Justice League Justice League: News and Speculation - - - - - - Part 20

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]512537[/split]

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]512285[/split]

 

[Verick808]

Yeah I almost left too, but I enjoy discussing with most people I just have to filter better.

The Suicide Squad board is kind of funny...a mini version of the BvS board at the height of its fun and insanity. Basically every bit of news is argues as bad for opposite reasons. For example, some believe the reshoots (which arent even news they were announced in January) are because they want to add more humor while others think it is a sign they want to go R rated like Deadpool. Some say the movie will have too many jokes (and become GOTG) while others believe all the jokes are seen in trailer 2. So it is either A or B but they both prove the movie is doomed! (whereas the truth is it is neither they are just doing what every movie does)

In Ayer I trust is all I have to say.

 

[KillerWolf]

Yeah I almost left too, but I enjoy discussing with most people I just have to filter better.

The Suicide Squad board is kind of funny...a mini version of the BvS board at the height of its fun and insanity. Basically every bit of news is argues as bad for opposite reasons. For example, some believe the reshoots (which arent even news they were announced in January) are because they want to add more humor while others think it is a sign they want to go R rated like Deadpool. Some say the movie will have too many jokes (and become GOTG) while others believe all the jokes are seen in trailer 2. So it is either A or B but they both prove the movie is doomed! (whereas the truth is it is neither they are just doing what every movie does)

Ah, Hype, you have to love it.

In a way one loves cutting himself.

But seriously, absolutely none of these things have crossed my mind when I heard of those reshoots. I know that Deborah Snyder said that directors are constantly communicating and informing one another of any changes, so I assumed it had to do with connecting something with subsequent films, which either Jenkins or Snyder added in their respective films.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

Death of Superman wasn't good idea for JL Segway, bound to get criticism either way.

-If Superman comes back early on then there's no weight to his death. Especially if Superman is shown in all trailers and promotional JL stuff. His death becomes an excuse for Batman to form the JL.


-If Superman comes in at the end then it sucks he wasn't in the movie much, and once again Cavill doesn't get a lot of time to shine as Superman.

 

[KillerWolf]

And here's one for the new part, in hope that we do get to talk about Justice League:

 

[Herolee10]

Death of Superman wasn't good idea for JL Segway, bound to get criticism either way.

-If Superman comes back early on then there's no weight to his death. Especially if Superman is shown in all trailers and promotional JL stuff. His death becomes an excuse for Batman to form the JL.


-If Superman comes in at the end then it sucks he wasn't in the movie much, and once again Cavill doesn't get a lot of time to shine as Superman.

Either way, Superman gets the short end of the stick with this deal. What's even more insulting and infuriating is that the biggest reason why Snyder wanted Superman gone was so that he could give Batman free reigns to assemble the entire League on his own.

I honestly don't get his logic on that part. I mean, how would having Superman alive and well make things any less difficult in recruiting the members? The whole point of BvS was how the world was divided on Superman, so isn't it safe to assume that not every league member would be pro-Superman at first if he were to come and enlist their help?

It's one of the many reasons why I detest Snyder as a filmmaker/director (not as a person of course) right now because the guy pretty much crucified Superman on film. Two DC films by him has already damaged Superman's reputation in ways a lot worse than what Superman 3, IV, and SR did combined.

 

[Tv's Phil]

I don't really know how to quote from old threads so I'll just respond inna general way.

I'm not sure what the League will know or will have learned that tell them that they can bring Superman back to life. If that is indeed what he was talking about.

I will say I do share in people's hesitance to see evil Superman, Darkseid controlled or whatever. I'm not as hard lined against it but it seems like a bad way to go after showing him being questioned as a threat.
But I don't doubt it could be done in an interesting way.

I only bring that up because someone mentioned Snyder's comment about him coming back and possibly being different.
Though that could mean a few things.

I'm not gonna dwell too much on it yet. We know nothing and it could be handled many different ways.
It's just an intriguing mystery to think about how he'll come back.

 

[Lucellit]

Death of Superman wasn't good idea for JL Segway, bound to get criticism either way.

-If Superman comes back early on then there's no weight to his death. Especially if Superman is shown in all trailers and promotional JL stuff. His death becomes an excuse for Batman to form the JL.


-If Superman comes in at the end then it sucks he wasn't in the movie much, and once again Cavill doesn't get a lot of time to shine as Superman.

It's really hard to imagine how they will handle Supes in JL marketing.
Maybe Supes statue will rebuild in different pose and they will use the photo for ads.

In movie, maybe characters will get to know Supes is alive early on, but he still in a deep coma. And his unconscious body will create another plot point?

 

[Herolee10]

I think for any fan of Superman, it would be best at this point to go into this film without ANY expectations for the character. Hell, it would be considered a freaking miracle at this point if Superman were to be resurrected without being turned evil or with his screen time being equivalent to the Vision's in AOU.

