Karate Kid (Remake)

[DorkyFresh]

Dorkyfresh - Good to see another martial artist here in the thread. I'll say without any reservation that the name does not bother me, since Karate Kid has never had karate in it. Sure to the layman it looks all the same, but there's a huge gulf between arts that only martial artists can see.

knowing that the original Karate Kid was using Tang Soo Do bothers me a tad, but this was during an era where martial arts was fairly new to Hollywood...and even newer to the general public in America. also, i was too young to understand the complexities and differences between each discipline. this is also a movie that's long been said and done...however, this rendition is recent and still has a chance to right it's 'wrong'. we currently live in a world where Hollywood has been exposed to enough martial arts to know that there is a difference in each discipline and should act appropriately to each one (Kung Fu Panda wasn't called 'Karate Panda'). i understand your logic to a degree, but just because a crime was committed in the past doesn't mean it should continue to be committed again. imo, when one sees injustice then that person should denounced and reject acts of similarity, and ideally...they would speak out against it.

btw, just out of curiosity (not to be held against you at all) which discipline do you practice?

 

[GhostPoet]

I'll be seeing this.....mainly because my wife is the biggest fan ever of the original...she wants to see a reboot now. :P

 

[ChickenScratch]

out of curiosity (not to be held against you at all) which discipline do you practice?

I actually train/ed in several styles. I grew up doing karate and all my friends are either other martial artists or guitarists (my other passion). I never expect that people "should" know anything. I train, I teach and I leave the arguing to others.

Seido Karate, 3rd Dan - My first style, I started at 5 because I loved Batman. Now I teach part time at my Sensei's dojo.
Judo, 1st Dan - Taught by my Seido sensei.
Kyokushin Karate, 1st Dan - Started after college and am still with it, though it's not my main style. I only go 2 nights a week with this one.
Choi Kwang Do, Il Dan - Korean style, started at 15 and stopped when I moved and there was not a branch where I lived.
Genbukan Ninjutsu, 1st Kyu - I'm a member of the organization for the purposes of attending seminars and events only open to members.

You talk about how Hollywood has been using martial arts for so long they should know better. No, as I said many times, I've not seen a ninja movie that uses ninjutsu. Heck, half the time what they pass off as Kung Fu is actually Hapkido with a few Wushu flourishes. Like Jackie Chan who's not trained in Kung Fu but actually holds rank in Hapkido under master Jin Pal Kim.

With the original Karate Kid, it's not as if they could have hid the fact that it's not karate. Pat Johnson is the head of the National Tang Soo Do Congress. Besides, as I stated before, TSD looks a damn sight different than any of the 4 original Okinawan styles.

 

[DorkyFresh]

I actually train/ed in several styles. I grew up doing karate and all my friends are either other martial artists or guitarists (my other passion). I never expect that people "should" know anything. I train, I teach and I leave the arguing to others.

Seido Karate, 3rd Dan - My first style, I started at 5 because I loved Batman. Now I teach part time at my Sensei's dojo.
Judo, 1st Dan - Taught by my Seido sensei.
Kyokushin Karate, 1st Dan - Started after college and am still with it, though it's not my main style. I only go 2 nights a week with this one.
Choi Kwang Do, Il Dan - Korean style, started at 15 and stopped when I moved and there was not a branch where I lived.
Genbukan Ninjutsu, 1st Kyu - I'm a member of the organization for the purposes of attending seminars and events only open to members.

wow, lifetime martial artist...very impressive! i wish i had started young, but i'm still glad i started at all. you're obviously more experienced than i, so i commend you on your commitment. major props regardless of what styles you've learned.

