Kingdom Come written by Mark Waid and painted by Alex Ross.

[Tropico]

I must be extremely bi-polar then because I don't see that distinction. I mean, even in the 90's I remember being excited about DC stuff and wanting to read it before the Marvel stuff I bought; it isn't some freak occurance that started this century. It's always bothered me that Marvel talks about "heroes with problems" like it's their exclusive property, that's completely arrogant. I can see how DC seeks more to inspire as opposed to how Marvel wants to be relatable, but then I think more clearly and realize that is an oversimplification. I don't know, maybe 2 decades of collecting comics have blurred the so called lines for me.

 

[The Leaguer]

DC characters are completely unrelatable. It's a fact of nature.

 

[Spike_x1]

The writer seems to have some Marvel leanings, IMO.

Definitely seems that way to me too.

 

[SpideyInATree]

None of them come close, yes even Watchmen

As I said, that's just my opinion

 

[Assassin]

well your opinion sucks, but thats my opinion..lol

 

[The Question]

DC characters are completely unrelatable. It's a fact of nature.

Wow. That couldn't be any more of an inaccurate sweeping generalization than it is.

 

[SpideyInATree]

well your opinion sucks, but thats my opinion..lol

*sigh*

 

[Ben Urich]

That would be true, if Macs didn't completely suck. The dude got it right.

Macs are lightyears ahead of PCs.

 

[Spike_x1]

Those Mac commercials that are playing now make me laugh.

Even though I completely disagree with how they portray the PC guy compared to the Mac guy.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

I bought Kingdom Come a few months ago,i was a bit skpetical at first.But after reading it,it was a great story.Things got worse,and in the end..it had a optimistic future.The art bothered me at first,but as i read,the art fit the story real well.

 

[Anubis]

Who gives a s**t. As long as I can look at porn and download music I really don't give a damn which one it is.

 

[Harlekin]

Wow. That couldn't be any more of an inaccurate sweeping generalization than it is.

sar·casm (s�rkzm) Pronunciation Key Audio pronunciation of "sarcasm" [P]
n.

1. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
2. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
3. The use of sarcasm. See Synonyms at wit1.

 

[The Leaguer]

Macs are lightyears ahead of PCs.

Yeah, at being amazingly s***ty.

 

[The Question]

sar·casm (s�rkzm) Pronunciation Key Audio pronunciation of "sarcasm" [P]
n.

1. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
2. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
3. The use of sarcasm. See Synonyms at wit1.

Ah. Sorry, it's hard to tell sometimes.

 

[The Batman]

Kingdom come is a great story that has everything you've ever loved about DC comics. the only part i didnt like was supes and ww hooking up at the end.

Also, anyone notice how classic ross and waid tried to make the characters? Reverting Dick back to the robin persona, never outright saying alan scotts the GL, referring to characters like flash and hawkman as an amalgam of the most famous personas? Even then, Ross was saying "Screw the new generation"....

 

[Tropico]

Also, anyone notice how classic ross and waid tried to make the characters? Reverting Dick back to the robin persona, never outright saying alan scotts the GL, referring to characters like flash and hawkman as an amalgam of the most famous personas? Even then, Ross was saying "Screw the new generation"....

Are you serious? The whole battle was between the older generation and the newer one. Many of the Titans had taken the roles of their mentors, even the Marvel Family. Hawkman didn't change all that much, during that time he was also an amalgamation of all the versions in one. If you read 'The Kingdom' you would realize that the Flash is Wally. The only ones that got "stiffed" were Hal and Kyle. I've heard all this crap about Ross' dislike for characters that aren't from the Silver Age or before and even people who claim that he said that he would never paint the newer versions of the characters, but I've seen him do it. Hell, he even painted the future heroes as the 'Legionnaires' instead of the 'Legion of Superheroes' which is the older version. Maybe you're making the same mistake a lot of people do and you read it recently and forget that it was published a decade ago.

 

[incubat]

Kingdom come is a great story that has everything you've ever loved about DC comics. the only part i didnt like was supes and ww hooking up at the end.

Also, anyone notice how classic ross and waid tried to make the characters? Reverting Dick back to the robin persona, never outright saying alan scotts the GL, referring to characters like flash and hawkman as an amalgam of the most famous personas? Even then, Ross was saying "Screw the new generation"....

I don't think that was because of that, I think it was because it was supposed to be a fight between older and newer characters, so he made it very clear that they were the old ones

 

[Artistsean]

This book is so great, I got the Absolute Edition. Over 100 pages of character sketches, production art, and descriptions of how things got started.