But Snyder has clearly shown that he doesn't understand Superman's character and doesn't care about him in the long term.

 

[KillerWolf]

Death of Superman wasn't good idea for JL Segway

-If Superman comes back early on right after the League is formed by Batman then there's no weight to his death. Especially if Superman is shown in all trailers and promotional JL stuff. His death becomes an excuse for Batman to form the JL.
-If Superman comes at the end then it sucks he wasn't in the movie much, and once again Cavill doesn't get a lot of time to shine as Superman.

I was not happy with it initially and would probably still rather go with Supes being alive at the end, but I can see a possibility of "Suicide Squad", WW or part of JL needing a world without Superman to tell a certain story. It could be they needed Supes out of the picture for some reason. Also, we all know he will return and the "weight" of his death isn't necessarily only on emotional level of the viewer, but the way it will affect subsequent stories.

And I don't think it'll be just a gimmick or a pointless "twist", I assume it will pay off in the end. As always, I'm first and foremost for good storytelling and I do see a potential for it with this.

 

[Verick808]

Death of Superman wasn't good idea for JL Segway

-If Superman comes back early on right after the League is formed by Batman then there's no weight to his death. Especially if Superman is shown in all trailers and promotional JL stuff. His death becomes an excuse for Batman to form the JL.
-If Superman comes at the end then it sucks he wasn't in the movie much, and once again Cavill doesn't get a lot of time to shine as Superman.

Or we get what we got in the comics and get some form of an after world story with Superman. The truth is Superman's death was part of his arc in BvS. It was there to prove to himself and the world What he was willing to do. He was not just a god toying with humans. His actions were not the results of his whims but his conviction to do good in the world.
This death was never meant to be weighty and were never meant to truly believe he is dead.

 

[Herolee10]

The fact that Snyder couldn't give more things for Superman to say and thought that the best thing that he could do with Superman's character in his second film would be to kill him for the time being pretty much shows that Snyder doesn't know what to do with Superman in the long run.

 

[Verick808]

And here's one for the new part, in hope that we do get to talk about Justice League:

Just look at the man here. Front and center. All heroic looking. Supes will have his time in the sun. He'll probably even smile more, just being happy not to be dead anymore can do that to a person.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

I think a lot of posters just want to see "Superman". The more traditional version that we see in the comics/tv. Many fans/defenders of Snyder and myself included always said that in MOS he wasn't Superman yet. And for MOS that wasn;t bad. It was an origin story, of course he wasn't going to be Superman from the getgo. Clark was just learning to fly, and the next day he had to face an alien invasion of earth. As shown by the oil rig rescue we can see Clark had been using his powers to help people, but had been afraid of committing to being a superhero. Then we see him at the end of MOS with the Clark Kent reporter disguise, and we think to ourselves yep from that point onwards he's going to be a fully fledged superhero.

But in BVS he's still wondering if what he's doing is right for the earth, whether his dad was right, how to best intervene with conflicts. Clark still isn't Superman yet. Zack Snyder even said in an interview it takes a resurrection for Clark to become the classic Superman. That's just way to long a transition IMO.

 

[Verick808]

The fact that Snyder couldn't give more things for Superman to say and thought that the best thing that he could do with Superman's character in his second film would be to kill him for the time being pretty much shows that Snyder doesn't know what to do with Superman in the long run.

It just means he didn't want Supes convincing everyone to join him and save the world in like two minutes. Snyder has pretty much said so.

 

[Herolee10]

Just look at the man here. Front and center. All heroic looking. Supes will have his time in the sun. He'll probably even smile more, just being happy not to be dead anymore can do that to a person.

Others have mentioned that given on how this was released way before any early viewings were shown for the film, this could have been an way for Snyder and company to throw people off of their trail so that no one would even think that they would pull out the "Death" storyline for Superman in BvS.

Another good example is how, even though he only had a very small role in the actual film, Cyclops was promoted with everyone else for the X3 marketing, even shown in full gear despite never actually wearing his suit in the film.

 

[Tv's Phil]

Either way, Superman gets the short end of the stick with this deal. What's even more insulting and infuriating is that the biggest reason why Snyder wanted Superman gone was so that he could give Batman free reigns to assemble the entire League on his own.

I honestly don't get his logic on that part. I mean, how would having Superman alive and well make things any less difficult in recruiting the members? The whole point of BvS was how the world was divided on Superman, so isn't it safe to assume that not every league member would be pro-Superman at first if he were to come and enlist their help?

It's one of the many reasons why I detest Snyder as a filmmaker/director (not as a person of course) right now because the guy pretty much crucified Superman on film. Two DC films by him has already damaged Superman's reputation in ways a lot worse than what Superman 3, IV, and SR did combined.