You talk about how Hollywood has been using martial arts for so long they should know better. No, as I said many times, I've not seen a ninja movie that uses ninjutsu. Heck, half the time what they pass off as Kung Fu is actually Hapkido with a few Wushu flourishes. Like Jackie Chan who's not trained in Kung Fu but actually holds rank in Hapkido under master Jin Pal Kim.

i understand that Hollywood often uses other styles when saying they're actually using (random discipline). i also realize that many martial arts films do this as well, for instance, Jackie Chan utilized non-kung fu moves when creating a more dynamic Drunken Monkey style for Drunken Master 2. however, most of these are stylized films that give play room for utilizing elements of other disciplines when creating the choreography and most of them don't actually have the discipline's name in the title of the movie. even if they do, most of the time the choreography in the film visually reflects that disciplines' style even if exaggerated or inaccurate.

however, this is a rare case where the film seems to be staying fairly true to the discipline they say they are using (Kung Fu) but then replace the name of said style with an EXTREMELY different style just for the sake of profit...and not creativity. my main gripe is not that they're using a different style to portray another one. to me that's fine as long as it's for creative purposes...however, it's quite clear to most people that, in this particular case, the decision was made out of greed in order to make a bigger profit. i understand, as a visual artist, that some artistic license is necessary, but imo this is unacceptable. i know many people don't feel this way, but as a practitioner of one of the specific disciplines involved with this film, i don't approve. call me stubborn or prideful if you like...but it is what it is and i will continue to speak out against the title of the film as long as the topic keeps being brought up.

 

[ChickenScratch]

wow, lifetime martial artist...very impressive! i wish i had started young, but i'm still glad i started at all. you're obviously more experienced than i, so i commend you on your commitment. major props regardless of what styles you've learned.


i understand that Hollywood often uses other styles when saying they're actually using (random discipline). i also realize that many martial arts films do this as well, for instance, Jackie Chan utilized non-kung fu moves when creating a more dynamic Drunken Monkey style for Drunken Master 2. however, most of these are stylized films that give play room for utilizing elements of other disciplines when creating the choreography and most of them don't actually have the discipline's name in the title of the movie. even if they do, most of the time the choreography in the film visually reflects that disciplines' style even if exaggerated or inaccurate.

however, this is a rare case where the film seems to be staying fairly true to the discipline they say they are using (Kung Fu) but then replace the name of said style with an EXTREMELY different style just for the sake of profit...and not creativity. my main gripe is not that they're using a different style to portray another one. to me that's fine as long as it's for creative purposes...however, it's quite clear to most people that, in this particular case, the decision was made out of greed in order to make a bigger profit. i understand, as a visual artist, that some artistic license is necessary, but imo this is unacceptable. i know many people don't feel this way, but as a practitioner of one of the specific disciplines involved with this film, i don't approve. call me stubborn or prideful if you like...but it is what it is and i will continue to speak out against the title of the film as long as the topic keeps being brought up.

Regardless of what styles I've learned? Seems like someone's not a fan of JMA or KMA to me. Personally I've never liked CMA at all, never appealed to me, so lots of times when I'm watching a "Kung fu" movie and I see someone doing Hapkido I chuckle a bit.

As for the name thing, it's a marketing move most like. It makes sense if they are gonna be making fun of the kid in the movie using "karate kid" as an insult. Personally, my sister and I really don't care about the labeling thing, we know what we've learned and that can be quite different from the movie which is meant to be purely entertainment by casting the widest net there is.

By the way, if you watch Karate Kid and Karate Kid 3, Pat Johnson is actually in the movie, he plays the referee at the tournaments.

 

[Evelisse]

Movie needs some William Zabka as the USA commentator covering this movies tournament at the end.

 

[Hellion]

I actually train/ed in several styles. I grew up doing karate and all my friends are either other martial artists or guitarists (my other passion). I never expect that people "should" know anything. I train, I teach and I leave the arguing to others.

Seido Karate, 3rd Dan - My first style, I started at 5 because I loved Batman. Now I teach part time at my Sensei's dojo.
Judo, 1st Dan - Taught by my Seido sensei.
Kyokushin Karate, 1st Dan - Started after college and am still with it, though it's not my main style. I only go 2 nights a week with this one.
Choi Kwang Do, Il Dan - Korean style, started at 15 and stopped when I moved and there was not a branch where I lived.
Genbukan Ninjutsu, 1st Kyu - I'm a member of the organization for the purposes of attending seminars and events only open to members.

You talk about how Hollywood has been using martial arts for so long they should know better. No, as I said many times, I've not seen a ninja movie that uses ninjutsu. Heck, half the time what they pass off as Kung Fu is actually Hapkido with a few Wushu flourishes. Like Jackie Chan who's not trained in Kung Fu but actually holds rank in Hapkido under master Jin Pal Kim.

