Key Witness to WTC7 9/11 Mysteriously Dies

[Shedhut]

Again, are you a physicist? Because there are other physicists who say that it is perfectly plausible for a fire to not only burn as long as it did, but keep the same intensity for some time after the initial impact.



Do you have this so-called footage? Do you even KNOW it exists? How do you know that one of those crackpot conspiracy theorists didn't just make up the "missing gas station footage" to play into the spooooooky government conspiracy they made up?

Again, unless you have a video which PROVES that a bomb went off at the Pentagon, you have no merit to your argument. There are HUNDREDS of witnesses who were inside the Pentagon at the time the plane crashed into the building, plus DOZENS of witnesses [including someone I know personally] who SAW a plane hit the building. I trust their stories more than I trust the stories of some computer geek radical who has locked himself inside his parents' basement and spends all of his time hunched over his computer making up mindless dribble about the U.S. government.

[YT]BmP2Vy8K0i0&feature=related[/YT]

Also supposedly noone was working in that wing of the ptg the day it happened.

the first (and acctually the only) well worked out documentary I saw regarding 9/11 was in '03 and was made by Gerhard Wisnewski and Willy Brunner, two acclaimed filmmakers who are far away from any pot/crackhead-mentality which the makers of lose change are often attacked for.

The film was only screened once in 03 and despite the viewers demand never again.

Wisnewski: "2 1/2 years after the WDR(tv-station) locked away their own 9/11-film and refuses to hire the people who worked on the first critical observation regarding the attacks worldwide, the topic is picked up by the USA themselves..."


The film can be watched here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3505712702687232327
(the subtitles suffer from bad interpretation, sorry)

Not going into whether I believe Conspiracists or the Government are telling the truth, I simply think it's wrong to dismiss the theorys only by suggesting they were brought up by pot smoking teenagers with to much time on their hands.

 

[The Apocalypse]

I call *drum roll*....

CONSPIRACY!

 

[Hotwire]

While I don't personally believe that the government blew up anything that day, I do believe that they knew what was going to happen, and let it happen. Kind of like what people speculated about FDR and Pearl Harbor.

 

[The Senator]

Why do people keep going on about the hijackers and the planes, this wasn't one of those towers that the planes hit. I think some should rewatch the video.

No. DUH.

On August 21, 2008, NIST released its draft report on the causes of the collapse of 7 World Trade Center, beginning a period for public comments.[32] In its investigation, NIST utilized ANSYS to model events leading up to collapse initiation and LS-DYNA models to simulate the global response to the initiating events.[44] NIST determined that diesel fuel did not play an important role, nor did the structural damage from the collapse of the twin towers. But the lack of water to fight the fire was an important factor. The fires burned out of control during the afternoon, including on floor 13, where a critical interior column buckled. With the buckling of that column, adjacent columns also failed along with the floor structure above. This triggered a vertical progression of floor failures to the roof. The collapse then progressed east-to-west across the structure, and ultimately the entire structure collapsed. The fires, fueled by office contents, along with the lack of water, were the key reasons for the collapse

an initial failure in a critical column occurred below the 13th floor, caused by damage from fire and/or debris from the collapse of the two main towers. The collapse progressed vertically up to the east mechanical penthouse. The interior structure was unable to handle the redistributed load, resulting in horizontal progression of the failure across lower floors, particularly the 5th to 7th floors. This resulted in "a disproportionate collapse of the entire structure

Do you not understand this? How hard is it for you to realize that the Twin Towers were pretty tall structures, and that when the North Tower collapsed, the debris from that building collided with the WTC7 building and ignited a fire in the process? A large fire, which burned throughout the day and deteriorated an interior support column, causing the structure to collapse?

A bomb would NOT have been able to do such damage UNLESS it was large enough for us to see the explosion. PHYSICS [key concept; you may want to learn about it] says that NO explosion would have been large enough to destroy the interior column had the bomb blast been reserved SOLELY to the interior of the building. We would have SEEN the explosion from that bomb had one gone off.