Idk about all that.
Batman's not going into JL on the winds of triumph. He's not forming anything alone and currently thinks of himself as a failure for what he tried to do to Superman. His reputation in a way, as a cruel version willing to kill, is looked at similarly to how Superman's was seen to some after MoS for killing Zod. Judging by how many people were mad that Batman killed despite it being part of the story. It's an interesting parallel, IMO.

Besides, there are a lot of new fans of Superman because of this version. There may be plenty of old fans who wish he had more heroic moments but as far as I can tell, what Snyder's version stands for and believes in are still the same.

I don't think it's as damaged as you may think. I can't prove that but that's what I see anecdotally.

 

[RadioSha]

Killing Superman is fine.

They just better bring him back as soon as possible. Not in JL Pt 2. Not in Man of Steel sequel. I hope they bring him back in JL.

 

[Herolee10]

It just means he didn't want Supes convincing everyone to join him and save the world in like two minutes. Snyder has pretty much said so.

But that's the thing though. What would make him think that his version of Superman would be capable of something like that? Superman was considered to be a very controversial figure in the world of BvS and it wasn't until his death that more people started to warm up to him. So if he never died in the first place, then people would have still been wary of him so I don't see why that wariness of Superman doesn't apply to the rest of the league members.

 

[Sleiek]

Killing Superman is fine.

They just better bring him back as soon as possible. Not in JL Pt 2. Not in Man of Steel sequel. I hope they bring him back in JL.

Your signature is perfect.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

And also what's so bad about Superman/Batman recruiting people together?

 

[Verick808]

I think a lot of posters just want to see "Superman". The more traditional version that we see in the comics/tv. Many fans/defenders of Snyder and myself included always said that in MOS he wasn't Superman yet. And for MOS that wasn;t bad. It was an origin story. Clark was just learning to fly, and the next day he had to face an alien invasion of earth. As shown by the oil rig rescue we can see Clark had been using his powers to help people, but had been afraid of committing to being a superhero. Then we see him at the end of MOS with the Clark Kent reporter disguise, and we think to ourselves yep from that point onwards he's going to be a fully fledged superhero.

But in BVS he's still wondering if what he's doing is right for the earth, whether his dad was right, how to best intervene with conflicts. Clark still isn't Superman yet. Zack Snyder even said in an interview it takes a resurrection for Clark to become the classic Superman. That's just way to long a transition IMO.

I wonder if this is how people feel if we didn't have to wait so long for this film to come out in the first place. Also in my opinion Superman never stops wondering if he's doing things the right way. He has too much power and responsibility to just find a way and stick to it. Peace on Earth has an experienced Superman and he still ended up on his knees contemplating his failure.
I feel like Snyder was going for a Superman similar to that. Maybe if he had someone like Paul Dini he could call up and ask how best to approach these questions he'd have more success though.

 

[Verick808]

Others have mentioned that given on how this was released way before any early viewings were shown for the film, this could have been an way for Snyder and company to throw people off of their trail so that no one would even think that they would pull out the "Death" storyline for Superman in BvS.

Another good example is how, even though he only had a very small role in the actual film, Cyclops was promoted with everyone else for the X3 marketing, even shown in full gear despite never actually wearing his suit in the film.

It's concept art and the concept art of the JL we've seen so far has Superman standing in the middle like a ****ing boss. A ****ing boss I tell you! I won't be convinced otherwise.

 

[Lucellit]

I think a lot of posters just want to see "Superman". The more traditional version that we see in the comics/tv. Many fans/defenders of Snyder and myself included always said that in MOS he wasn't Superman yet. And for MOS that wasn;t bad. It was an origin story. Clark was just learning to fly, and the next day he had to face an alien invasion of earth. As shown by the oil rig rescue we can see Clark had been using his powers to help people, but had been afraid of committing to being a superhero. Then we see him at the end of MOS with the Clark Kent reporter disguise, and we think to ourselves yep from that point onwards he's going to be a fully fledged superhero.

But in BVS he's still wondering if what he's doing is right for the earth, whether his dad was right, how to best intervene with conflicts. Clark still isn't Superman yet. Zack Snyder even said in an interview it takes a resurrection for Clark to become the classic Superman. That's just way to long a transition IMO.

Well, I'm intrigued with this version of Supes. I can see some character development, I can see he changed. Honestly, I'm more invested with Cavill's Supes than other version so far.

Terrio said MoS, BvS and JL are trilogy. Supes is the focal point of the story. Everything happen because of Supes and circling around him.

MoS enabling BvS, Superman and Metropolis battle affect Batman, Lex and to some extent, WW. I can't wait to see what will happen next and how Supes will finish his trilogy arc.