With the original Karate Kid, it's not as if they could have hid the fact that it's not karate. Pat Johnson is the head of the National Tang Soo Do Congress. Besides, as I stated before, TSD looks a damn sight different than any of the 4 original Okinawan styles.

I have much respect for you and your dedication, as a former martial artist myself. Myself, I trained in Shorin-ryu Shorinkan Okinawan Karate from the early 90's till about maybe 1999-2000, so for about maybe 7 years, I developed a back condition which eventually required surgery, which forced me to quit......I reached 1st Black Belt in fall 97...

Again much respect for you...

 

[GL1]

making decisions solely for the sake of making money isn't ALWAYS logical or smart.

... i honestly think it looks like a decent movie and if it were actually called 'the Kung Fu Kid' then i'd probably be there on opening day. hell, if the conditions were different (for example: he were being taught Karate to combat the domination of Kung Fu in his territory) then i probably would still see it in theaters...however, i find that the title is a huge injustice to the world of Kung Fu as it's obviously a decision made more out of greed than creativity. for that reason, i will not be seeing this in theaters.

also, calling it 'the Kung Fu Kid' would've given this movie/franchise more of a unique identity and could've possibly distanced itself from being clumped into the fad of remakes that've been plaguing the industry of late.

People who don't know anything about it will go see it on name recognition alone. That would not be true for the Kung Fu Kid. It's just that simple. We can call it greed, but calling it stupid is blind, imho. In short: I just do not see the injustice. You may need to spell it out for me.

being acquainted with something is one thing, actually PRACTICING the art is another. as with ANYTHING there is a certain pride that comes with whatever one is practicing. i try to be humble when i can, but i also try to call out injustice and imo this is a big injustice despite the plot trick. Jackie Chan said he has always known it to be called 'Kung Fu Kid' and that's what they're calling it in China, so aside from trying to leach off name recognition, i think calling it 'the Karate Kid' is unjustified.

I am becoming acquainted by training. They are not different to me. I haven't been back for a few months though. I'm need to track down Sifu and start up again.

well, i'm not a master. i'd like to get there, but i have no delusions of what i am and what i am not...and i'm not a master, so i can get angry when the movie industry makes a decision that will end up confusing many people pertaining a practice that i'm passionately involved in.

you're right when you said that naming it 'the Karate Kid' is not a threat to me, personally, and it's not even a THREAT to the martial arts world...but again, it will confuse many people who are unfamiliar to martial arts.

Will it? I'd bet money that the movie will clearly establish the difference between Kung Fu and Karate. How could it not if Karate is thrown about in a perjorative manner? It sounds like people will be educated. I don't know of any other mainstream film that pits two different arts against each other by name.

well Kung Fu isn't always about being at peace with ones self or the stereotypical martial arts rhetoric. in my view, the point of Kung Fu is to have a goal in all aspects of your life and to work hard to attain those goals, but that doesn't necessarily mean not letting anything get under your skin....and again, if you're not actually practicing Kung Fu or even martial arts, then i find it offensive that you're trying to tell me that i'm missing the point of why i'm practicing Kung Fu.

To me, all the hard work and discipline which martial arts engenders works to peace within one's self. Knowing that you can defend yourself, that you have a valuable skill, that you can reach your goals, all that brings peace of mind and self-security, and it is the chief benefit I gained from Tae Kwon Do as a teen, and from Kung Fu nowadays. Goals are nice, but without the peace that comes with achieving them, they are nothing, in my view.

again, i'm not a master so i'm not offended....but if i spent my entire life spreading the word of Kung Fu only to have a piece of entertainment come and somewhat undermine my entire life's work then you're damn right i'd be offended! any logical person would be.

You said you'd be more offended if you were a master. That means you're offended, or I fail at Engrish.