Is that clear? Am I making ANY sense to you?

Un-bookmark those conspiracy theorists websites and start LEARNING about what REALLY happened that day, instead of what some crackpot radical *wishes* would have happened.

 

[Cmill216]

:facepalm the conspiracy theory

 

[The Senator]

[YT]BmP2Vy8K0i0&feature=related[/YT]

Also supposedly noone was working in that wing of the ptg the day it happened.

the first (and acctually the only) well worked out documentary I saw regarding 9/11 was in '03 and was made by Gerhard Wisnewski and Willy Brunner, two acclaimed filmmakers who are far away from any pot/crackhead-mentality which the makers of lose change are often attacked for.

The film was only screened once in 03 and despite the viewers demand never again.

Wisnewski: "2 1/2 years after the WDR(tv-station) locked away their own 9/11-film and refuses to hire the people who worked on the first critical observation regarding the attacks worldwide, the topic is picked up by the USA themselves..."


The film can be watched here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3505712702687232327
(the subtitles suffer from bad interpretation, sorry)

Not going into whether I believe Conspiracists or the Government are telling the truth, I simply think it's wrong to dismiss the theorys only by suggesting they were brought up by pot smoking teenagers with to much time on their hands.

There WERE people working in that wing of the Pentagon that day-- 125 employees were killed upon impact.

As for the crash that the video addresses... nice try, but the plane hit the Pentagon at the first floor level, and the wings were rotated when the attack occurred because the plane hit several lamp posts in a nearby parking lot shortly before the crash.

At the time of the attacks, approximately 18,000 people worked in the Pentagon, which was 4,000 fewer than before renovations began in 1998. The section of the Pentagon, which had recently been renovated at a cost of $250 million, housed the Naval Command Center and other Pentagon offices, as well as some unoccupied offices. The crash and subsequent fire penetrated three outer ring sections of the western side. The outermost ring section was largely destroyed, and a large section collapsed. One hundred twenty-five people in the Pentagon died from the attack.

Flight 77, flying at 530 miles per hour (853 km/h), crashed into the western side of the Pentagon in Arlington County, Virginia, just south of Washington, D.C. at 09:37:44, killing all 53 passengers, 5 hijackers, and 6 crew. It clipped several street lampposts and the right wing hit a portable generator before impacting the Pentagon wall. The flight hit the Pentagon at the first-floor level. As it crashed, the plane was rolled slightly to the left, with the right wing elevated. When the plane impacted, the front part of the fuselage disintegrated, while the mid and tail sections moved for another fraction of a second, with tail section debris pieces ending furthest into the building. In all, the plane took eight-tenths of a second to fully penetrate 310 feet (94 m) into the three outermost rings and unleashed a fireball that rose 200 feet (61 m) above the building.

In all, there were 189 casualties at the Pentagon, including 125 in the Pentagon and 64 on board Flight 77. Barbara Olson was en route to a taping of Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher. A group of children, chaperons, and National Geographic Society staff members were also onboard, embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California. The fatalities at the Pentagon included 55 military personnel and 70 civilians. Of those 125 killed, 92 were on the first floor, 31 were on the second floor, and two were on the third. The Army suffered 75 casualties—far more than any other branch. Another 106 injured were treated at area hospitals. Lieutenant General Timothy Maude, an Army Deputy Chief of Staff, was the highest ranking military officer killed at the Pentagon.

So, yes, I would say that the theories relayed in that video are the work of crackpot radicals who have nothing better to do with their time except scapegoat the United States government for all the problems in the world.

 

[WompuM]

 

[huskerwebhead]

[YT]BmP2Vy8K0i0&feature=related[/YT]

Also supposedly noone was working in that wing of the ptg the day it happened.

the first (and acctually the only) well worked out documentary I saw regarding 9/11 was in '03 and was made by Gerhard Wisnewski and Willy Brunner, two acclaimed filmmakers who are far away from any pot/crackhead-mentality which the makers of lose change are often attacked for.