What is really incredible to me is that this was Alex Ross' baby. He came up with the overall story, and all the characters (with some help on a few designs), and he and a Mark Waid went through it all and made some definative tweaks and improvements, and came up with the fine details together.

So often I have really rough or basic ideas for an overall story, but since I am not a writer of fine details I never finish them. Its nice to hear that artists and writers do that sometimes.

 

[hippy fascist]

Read it, hated the art, found the story a bit difficult to get into. meh

 

[Fried Gold]

I must be extremely bi-polar then because I don't see that distinction.

LOL @ the radical misuse of 'bi-polar'.

 

[The Batman]

I don't think that was because of that, I think it was because it was supposed to be a fight between older and newer characters, so he made it very clear that they were the old ones

I disagree. There was no reason to make dick red robin, other than the fact that ross probably wanted him to go back to the name that dick is known for. Not to mention Ross and Waid wanted hal for GL but had to settle on alan. They didnt even consider rayner. Anyway you slice it, it was clear who were the old heroes and who were the new ones. Waid and Ross just wanted the classic, iconic names and not the new ones.

 

[The Batman]

Are you serious? The whole battle was between the older generation and the newer one. Many of the Titans had taken the roles of their mentors, even the Marvel Family. Hawkman didn't change all that much, during that time he was also an amalgamation of all the versions in one. If you read 'The Kingdom' you would realize that the Flash is Wally. The only ones that got "stiffed" were Hal and Kyle. I've heard all this crap about Ross' dislike for characters that aren't from the Silver Age or before and even people who claim that he said that he would never paint the newer versions of the characters, but I've seen him do it. Hell, he even painted the future heroes as the 'Legionnaires' instead of the 'Legion of Superheroes' which is the older version. Maybe you're making the same mistake a lot of people do and you read it recently and forget that it was published a decade ago.

For one thing, those titans who took on the role were created before the late 70's, which is pretty much the cutoff date for the timeline most of ross' stories take place in. Second, You say the titans take the role of the mentors, but their roles in the story are still minor. Donna doesnt have as big a role in the story as Diana, King Marvel isnt as important to the story as Captain Marvel is, etc. Alot of these mantle replacements were just minor details, really. Again, Ross wanted to have hal in the book, but DC wanted Kyle....so they decided to put in Alan instead. And in KC, its intended for flash to be a combination of all the flashes using the power from the speed force. Ross wasnt involved in the kingdom, so how can we know he wanted wally as flash from the get go? And why have Dick revert to the robin persona at all? Was it really necessary? No, it wasnt. Simply put, Ross wanted all the characters as iconic and classic as possible, having certain characters take the roles of their mentors because they were almost as old as their mentors in real time. If you think I'm wrong, why are there no major mentions of Jason Todd? Tim Drake? Impulse? Superboy? Kyle Rayner? Huntress? Steel's pretty much the only modern hero that wasnt created for the story that i can think of that appeared in KC

 

[CLARKY]

I have the TPB. It's a great story.

yes, same here.

 

[Eros]

For one thing, those titans who took on the role were created before the late 70's, which is pretty much the cutoff date for the timeline most of ross' stories take place in. Second, You say the titans take the role of the mentors, but their roles in the story are still minor. Donna doesnt have as big a role in the story as Diana, King Marvel isnt as important to the story as Captain Marvel is, etc. Alot of these mantle replacements were just minor details, really. Again, Ross wanted to have hal in the book, but DC wanted Kyle....so they decided to put in Alan instead. And in KC, its intended for flash to be a combination of all the flashes using the power from the speed force. Ross wasnt involved in the kingdom, so how can we know he wanted wally as flash from the get go? And why have Dick revert to the robin persona at all? Was it really necessary? No, it wasnt. Simply put, Ross wanted all the characters as iconic and classic as possible, having certain characters take the roles of their mentors because they were almost as old as their mentors in real time. If you think I'm wrong, why are there no major mentions of Jason Todd? Tim Drake? Impulse? Superboy? Kyle Rayner? Huntress? Steel's pretty much the only modern hero that wasnt created for the story that i can think of that appeared in KC

Ross basically hates everyhero and probably everything past 1970s comics. Every big thing he works on is a rehash to the "Classic" silver-age, and I do mean everything.

 

[The Batman]

Ross basically hates everyhero and probably everything past 1970s comics. Every big thing he works on is a rehash to the "Classic" silver-age, and I do mean everything.

thats basically what i'm trying to say. Even in this story he's about silver age, but the only reason most people dont know it is cause this story takes place in the future. It's not a coincidence that 90% of the post-1975 DC characters dont pop up in this story.