Kanye finally snapped!

[Teelie]

Because of me this is happening? Am I the one on the news? No, its the general population. Its your neighbor, your boyfriend, your girlfriend, your wife, your son. The KKK is still around, the Westboro Baptist Church is around, gangs are still around killing one another simply because they wear different colors. Don't act like the only reason stuff like this is going on is because I don't share the same sympathy for a bigot as you do. I'm not trying to get into an argument, I'm just trying to tell you that there is far more hate in the world than a couple of people debating on a SHH forum. And I am hardly the reason stuff like this happens.

What I think should be addressed with that response is that not one of those groups enjoys any kind of public approval. They are not looked on as positive or as people to look up to. They are rightly seen as the disgusting underbelly of society.

We don't want them. That they exist is unfortunate but that they are not welcome by the majority of society is more important.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

What people are failing to realize here is that it's not just racial slurs hurled at black people, it's all offensive slurs. If we all devolved like Kanye did and started beating up someone because of something they said, our society would fall apart.

And, like Pink Ranger pointed out, where do you draw the line for whom to beat up and for how long? The best course of action is to let it go. Why? Because no matter how badly you beat up the other person, you will lose in the end. They will sue you or have you arrested and your life will be in shambles.

And all over something stupid someone said at one time. We all get offended over different things. You can't say that the offence you took over something is more justified than the offence someone else took over something else. I'm German and people have called me a Nazi since the 4th grade. Is it highly offensive? Yes. Does it make me want to beat someone's face in? Yes. Do I? No.

For some people to say that being called the N-word is more offensive than anything else is just ridiculous.

It's not ridiculous.

As a black person I've been insulted with many different words but none cut as deep as the N-word. You can say I shouldn't react to a grave insult but you shouldn't tell me my feeling are invalid as an outsider looking in.

 

[Feenix]

It's not ridiculous.

As a black person I've been insulted with many different words but none cut as deep as the N-word. You can say I shouldn't react to a grave insult but you shouldn't tell me my feeling are invalid as an outsider looking in.

I'm not saying that! Holy heck, dude, you have an issue with reading comprehension.

My point is that everyone is offended by different things, but no one is more justified in resorting to violence over what was said than anyone else. Either everyone can kick the crap out of someone when they "offend" them or no one can.

I'm not saying your feelings are invalid, I'm saying that just because it offends you so much, doesn't mean that you have more of a right to resort to violence than someone else who is offended by something else.

Example:

Someone calls you the N-word and someone calls me a Nazi. We are both offended by what this person said to us. But, no one's offence is more valid than the other person. You don't have a right to beat that person up and neither do I.

 

[NickNitro]

What I think should be addressed with that response is that not one of those groups enjoys any kind of public approval. They are not looked on as positive or as people to look up to. They are rightly seen as the disgusting underbelly of society.

We don't want them. That they exist is unfortunate but that they are not welcome by the majority of society is more important.

But I can name some more hateful groups that are far more accepted. The Catholic church for one. I just named a few glaring ones but it wasn't limited to just them.

The fact that

1. White people have the balls tell black people how they should feel/act towards a racial slur like nigg**

and

2. Have this sense of moral high ground when clearly it's easier to judge from the outside looking in

is just really incredible to me. I have a hard time seeing the other side of the argument when these are in play.

We'd all like to think everyone should get along, hell I would love it. This is reality, it happens more often than not, just this time it was a public figure.

 

[Hal_Jordan]

You sure about that? Your post above was in response to my reply about minorites being offended by racial slurs and your response is that they shouldnt be offended period because theyre only words.

That's exactly what I said, you shouldn't(no one should) be offended to the point of violence by any word, but feel free to do so and let those words have as much power over you that you want.

I personally feel it's silly and childish to let someone be able to bait and manipulate another person with words like that.

 

[charl_huntress]

Translation: Punching benefits race relations. And the world in general. You really want to look me in the eyes (metaphorically), and claim that's the philosophy of an evolved species?

I do understand the moral ground you standing on, but I don't think the issue is as black or white as that. There are consequences for speaking out of turn the way this kid did...which is why people don't generally do it. It's not just politeness that keeps people in line.

My point and many others is that reacting violently to speech, even hate speech, rarely results in a positive outcome.

That is a valid point and definitely worth mentioning.

