do with Mexico. They have everything to do the the United States having Laws and people that want to be in this country should respect those laws. Illegal Alien does not mean Mexican. The Immigration Laws were around longer than the 12 millions estimated illegal Aliens that happen to be Mexican. This is not a Race Issue, this is a Criminal Issue. Don't play the race card on me friend, you don't know where I'm from.

By that same argument, should we not also respect the 14th Amendment? Are we then going to amend the constitution each and every time it doesn't agree to our tastes