The film was only screened once in 03 and despite the viewers demand never again.

Wisnewski: "2 1/2 years after the WDR(tv-station) locked away their own 9/11-film and refuses to hire the people who worked on the first critical observation regarding the attacks worldwide, the topic is picked up by the USA themselves..."


The film can be watched here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3505712702687232327
(the subtitles suffer from bad interpretation, sorry)

Not going into whether I believe Conspiracists or the Government are telling the truth, I simply think it's wrong to dismiss the theorys only by suggesting they were brought up by pot smoking teenagers with to much time on their hands.

The conspiracy theorists can flap their gums about the Pentagon plane all they want. They consistently ignore the witnesses that were local when it happened, I assume simply because it doesn't line up with their conspiracy. My brother and one of his friends were actually there when it hit and saw the plane clear as day. His friend actually still has problems (mentally) from the whole scene that day that he's fighting with to this day. I infinitely trust my brother over any of these so-called experts.

 

[Rando]

Sure, i will shift the blame off of me, but at least I am not like Ash and think obama is a muslim extremist.

 

[Doomed_hero]

It is a trait of are country that anytime a country has a major tragedy, there just has to be a huge conspiracy. From Lincoln and JFK to Pearl Harbor and 9/11. It is imo wrong of us to marginilize the deaths of these people in a campaign against any party without hard proven evidence. You wanna go on a rant about how wrong the goverment is , cause 9/11 has been used by the republicans top furthur ther own goals in the world. But they did not plan it, just manipulated it, added facts, and used it in there propaganda of fear. But this was all after it happen. Bush does have crimes to answer for, but there the crimes he did after 9/11 while using the death of all those innocence to push his own agenda. I would rather focus on that then another crazy conspiracy

 

[TNC9852002]

The janitor isn't credible because he is a JANITOR. Do you not understand that?

First, you disprove some janitor because....all janitors aren't credible...for some reason and then you disprove this guy as if he's on the exact same level. What reason do you have to not believe this guy or to believe he would be lying?

There were DOZENS, if not HUNDREDS, of other witnesses who were INSIDE of the World Trade Center who do not have similar stories to this man. They all relay the same story, that they heard ONE loud explosion, and later learned that a plane had hit the buildings.

That's for a separate discussion...

Not to mention the physicists and architects who have done their own investigations and can VERIFY that it was indeed possible, and most likely, that the Twin Towers collapsed because the jet fuel, upon impact, was so hot it melted the support beams in the building.

Well yeah. But there are many other experts, engineers, and physicists that feel that the heat may not have been sufficient.

So, I take the reports of the SURVIVORS of the attacks, as well as the numerous EXPERTS who have researched what happened that day, over the words of some janitor, a few ultra-left wingnuts with pre-existing agendas against the U.S. government, and ONE man who for all we know could be making this **** up to bolster his own reputation.

Well, I'm not speaking for anyone other than Mr. Jennings. I have no reason to not believe this man, but for some reason, you do. Hmmmm. No evidence to back that up?

Not to mention, it isn't physically impossible for the WTC7 site to collapse the way it did, as highlighted in my above post.

Yep. I've seen the videos that show that it was indeed possible. I'm not denying that. I'm just saying that there is a lot more evidence pointing to something other than what's been officially reported by the government.

So, what next? What else has the U.S. government concocted to drive fear into our hearts? Are we not really fighting in Iraq? Is it just one big movie, being filmed by a government-hired film crew and cheap actors in military garb?

...No one's talking about Iraq.

Did we fake the moon landing?

We're not talking about that either, but I'm sure that a significant number of the American people believe that the moon landing might've been staged. Even I'm a little skeptical. And no, these significant number of Americans aren't all janitors.