That is what I'm saying when I posted about not giving them a response. You think of it as "instructing" you to not feel anything. Feeling something is not the same as reacting to it. If you want to react to someone like that, it's better to do it in a way that tries to defuse their anger and hatred toward you. Beating someone up is never, ever going to make someone like you or think better of you.

While I understand the moral ground you are standing on, the reality is there are consequences to every action. This includes the person reacting to an insult or racial slur.

Though, your ideas are high-minded and I applaud them.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

What I find troubling is there appears to be talk of some kind of abstract code that seems to morally, though not legally, justify the actions taken.

What happened to Kimye here could very well happen to any of us. I will give you guys a 100% real example from my life.

My mother and I are of Chinese descent. She is 67 years old. She was walking down the street by herself one day, and two people followed her for a couple of blocks, hurling a bunch of racist language at her. She told me about it the next day.

Am I allowed to drive around that neighbourhood the next day, looking for those two? When I find them, can I jump out of my car and beat the **** out of them?

By the way, it was a couple, one man and one woman. Does that make a difference? Can I beat the **** out of one, but not the other? Can I beat the **** out of both of them?

In addition, the couple was black. Does that make a difference?

Tell me what this abstract code tells you about the proper course of action.

Sounds like an isolated case but that couple will eventually be taught a lesson by someone with nothing to lose.

and if they did I wouldn't sympathize for them at all.

I don't think you should be the person that teaches them that lesson because you probably have a promising future.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I'm not saying that! Holy heck, dude, you have an issue with reading comprehension.

My point is that everyone is offended by different things, but no one is more justified in resorting to violence over what was said than anyone else. Either everyone can kick the crap out of someone when they "offend" them or no one can.

I'm not saying your feelings are invalid, I'm saying that just because it offends you so much, doesn't mean that you have more of a right to resort to violence than someone else who is offended by something else.

Example:

Someone calls you the N-word and someone calls me a Nazi. We are both offended by what this person said to us. But, no one's offence is more valid than the other person. You don't have a right to beat that person up and neither do I.

Look I acknowledge most people shouldn't resort to violence but that isn't because no one deserves a butt whooping. It's because most victims shouldn't ruin their life with a police record.

But some people do deserve a butt whooping and when they finally get one I'm not going to feel sorry for them or say they didn't have it coming.

 

[Pink Ranger]

I don't think you should be the person that teaches them that lesson because you probably have a promising future.

You give me too much credit.

My rap album only has like a third of Kanye's sales, and I'm married to the least attractive Kardashian. t:

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Sometimes karma is ambiguous like a flat tire in the rain or a stomach flu.

Then other times it's a punch in the face from insulting the wrong person.

The universe has different ways of balancing these things out.

 

[charl_huntress]

What I find troubling is there appears to be talk of some kind of abstract code that seems to morally, though not legally, justify the actions taken.

It's not an abstract code. Insulting a person and not using a racial slur often leads to fights. It is almost a given insulting someone will not usually lead to a positive outcome.

Am I allowed to drive around that neighbourhood the next day, looking for those two? When I find them, can I jump out of my car and beat the **** out of them? By the way, it was a couple, one man and one woman. Does that make a difference? Can I beat the **** out of one, but not the other? Can I beat the **** out of both of them?

I have said before Kim going to get Kanye is what I find the most suspicious. It just doesn't feel right to me. Though if you had gone after those people, Pink, your reasoning for doing so would be understandable. I think that's a point many here seem to be missing. It's understandable to be righteously upset when someone you love has been disrespected. It's understandable to want to defend them.

In addition, the couple was black. Does that make a difference?

I keep seeing this twist the race game, and I'm wondering why. I think it's because some people are indirectly saying black people react worse than any other race when it comes to racial slurs? I'm not sure though...

Tell me what this abstract code tells you about the proper course of action.

Again...there is nothing abstract about this code. Insulting someone can get your ass beat. Like I said, politeness isn't the only thing keeping people polite.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

You give me too much credit.

My rap album only has like a third of Kanye's sales, and I'm married to the least attractive Kardashian. t:

That means you're related to Yeezus.

You're practically a religious deity.

 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

Racist got his Ass beat. I like it.

 

[Pink Ranger]

I keep seeing this twist the race game, and I'm wondering why. I think it's because some people are indirectly saying black people react worse than any other race when it comes to racial slurs? I'm not sure though...