But the above the basis of our disagreement. I don't think that masters 'spread the word of kung fu.' I don't think that public awareness is a goal instrinsic to the martial arts, and I don't think anything that vaguely confuses public awareness has any negative effect on the work of a master.

with all due respect, most everyone thinks they have an 'unbiased' or 'balanced' perspective...but most times it's never the case. that being said, i never once thought that the movie is trying to pass off Kung Fu as being called Karate. my gripe is they are too greedy to appropriately name the film after the discipline that they're using in the movie.

I don't agree on your definition of 'appropriate' name for the film. Was Silence of the Lambs was named in appropriately, because it wasn't about sheep? It is not inappropriate, any more than Die Hard or Steel Magnolias. It is opportunistic, it perhaps is counter-intuitive. We can call it greedy, but I don't think anyone's showed me anything 'wrong' with it.

I don't believe that practicing martial arts makes me more credible in this discussion... I'm not very good honestly, but if that's what you need to understand to address my points without feeling insulted, there it is.

 

[kaypain]

well from reading the synopis of the movie it sort of make sense. Maybe it's a Kartate vs Kung Fu movie. He already knows Karate but basically gets his assed kick because the bully knew some killer Kung Fu so now the "Karate Kid" wants to learn Kung Fu, I don't know...

 

[ChickenScratch]

I have much respect for you and your dedication, as a former martial artist myself. Myself, I trained in Shorin-ryu Shorinkan Okinawan Karate from the early 90's till about maybe 1999-2000, so for about maybe 7 years, I developed a back condition which eventually required surgery, which forced me to quit......I reached 1st Black Belt in fall 97...
Again much respect for you...

Thanks a lot. It's not really a dedication thing, it's more of a started at 5 so I would not know what to do with myself here at 29 without it.

 

[DorkyFresh]

Regardless of what styles I've learned? Seems like someone's not a fan of JMA or KMA to me. Personally I've never liked CMA at all, never appealed to me, so lots of times when I'm watching a "Kung fu" movie and I see someone doing Hapkido I chuckle a bit.

no offense meant at all. i just have a huge respect for ANY lifetime martial artist...i just threw in "regardless of your discipline" because i don't care what discipline committed martial artists practice. they still get respect from me.

By the way, if you watch Karate Kid and Karate Kid 3, Pat Johnson is actually in the movie, he plays the referee at the tournaments.

oh? i hadn't noticed that before! i'll have to go back and check that out.

People who don't know anything about it will go see it on name recognition alone. That would not be true for the Kung Fu Kid. It's just that simple. We can call it greed, but calling it stupid is blind, imho. In short: I just do not see the injustice. You may need to spell it out for me.

i kind have already have within the last page or so. if you can't see it my way by now then you probably won't...just like i'll never be okay with them calling it what they are.

I am becoming acquainted by training. They are not different to me. I haven't been back for a few months though. I'm need to track down Sifu and start up again.

well, i'm genuinely glad that you're interested in martial arts and have a desire to learn more. hope you're able to start again, so good luck with that.

Will it? I'd bet money that the movie will clearly establish the difference between Kung Fu and Karate. How could it not if Karate is thrown about in a perjorative manner? It sounds like people will be educated. I don't know of any other mainstream film that pits two different arts against each other by name.

i'm sure the film will establish the difference between the 2 arts, but that doesn't necessarily mean that every person who watches the film will grab and retain that info. you can guarantee that they'll establish a clear difference between the 2 arts just like i can guarantee that there will be people who will forget those differences a week later and end up saying "they were doing karate or whatever" solely based on the title.

To me, all the hard work and discipline which martial arts engenders works to peace within one's self. Knowing that you can defend yourself, that you have a valuable skill, that you can reach your goals, all that brings peace of mind and self-security, and it is the chief benefit I gained from Tae Kwon Do as a teen, and from Kung Fu nowadays. Goals are nice, but without the peace that comes with achieving them, they are nothing, in my view.

alright, now we're just getting preachy. i understand where you're coming from, but i don't live in a world where being peaceful with everything is appropriate and i don't know many people who do. in my world, that's being called "passive". there are things that i'm at peace with, but there are also things that i fight with. this is one of those things that i find worth fighting even if it falls on deaf ears/blind eyes.

