Justice League Justice League Box Office Prediction - Part 2

[DeadlyDiarrhea]

The funny thing is as bad as the enforced runtime hurt the movie, the entire up and down history of the DCEU is almost a textbook case of why sometimes you need to step in and put limitations on your artists. There are so many decisions in Man of Steel and Batman v. Superman where someone up top should have really said "No, Zack, we're not letting you do that" and yet they didn't.



Wonder Woman has had a lot of people interested in her over the years, actually. Aside from Whedon, the director of Drive was pushing really hard to make the movie for a while.

The difference was WB didn't want to do a Wonder Woman movie because until recently, there was a stupid presumption that there wasn't an audience for female superhero movies.

So if I'm interpreting you right, the lack of Superman movies (until MOS) can be attributed to director reluctance, while the lack of Wonder Woman movies
(until 2017 WW) can be attributed to studio reluctance? Am I reading that right?

If so, then what makes Superman a difficult character to make a movie about versus Wonder Woman? Personally I like Wonder Woman better, but I may be biased by the success of DCEU Wonder Woman (one of the few successes of this universe).

 

[Question]

Mate, the audience has flat out rejected JL. There's not going to be a JL 2 after this.

JL has an audience score only three points below Wonder Woman though? The lack of box office draw is probably blowback to BvS. The actual JL movie itself to me seems like it's going over well with movie-goers. People who've seen the movie, for the most part, enjoy it.

Now they most likely will not have another big team up movie for sometime. But there will be more solos and most of the cast will keep appearing in movies. Eventually they can build up enough good will to do another one.

 

[jmc]

JL has an audience score only three points below Wonder Woman though? The lack of box office draw is probably blowback to BvS. The actual JL movie itself to me seems like it's going over well with movie-goers.

The audiences scores online are inflate from fans, overtime they come down as what happened with BvS and SS.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Half of them were there before the movie opened. It's fanboys and bots. Bots and fanboys.

 

[Juan1193]

Yup.

Cyborg though remains random to me.

It's probably because DC/WB didn't want an all White JL line-up. Sadly though, DC doesn't have any A-list minority characters. I think John Stewart GL is the closest one.

Though to be fair Blue Beetle, Static, Black Lightning and Vixen are quite popular B-listers. But, the former two aren't associated with the JL and the latter two, well DC refuses to push them as important Leaguers. Cyborg is indeed an odd choice to try and push to the A-list...I wonder why DC chose him.

 

[Question]

The fact of the matter is that the audience has not rejected JL. They may be reluctant to view it because of being gun-shy from BvS, but the film itself has at least been passable to most people who've seen it.

 

[DeadlyDiarrhea]

The audiences scores online are inflate from fans, overtime they come down as what happened with BvS and SS.

It's so hilarious how the DCEU Reddit places so much stake on the RT audience score, without realizing that somehow JL has more ratings than Thor. The willingness for some fans to forgo all integrity when promoting their views is just dismaying.

 

[Zero_Effect]

Nolan's first choice was Duncan Jones, who politely said "Thanks but no thanks."

Not sure that is true.

Jones had this to say about it:

"It wasn’t up to me. I think Chris Nolan and Warner Bros. put together a shortlist of about six or seven directors, and I was on there. I had my meeting with Chris Nolan. It was a really exciting opportunity. It was terrific for me just to have a chance to meet Chris Nolan and talk about filmmaking. He asked me a lot of questions about Moon and about Source Code. Then we talked just in general about things, but I think Zack Snyder is going to make a terrific Superman film."


Adding this to what his pitch to Nolan was:

"It all worked out, though. It probably worked against me, but my pitch for a Superman film would be to take the Dr. Manhattan character from Watchmen, which I think is the best encompassing version of what Superman should be, this incredible sort of alien presence with superhuman powers who is so over powerful compared to the rest of humanity that he doesn’t understand how to relate to people. And I thought that’s what Superman should be, but they got Zack Snyder in there and he already knows how to do that."

https://www.**************.com/superman/duncan-jones-talks-about-missing-out-on-superman-a34058

 

[eren]

i knew it. it would be the USA final boxoffice total, south korea, germany, france and japan that will determine if this reaches 1b mark. All other countries this movie will perform great by default. It need to do above average in these 4 countries as they are one of the top and important markets. and as of now its just doing slightly solid e on those 4, and that is not enough. hopefully legs is be better

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Good god. He doesn't get it either. Manhattan is the opposite of Superman.