Is there a hangar in Nevada filled with alien corpses and flying saucers?

Why don't you go and see for yourself?

Did Ronald Reagan invent AIDS to kill all the homosexuals?

Oh boy.

And you're a physicist? Have you been hired by an independent contracting group to actually do a study on the WTC7 site, to discover what really went down?

I mean, you have-- -- seen pictures?

Well color me impressed, because it's not like any of us can't do a Google image search on the topic and come to our own conclusions.

"Hey, on first glance, it looks like a giant radioactive monster destroyed the WTC7 site!"

"You know, I wonder if the Stay-puft Marshmallow Man was roaming around the WTC and caused that building to fall down..."

"There was a massive earthquake which destroyed the WTC7! I don't have any proof of it, but I know it happened!"

Come on... where's your proof that this happened? Where's your undeniable, solid evidence that the World Trace Center was bombed by the federal government so it could invade Iraq [which is stupid, considering if we did bomb the WTC, then wouldn't we say the Iraqi government did it from the very beginning instead of blaming it on Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan? ]

You people really need to stop believing every crackpot theory you read.

I'm not believing anything. I'm just skeptical and I want more information....but, nothing's given to me. To tell you the truth, I don't think there is ANY undeniable solid evidence about anything that happened on 9/11. All there is a bunch of evidence, some here and some there and a general conclusion is made and accepted. But, who's making these conclusions and why? Why is so much being withheld? Why all of the coincidences? Where's the missing information left out of the 911 Commission? That's what I want to know.

Do you have this so-called footage? Do you even KNOW it exists? How do you know that one of those crackpot conspiracy theorists didn't just make up the "missing gas station footage" to play into the spooooooky government conspiracy they made up?

Well, I don't know about the original user that this statement was aimed at, but I'm personally curious as to how we've had so many great angles of the WTC being hit by the planes, but I haven't seen anything showing this large commercial airliner hitting the Pentagon. I'm pretty sure there had to be some sort of censorship or repossession of some kind of footage on this. Sure, I've seen accounts of people hearing a plane or seeing "something", but I would like to see for myself.

-TNC

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

Don't know what to believe these days. Both sides do have strong points. One thing I always felt was weird, if you look at the towers collapsing you can see little explosions going down the whole building as it collapses like it was detonated....but I guess this will all be a never ending debate.

 

[BlackLantern]

My cousin, who was a waitress, at one of the coffee shops nearby heard the planes coming in....soon after the first one hit, she said everyone took off and she and the staff that was there hid out in the back store room until they could leave....I don't think this was a grand conspiracy....

 

[BlackLantern]

Don't know what to believe these days. Both sides do have strong points. One thing I always felt was weird, if you look at the towers collapsing you can see little explosions going down the whole building as it collapses like it was detonated....but I guess this will all be a never ending debate.

well the pressure the rest of the building experienced would cause the windows and outer structures of the bulding to bow and the windows to blow out

 

[The Senator]

First, you disprove some janitor because....all janitors aren't credible...for some reason and then you disprove this guy as if he's on the exact same level. What reason do you have to not believe this guy or to believe he would be lying?

Because he is most likely a left-wing radical who already had a pre-existing agenda against the government. Like everyone who believes this crackpot conspiracy theory.

That's for a separate discussion...

Oh, yeah, the government PAID these witnesses to testify. I forgot about that little claim.

They found HUNDREDS of people just willing to lie in front of the camera, for a little extra cash, about a terrorist attack BILLIONS of people watched unfold on live television. I forget how complex this theory really is...

Well yeah. But there are many other experts, engineers, and physicists that feel that the heat may not have been sufficient.

And you are believing what you want to be true. You have a pre-existing agenda against the United States government, and therefore you want to believe what these scientists say. However, the majority of scientists out there say that the heat was hot enough from the initial impact of those two jets to melt the support beams and case the buildings to collapse the way they did.