You said you'd be more offended if you were a master. That means you're offended, or I fail at Engrish.

well...i don't want to put it that way, but if i had to chose it'd be the latter. i'm bothered by the movie's title but i'm not offended since i don't have a personal problem with it. i said IF i were a master i'd be offended since i'd be training and teaching something that's being somewhat undermined by the title, but since i'm NOT a master or even an instructor yet...i'm not offended.

I don't agree on your definition of 'appropriate' name for the film. Was Silence of the Lambs was named in appropriately, because it wasn't about sheep? It is not inappropriate, any more than Die Hard or Steel Magnolias. It is opportunistic, it perhaps is counter-intuitive. We can call it greedy, but I don't think anyone's showed me anything 'wrong' with it.

i was wondering how long it was gonna take for someone to throw out some extreme examples of abstractly named movie titles. those titles you mentioned were decisions made out of creativity and because of that, are appropriately named. however, it's quite clear to most people that "the Karate Kid" is leaching off name recognition because of greed. there is nothing "wrong" with it, but i find it inappropriate despite the plot trick they're throwing in just to keep the name recognition.

I don't believe that practicing martial arts makes me more credible in this discussion... I'm not very good honestly, but if that's what you need to understand to address my points without feeling insulted, there it is.

i never said you need to know martial arts to be credible in the discussion and i don't feel insulted when talking about the title. if there's anything i've felt insulted by (i haven't felt that way btw), it's when it feels like you're trying to preach to me how i should go about practicing my art just for the sake of debating over the title. it's almost like telling someone how to practice their own religion.

 

[ChickenScratch]

You may recognize him if you see his picture.

Here's his page on the Tang Soo Do website. All his credits are not listed, the last movie I know he choreographed was Punisher WZ. http://www.tangsoodoworld.com/whos_who_profiles/pat_johnson.htm

Here's an older article on him, it includes a picture of him in the Ninja Turtles Costume as well as pictures from Karate Kid and a couple others. http://books.google.com/books?id=U9cDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA18#v=onepage&q=&f=false

 

[Cracker Jack]

So Jack-et off is the new wax off? t:

 

[GL1]

i'm sure the film will establish the difference between the 2 arts, but that doesn't necessarily mean that every person who watches the film will grab and retain that info. you can guarantee that they'll establish a clear difference between the 2 arts just like i can guarantee that there will be people who will forget those differences a week later and end up saying "they were doing karate or whatever" solely based on the title.

This is an example of what I'm looking for. A scenario where there is an actual problem created with an actual negative impact.

alright, now we're just getting preachy. i understand where you're coming from, but i don't live in a world where being peaceful with everything is appropriate and i don't know many people who do. in my world, that's being called "passive". there are things that i'm at peace with, but there are also things that i fight with. this is one of those things that i find worth fighting even if it falls on deaf ears/blind eyes...

...well...i don't want to put it that way, but if i had to chose it'd be the latter. i'm bothered by the movie's title but i'm not offended since i don't have a personal problem with it. i said IF i were a master i'd be offended since i'd be training and teaching something that's being somewhat undermined by the title, but since i'm NOT a master or even an instructor yet...i'm not offended.

The movie still educates and highlights Kung Fu in the mainstream, and educates everyone - who cares enough to get the basic plot - the difference between it and Karate. I can see how calling it Kung Fu Kid may help enlighten the few who are interested, but literally not bright enough to grasp basic plot concepts, but for the vast majority, the title does not undermine the Kung Fu message in the film. Even if it did, I don't get the connection of how that undermines Kung Fu, or the martial arts movement in the western world. All interested people will know, uninterested people will still not know, or will forget, since they never would have cared or known anyway.

I can understand disagreement with the title. But boycotting the only mainstream movie (ever?) to differentiate Kung Fu and Karate on the basis that the title of the movie doesn't? I can't support that logically.

i was wondering how long it was gonna take for someone to throw out some extreme examples of abstractly named movie titles. those titles you mentioned were decisions made out of creativity and because of that, are appropriately named. however, it's quite clear to most people that "the Karate Kid" is leaching off name recognition because of greed. there is nothing "wrong" with it, but i find it inappropriate despite the plot trick they're throwing in just to keep the name recognition.