 

[SomeOldGuy]

So if I'm interpreting you right, the lack of Superman movies (until MOS) can be attributed to director reluctance, while the lack of Wonder Woman movies
(until 2017 WW) can be attributed to studio reluctance? Am I reading that right?

If so, then what makes Superman a difficult character to make a movie about versus Wonder Woman? Personally I like Wonder Woman better, but I may be biased by the success of DCEU Wonder Woman (one of the few successes of this universe).

I’d recommend heading out to YouTube and looking up MovieBob’s Really That Good episode on Superman The Movie. (No link since it has swearing) He does a good job explaining why the character is difficult to do unless you come at him from his own point of view, and I think many directors just don’t find that very interesting. There’s also a long history of failed Superman productions in Hollywood, so it’s probably also seen as not something worth the time because it probably won’t happen.

 

[Kanon]

If so, then what makes Superman a difficult character to make a movie about versus Wonder Woman? Personally I like Wonder Woman better, but I may be biased by the success of DCEU Wonder Woman (one of the few successes of this universe).

Superman is one of the most difficult heroes. You can just put some monster as the enemy 'cause Superman is the strongest as the premise, so the stakes of a final battle are different with him. You have to challenge him in other levels, and that's very difficult as a writter. But I think the reason the movie took so long is because is though to sell, so you have to do it extra right, because of the visual (powers and old school super hero suit)

 

[007]

It needs to do a billion at the bo to break even.

I doubt it will even do 800 million globally.

 

[Juan1193]

Mate, the audience has flat out rejected JL. There's not going to be a JL 2 after this.

I was moreso referring to letting the passage of time heal the wound. Give the audience good solo films then team them up again after a fair amount of time has passed from the first film.

Finish the Wonder Woman and Superman trilogies, give Batman a solo wih a new actor, give Aquaman and Shazam their sequels (assuming they do just as good as Wonder Woman)... Then presto JL2 teaming them up again, only this time with a few years of build up.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

You need to approach Superman as Marvel approached Cap. A paragon of moral virtue and ultimate goodness*. Cap's goofiness is what makes him great. Especially in contrast to Tony Stark's rogue charm.


*Before Civil War. The movie very deliberately compromised Cap.

 

[KalvinEllis]

It's probably because DC/WB didn't want an all White JL line-up. Sadly though, DC doesn't have any A-list minority characters. I think John Stewart GL is the closest one.

Though to be fair Blue Beetle, Static, Black Lightning and Vixen are quite popular B-listers. But, the former two aren't associated with the JL and the latter two, well DC refuses to push them as important Leaguers. Cyborg is indeed an odd choice to try and push to the A-list...I wonder why DC chose him.

Probably for the same reason you consider John Stewart to be close to A-list. Like him, Cyborg was a somewhat prominent minority character in the comics whose popularity was boosted by the cartoons he was featured in. The fact that he is tech-based probably played a part in his push too, and also because he's a standalone original character, not another representative of a legacy mantle.

 

[JtheDreamer]

The audiences scores online are inflate from fans, overtime they come down as what happened with BvS and SS.

It's amazing how many times it has to be explained that the "audience score" on RT is carried over from the "Wants to see" tally that's there before the movie opens.

 

[Moridin]

From what I gathered, it seems like many directors were reluctant to take on a Superman project.

So here's the question(s). Is there something about Superman that makes him a difficult character for directors to want to make a movie about? Did Wonder Woman also experience similar such difficulties in getting directors who want to do a film about her prior to Patty? If not, then why so?

I'm asking this because I'm not familiar enough with the comics to have in-depth knowledge about these characters, having only gotten into DCEU recently (thanks WW).

I think it comes down to a lot of people (executives & creatives) thinking Superman is too altruistic and optimistic a character to fly (pun!) with modern supposedly more cynical audiences, and so they didn't really know what to do with him. I they viewed Supes as too old fashioned, but had no idea of how to update him.