The reason I brought that up is that I was sensing that the juxtaposition of race, gender, social class, etc., impacts the moral justification behind Kanye's actions. The race of the idiot racist troll who got his ass beat was definitely relevant enough to bring up.

 

[Pink Ranger]

That means you're related to Yeezus.

You're practically a religious deity.

I am, whatever it is you say I am.

 

[charl_huntress]

The reason I brought that up is that I was sensing that the juxtaposition of race, gender, social class, etc., impacts the moral justification behind Kanye's actions. The race of the idiot racist troll who got his ass beat was definitely relevant enough to bring up.

So I'll answer this question...with a question. Would anyone blame a Chinese man for beating up someone who called him a "ch*nk"? Would anyone blame a homosexual for beating up someone who called him/her "f*g/d*ke"? Would anyone blame a Jewish person for beating up someone who called them a "k*ke"?

People of any race react badly to racial slurs and/or insults. This is not limited to black people. So my question is would any of you defenders of civility be criticizing the behavior as strongly if the person defending themselves had been your race?

 

[regwec]

1. White people have the balls tell black people how they should feel/act towards a racial slur like nigg**
.

There seems to be confusion between the concepts of feeling upset and angry and attacking someone.

Is it seriously being argued that black people have less self control? That would be both racist and inaccurate, but it appears to be the insinuation behind comments which suggest that violence is justified by inevitability in these circumstances.

 

[regwec]

So I'll answer this question...with a question. Would anyone blame a Chinese man for beating up someone who called him a "ch*nk"? Would anyone blame a homosexual for beating up someone who called him/her "f*g/d*ke"? Would anyone blame a Jewish person for beating up someone who called them a "k*ke"?

People of any race react badly to racial slurs and/or insults. This is not limited to black people. So my question is would any of you defenders of civility be criticizing the behavior as strongly if the person defending themselves had been your race?

Yes. It alarms me that you would expect any other answer.

 

[Pink Ranger]

So I'll answer this question...with a question. Would anyone blame a Chinese man for beating up someone who called him a "ch*nk"? Would anyone blame a homosexual for beating up someone who called him/her "f*g/d*ke"? Would anyone blame a Jewish person for beating up someone who called them a "k*ke"?

People of any race react badly to racial slurs and/or insults. This is not limited to black people. So my question is would any of you defenders of civility be criticizing the behavior as strongly if the person defending themselves had been your race?

For the first two, since they impact me directly, honestly I would totally blame the attacker if they behaved as Kanye did. It is illegal and irresponsible, and possibly even sexist (instead of reversing races, reverse genders, and see how ridiculous the situation is then).

As a Chinese person, these things happen to me too: the worst that I do is respond with words in kind, seeing if I can incite them to take the first swing at me (after that, everything I do is legally defensible). So far nobody has taken me up on that, showing that racists are generally cowards.

 

[NickNitro]

There seems to be confusion between the concepts of feeling upset and angry and attacking someone.

But you agree though that these words bring ill feelings towards their victims. I am not saying he was right, but I'm also not saying he was 100% wrong either. People react differently to hate crimes and he chose to act this way. I've said earlier I hope he gets assault charges. My argument was with people who felt the need to jump on the morality train and say there shouldn't have been any feelings in the first place because its "just a word". And the fact he reacted with violence to just a word, he is 100% to blame. While they showed pity for the man he attacked. That's absolutely moronic and socially ignorant to me.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Because of me this is happening? Am I the one on the news? No, its the general population. Its your neighbor, your boyfriend, your girlfriend, your wife, your son. The KKK is still around, the Westboro Baptist Church is around, gangs are still around killing one another simply because they wear different colors.

Yes, because I landed on the planet earth only last week. Thank you for informing me of the status quo.

What are my sweeping statements?

The last post I quoted from you, for example.

That I feel he had the right to take physical action towards someone? I'm sorry I look soo barbaric and dim witted to you.

Dim-witted? Never said or even implied it. But you do advocate barbaric behavior.

Clearly because I support this act of violence means I don't sit on a higher plane of thinking and morality as you do. What kind of selective blindness is this?

Humans keep pets. Humans, who are omnivores, can consciously decide to become herbivores.

Evolved behavior tends toward preservation of sentient life and intellect over raw physical prowess. But we are a screwy species. Primitive urges still flare up, even though many of them are obsolete.