So the standard you are using, that I do not agree with, is that creatively named movies are named appropriately, but movies named solely for name recognition/greed/leeching are inappropriately named? I'll go ahead and agree to disagree there.

i never said you need to know martial arts to be credible in the discussion and i don't feel insulted when talking about the title. if there's anything i've felt insulted by (i haven't felt that way btw), it's when it feels like you're trying to preach to me how i should go about practicing my art just for the sake of debating over the title. it's almost like telling someone how to practice their own religion.

Well, maybe I'm just a jerk, but if someone is experiencing difficulty that is supposed to be addressed by their faith- say a Buddhist who feels like there will be no end to their suffering , or a Christian who feels they are alone and have no one to talk to , I have no qualms saying I think that they have missed the point of their religion.

 

[samsnee]

The new trailer was in front of Alice in Wonderland and people actually clapped, CLAPPED!, after they showed it. I died a little inside.

 

[RavenLF]

I would be ok with a remake (not that it needs it) but I watched the Preview for it and I don't think it going to be good at all. making the main character some little kid just makes me not want to watch it.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I believe there is less you can do with a child than a teenager which automatically makes this film weaker. However its just a star vehicle for Will Smith's son.

 

[A&W]

I thought this was going to be stupid untill I saw the preview. Now I can't wait to see it.

 

[GL1]

I believe there is less you can do with a child than a teenager which automatically makes this film weaker. However its just a star vehicle for Will Smith's son.

Less in terms of violence yes, however there are things you can do story-wise with a child that you cannot do with an older adolescent.

Most good movies are 'just star vehicles'

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Not only violence, but also romance wise among other teenage problems. One of the reasons the original Karate flourished was because of the romance subplot.

 

[MadVillainy]

Unfortunately, we can't review the movie, but we can say that this is not really a remake as much as taking the premise and themes from the original, relocating the story to China, and creating a version that can appeal to modern audiences regardless of age or gender. It has all the warmth and humor of the original movie, but it also has a hipness that makes it feel very much of the moment. Most of that comes in the form of Jaden Smith, who has all of the charm and personality of his father, whether cracking jokes or taking part in the film's emotional dramatic moments. In fact, there were just as many tearful moments as Toy Story 3, and the chemistry between him and Jackie Chan is on par with the Ralph Macchio-Pat Morita relationship in the original movie. Taraji P. Henson is terrific as Jaden's mother, and there are a lot of strong performances from the Asian actors, including the actress who plays Jaden's love interest, a really adorable Chinese girl. It does take some time to get to the action, but the kung fu is very well done, and you can definitely see the influence of Jackie Chan and his stunt team on the martial arts. Personally, we can't wait to see the movie again and talk about it more at length, but it was a thoroughly enjoyable and entertaining experience to see what they've done with the '80s classic. We can certainly see this movie doing for modern audiences what that movie did in its day.

Also, we'll gladly go on record that Sony has a serious Oscar contender on their hands in many categories with The Karate Kid, including Best Picture, directing, writing, cinematography, James Horner's score, and yes, even Jackie Chan in the supporting actor category! You can take that to the bank, but you might have to stand in line behind Sony, because they're going to make a lot of money when The Karate Kid becomes the sleeper hit of the summer once it opens on June 11. (Sometime in April, we'll have the Weekend Warrior's Summer Box Office Preview and will talk more about the film's box office potential then.)

After the film, people streamed out of the theater and received a cool sack with the logo and a warm-up jacke, which you can see in the pictures below. There's still one-and-a-half more days of ShoWest, but those who attended the Sony presentation and the movie will not forget it anytime soon.'

I don't know what to believe

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/showestnews.php?id=64310

 

[bunk]

At least Horner is doing the score. They have that going for them.

 

[samsnee]

Best picture nom? Yeah right. I don't doubt this movie will be a big hit because it seems all the kids think it looks cool, but no way it gets nominated for any best picture or acting awards.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I don't know what to believe

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/showestnews.php?id=64310

Wow . I wasn't expect a "review" to be so positive for this movie. If this film ends up terrible he is going so stupid, especially after suggesting this may get Oscar Nominations.

 

[Bunker]

Best Picture?

uhhh