Keep in mind, they were looking for a director for Superman back around 2009/10, Snyder got the job in October 2010. So this is before the rise of Captain America, a similarly characterised blue boyscout, showing that this type of character can definitely be popular ("people might just need a little old fashion"). Wondy this year further cemented that.

 

[writer0327]

You need to approach Superman as Marvel approached Cap. A paragon of moral virtue and ultimate goodness*. Cap's goofiness is what makes him great. Especially in contrast to Tony Stark's rogue charm.


*Before Civil War. The movie very deliberately compromised Cap.

I think Marvel played Cap like that as a comedic bit. Superman stands apart from the world as a beacon of light in a land of darkness, but there's no reason to make him a goofy character. You can have Supes as a straight laced hero without being goofy. In fact that's how i prefer him.

 

[xenos5]

So if I'm interpreting you right, the lack of Superman movies (until MOS) can be attributed to director reluctance, while the lack of Wonder Woman movies
(until 2017 WW) can be attributed to studio reluctance? Am I reading that right?

If so, then what makes Superman a difficult character to make a movie about versus Wonder Woman? Personally I like Wonder Woman better, but I may be biased by the success of DCEU Wonder Woman (one of the few successes of this universe).

Superman is essentially seen as the superhero archetype.

The boyscout who saves lives, asks for nothing in return, and believes in the good of humanity more than anything else.

That is the mainstream perception of him for the most part.

There have been good stories in comics where he does have internal conflicts and his moral code is tested but before all of that you have to get the foundation for his character right for those internal conflicts to actually have meaning.

Portraying Superman properly in movies can be a balancing act as if not written properly it is very easy for him to be seen as boring by audiences. He can look too unrelatable or too "perfect".

 

[Axl Van Sixx]

I think it comes down to a lot of people (executives & creatives) thinking Superman is too altruistic and optimistic a character to fly (pun!) with modern supposedly more cynical audiences, and so they didn't really know what to do with him. I they viewed Supes as too old fashioned, but had no idea of how to update him.

Keep in mind, they were looking for a director for Superman back around 2009/10, Snyder got the job in October 2010. So this is before the rise of Captain America, a similarly characterised blue boyscout, showing that this type of character can definitely be popular ("people might just need a little old fashion"). Wondy this year further cemented that.

This is the exactly problem with WB though. Everything they do is reactionary. They're either reacting to another movie's box office success, or another movie's box office disappointment/bomb, but they never seem to have much confidence in the DC characters themselves, Batman aside.

It seems like their biggest successes (Richard Donner's Superman, Tim Burton's Batman, TDKT, Wonder Woman) have come through sheer dumb luck, because they hired a skilled director with a strong vision for the material. Don't forget Patty Jenkins wasn't even their first choice to direct WW.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I think Marvel played Cap like that as a comedic bit. Superman stands apart from the world as a beacon of light in a land of darkness, but there's no reason to make him a goofy character. You can have Supes as a straight laced hero without being goofy. In fact that's how i prefer him.

Cap was only goofy in the Hitler punching scene and in portions of AOU? Most of the time he is taken very seriously.

 

[jmc]

I was moreso referring to letting the passage of time heal the wound. Give the audience good solo films then team them up again after a fair amount of time has passed from the first film.

Finish the Wonder Woman and Superman trilogies, give Batman a solo wih a new actor, give Aquaman and Shazam their sequels (assuming they do just as good as Wonder Woman)... Then presto JL2 teaming them up again, only this time with a few years of build up.

I just question whether that's even possible now. I'm not even sure Aquaman is in a safe place any longer.

 

[Silver Surfer]

The idea of a flashpoint movie makes no sense, you're basically telling the public that your movie universe is so bad you have to reboot it and then asking them to pay to see that. The GA will just wait for the actual reboot then, why waste money.

Just hard reboot the universe and do a better job next time.

 

[jmc]

The idea of a flashpoint movie makes no sense, you're basically telling the public that your movie universe is so bad you have to reboot it and then asking them to pay to see that. The GA will just wait for the actual reboot then, why waste money.

Just hard reboot the universe and do a better job next time.

Exactly. You're better off saving your money and start starting from scratch. Flashpoint no longer makes any sense.