Well, I'm not speaking for anyone other than Mr. Jennings. I have no reason to not believe this man, but for some reason, you do. Hmmmm. No evidence to back that up?

If Jennings is going to subscribe to these crackpot theories, so be it, he has lost his reputation as an honest man of integrity in the process.

Yep. I've seen the videos that show that it was indeed possible. I'm not denying that. I'm just saying that there is a lot more evidence pointing to something other than what's been officially reported by the government.

There is more evidence which points to the theory supported by the government than what you have posted here! The only reason why you believe there is more evidence supporting YOUR claim is because you have only done one-sided research, and WANT there to be a governmental conspiracy.

In the process, have you read government reports on the terrorist attacks? Have you read independent contractors' reports on the attacks? Have you actually consulted physicists and engineers about what happened? Have you paid any attention to what the sources outside of the crackpot theories you want to be true are saying?

...No one's talking about Iraq.

ZOING!

Wrong-o, our friend Rando mentioned it.

We're not talking about that either, but I'm sure that a significant number of the American people believe that the moon landing might've been staged. Even I'm a little skeptical. And no, these significant number of Americans aren't all janitors.

Right, the moon landing never occurred, but aliens came down from other planets and crashed into New Mexico, bigfoot is roaming the swamps of Florida, and the Loch Ness Monster's cousin is swimming around Lake Champlaign.

Behold, the brilliance of conspiracy theorists!

Oh boy.

Did he? These 9/11 theories can be placed in the same category as the theories about Ronald Reagan working with government scientists to infect homosexual populations with the HIV/ AIDS virus.

I'm not believing anything. I'm just skeptical and I want more information....but, nothing's given to me. To tell you the truth, I don't think there is ANY undeniable solid evidence about anything that happened on 9/11. All there is a bunch of evidence, some here and some there and a general conclusion is made and accepted. But, who's making these conclusions and why? Why is so much being withheld? Why all of the coincidences? Where's the missing information left out of the 911 Commission? That's what I want to know.

Everyone has a right to be skeptical, but to believe reports which have been concocted by radicals who WANT there to be a conspiracy exceeds skepticism and teeters on the brink of the absurd. The theory that the United States attacked itself is ridiculous; the plot is so far-fetched and has way too many plot holes to solidify the theory that the U.S. government attacked itself.

Well, I don't know about the original user that this statement was aimed at, but I'm personally curious as to how we've had so many great angles of the WTC being hit by the planes, but I haven't seen anything showing this large commercial airliner hitting the Pentagon. I'm pretty sure there had to be some sort of censorship or repossession of some kind of footage on this. Sure, I've seen accounts of people hearing a plane or seeing "something", but I would like to see for myself.
-TNC

This is quite simple, isn't it?

We saw the WTC attacks because news stations were already there to witness the second plane hitting the towers. Civilians were in the area with handheld cameras. They were in the right place at the right time.

The Pentagon is a government defense building. Have you ever been there? I have; it isn't easy to get into. There are NO civilian walkways nearby; it is entirely isolated between two stretches of highway. Moreover, no one knew the Pentagon was going to be attacked in advance. It simply happened; as a result, the only footage you have is stop-motion images from a security camera focused on the one side of the building.

The gas station footage, which the other poster talked about, is most likely non-existent. Not real.

But I trust the numerous passers-by who witnessed the attacks to the three or four crackpots who claim there is missing footage, and that a bomb went off instead, and that no Pentagon employees died [which is false, considering 125 were killed upon impact].

 

[Zephyr Alexian]

Is it a conspiratorial act by the government? Was it from an outside threat? I don't know the answers to those questions. How could I debate that; I have no proof and no real authority.

What I would like to know is why those planes were the only ones in the air at that specific time. I would also like to know why the FBI and CIA refused to efficaciously communicate with each other prior to and after the attacks.

I would also like a credible explanation detailing how jet airliners can cause buildings of that magnitude to not only self-destruct, but to systematically collapse. The way those buildings fell was not natural. Any person who is familiar with the mathematics of demolition and how it affects structures will understand that.