 

[TX85]

The racist fool was an idiot and deserved a punch to the face but I don't know about a beat down like that,I would have reacted simlar(not as excessive though)years ago but now I just don't give a damn what people think and not going to give the pleasure to haters who want to hurt people's feelings for them to feel good or something.

Somebody can call me a Mexican in a racist way right now and I'd just be like"You're damn right I am,Born&raised in the US with Mexican parts!!"

 

[charl_huntress]

Yes. It alarms me that you would expect any other answer.

Considering the reason I addressed the topic in the first place I'm alarmed by your answer.

For the first two, since they impact me directly, honestly I would totally blame the attacker if they behaved as Kanye did. It is illegal and irresponsible, and possibly even sexist (instead of reversing races, reverse genders, and see how ridiculous the situation is then).

I understand you blame them for attacking the person and feel there should be consequences for the violence, but I guess I'm trying to understand if you understand why they might have resorted to violence? If you can understand that then I don't see how you can sense any juxtaposition of race, gender, social class, etc., in this situation that is any different because Kanye is black.

As a Chinese person, these things happen to me too: the worst that I do is respond with words in kind, seeing if I can incite them to take the first swing at me (after that, everything I do is legally defensible). So far nobody has taken me up on that, showing that racists are generally cowards.

t: So you're not actually promoting non-violence, you just want to be absolved of hitting them first...lol. I get that.

 

[newbrando]

Oh, I was saying you shouldn't be offended to the point of violence by any word, but feel free to do so and let words have as much power over you as you want them to.

This is kind of like saying, you shouldn't be offended by someone spitting on you. Is it wrong to assault someone if they spit on you. Yes. Sometimes an altercation feels deeply personal though. And we view spitting on someone in some ways as worse than hitting them. That's how a lot of black people feel about the n-word. You can tell them, "well nobody hit you" but for many black people, they would see being assaulted as less of an insult than being called the n-word. *It's like that person spit on you. Tell people to not look at being spit on as insulting and see how easy it is to convince them that all they need to do is "not let it have power over them."

My mother and I are of Chinese descent. She is 67 years old. She was walking down the street by herself one day, and two people followed her for a couple of blocks, hurling a bunch of racist language at her. She told me about it the next day.


Am I allowed to drive around that neighbourhood the next day, looking for those two? When I find them, can I jump out of my car and beat the **** out of them?

I think what's missing from this story is the chorus. *What if you had a bunch of people saying, "So what your mom got called a slur? Somebody called me a wasp once and it was horrible and the exact same thing and I didn't even care." And then somebody else was like, "Well if you did do anything, you should have gone to jail, that's what happens a lot with your people, they do stupid things and wind up in jail." And someone else was like, "OMG, get over it." And on and on....


There's a lot to be said for knowing you have the compassion of your community and a shared understanding that people can at least give you the dignity of say, "Wow, that sucked. I'm sorry that happened to your family." When you never get that and people can't give you one minute to acknowledge that you were wronged, you get stuck in anger. It's not good or right. Minorities have a lot of hyper-tension over this stuff. It would be nice if people could just tryyyy to understand, cause sometimes that's all you need is somebody to say, "It was wrong." But they get too defensive and they won't...

 

[Pink Ranger]

I understand you blame them for attacking the person and feel there should be consequences for the violence, but I guess I'm trying to understand if you understand why they might have resorted to violence? If you can understand that then I don't see how you can sense any juxtaposition of race, gender, social class, etc., in this situation that is any different because Kanye is black.

The juxtaposition of race and gender comes into play in two ways. You assume I'm only talking about Kanye. Not true. I am also talking about the racist as well. Would the outcome be different if the racist was a young white girl? An old Chinese man? A latino drag queen?

For what it's worth, I fully believe that if an 80-year old white lady said that to Kim, he'd hunt her down and punch her in the face 30 times too, because Kanye is an egalitarian man of principle but the juxtaposition ALSO comes into play when WE react and assign moral blameworthiness to his actions.

For instance, let's reverse genders. A white guy (or Persian guy, whatever) is married to a black woman. When she's not around, another white guy goes up to the white husband and calls him the same word. Equally applicable, as bad as it is.

So the white husband runs to his black wife and says "that guy who walked into the building there said this horrible thing to me, what are you going to do about it?"

What would the black woman's "understandable" reaction be to this?