Foundations of skyscrapers are hundreds of feet beneath the surface of the ground usually. For that type of building to crumble, you would need to eliminate the ground-level reinforcements for a total collapse.

I have yet to read a satisfying response for why this happened. Frankly, I'm losing the ability to care about it. Regardless of what truly happened, I'm a statistic in the general public, so I have no real right to know. That's the country we Americans live in. The fact that some US citizens still believe otherwise is a little alarming to tell you the truth.

 

[Dope Nose]

Most Americans believe that the government is withholding or lying to us about what went down on 9/11 and 7/7

they do?

 

[TNC9852002]

Maybe I should rephrase and say that according to the many polls that I've seen, most Americans are NOT confident that Al-Queda was responsible for the attacks.


What I find so interesting was that there have been no news stories on Barry Jennings' mysterious death covered by any of the major outlets...I would think that it'd be worth reporting.

But...ya know what they say about the news networks..

I urge everyone, go here and make up your own mind:
http://www.groundreport.com/US/Barry-Jennings-Key-9-11-Witness-Dies

-TNC

 

[The Battousai]

And you are believing what you want to be true. You have a pre-existing agenda against the United States government, and therefore you want to believe what these scientists say. However, the majority of scientists out there say that the heat was hot enough from the initial impact of those two jets to melt the support beams and case the buildings to collapse the way they did.

I've read that the melting point for the particular materials in the support beams was too high for the initial explosions to melt, but that they were weakened sufficiently after the offices had burned for however long they did.

So, basically, both groups of scientists support the reality of what happened in their own way



Also, to whoever mentioned the so-called "explosions" from the falling towers, remember the degree of weight we're dealing with here - after the support beams gave way from their weakened state, 100's of tons of concrete and other materials fell straight downward; this created enough pressure on the floors beneath the falling section of building to cause the air (and, as a result, various office wares) inside the building to be expelled outward violently causing that strange cascading effect.

 

[BizarroAids]

they do?

Sadly, I had several co-workers at my former government job bring this up alot. Out of the 8 that talked about it all the time, only 3 really thought they the government knew about it, the other 5 are hardcore conspiracy theory type that believe the government made it happen.

Me, I don't really care. It happened, it was tragic, let's drop some more bombs on Iraq already.

 

[Manic]

If someone had told me that the US government blew up the World Trade Center and blamed it on foreign terrorists to incite a war in the Middle East, I'd think there was a possibility that it might be close to true.

However, the Pentagon is the US government's military headquaters. The Department of Defense operates out of the Pentagon. Are you seriously telling me the government sought to incite a war immediately after blowing up a chunk of its own military HQ, and sacrificing 100+ Pentagon employees?

If this was all a massive conspiracy, the two planes in New York would've been enough to send the country into a pro-war rage. The plane in a field in Pennsylvania and the plane into the Pentagon exceed the very concept of overkill.

 

[CaptainClown]

well i think it would be more possible that the government knew about it and did nothing for those reasons.

 

[Manic]

We already know that the cabinet was informed of the attack ahead of time. The real question is whether they let it happen on purpose, or if they were just incompetent.

I'm afraid of either answer.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

If 9/11 were a conspiracy, the government would be killing all the people who are saying it were a conspiracy. They already killed thousands of innocent people, what's a few more?

 

[Manic]

If they killed all the conspiracy nuts, it'd only make their claims look more valid...
"Hmm. For some strange reason, all the guys who've been saying that the government was behind 9/11 have all been dieing out. That can't be a coincidence. Maybe they were right, and the government is trying to hush this up."

However, because the majority of the public disregards crackpot conspiracy theories, the government would be completely safe if they let people rattle off about it. The government would just have to keep denying it.

Of course, I'm just playing devil's advocate. I don't think there's really a 9/11 conspiracy.