Kryptonite: Use It Or Lose It?

[Octoberist]

like what I said, if it's done more creatively then the "Oh man, here's some Krypton in my hands to harm you!"

As legendary as it is, Kryptonite by itself is overused sadly.

I remembered when I first saw the Kyrptonite toys for Superman Returns, and I was thinking "How boring. Why would a kid play with this?"

 

[GreenKToo]

I agree Lightning. I think the kid should be kidnapped in the sequel by who ever the supervillain is...Then we would see how far supes would go to save a loved one. killing?? crime?? the possibilities are endless.

EDIT: by killing I mean supes killing the villain to save jason.

 

[ultimatefan]

you see, when you use Kryptonite creatively (or at least differently) it's different. Kryptonite used as the powersource for Metallo. Krytonite as blood for Doomsday.

The original poster of thread meant Kryptonite used as kryptonite. as classic as it is, it's boring to me personally although i'm sure we won't see that in Superman Returns 2.

Well, Superman wasn´t actually stabbed with Kryptonite in any of the previous movies or in Smallville - somebody made a bullet out of it, though - or TAS that I remember, if that´s what you mean by different. But there are only so many variations you can make. It´s a crutch, but it´s one of the crutches that has served Superman for the last sixty-eight years and writers will keep coming back to it.

 

[Octoberist]

I know what you're talking about, but to me, there's not a lot of weight.

It's like saying Superman never had a kid and it's never been done before. And my reaction would "Yeah...never.....good idea...ummm..yeah".

NOw if Lex actually created Kyrptonite powered cystal robots (if that's possible), then that would of been cool....but that would mean that Lex had to be smart in which he really wasn't in the movie.

Patting yourself on the back and telling yourself you're a genius surrounded by mere idiots doesn't count! HOY!

 

[matthooper]

What's amazing is that normal/regular kryptonite has only been used twice in the movies, in Superman:The Movie and Superman Returns.

In Supeman:The Movie, it was used perfectly.

In SR Lex had the entire FOS at his disposal with all it's powers and weapons. There were technologies either known from comics or from Superman 2 or simply could have been made up by the writers of SR. All they could come up with was using kryptonite and the rediculous New Krypton plan. Imagine the beasts of Krypton with the powers from the yellow sun, imagine similar containment units such as the one that held Zod and company in Superman the Movie. All of Kryptons technology and the brilliant Luthor creates an island in the middle of the ocean that could have been destroyed with one missle from the Navy.

Krptonite as the weapon in SR was simply the lack of any creativity or imagination. I doubt we'll see it used in SR2.

 

[ultimatefan]

I know what you're talking about, but to me, there's not a lot of weight.

It's like saying Superman never had a kid and it's never been done before. And my reaction would "Yeah...never.....good idea...ummm..yeah".

NOw if Lex actually created Kyrptonite powered cystal robots (if that's possible), then that would of been cool....but that would mean that Lex had to be smart in which he really wasn't in the movie.

Patting yourself on the back and telling yourself you're a genius surrounded by mere idiots doesn't count! HOY!

To be honest, that sounds incredibly cheesy...

 

[toddly6666]

normal rock kryptonite was also used in superman 3 - when Richard Pryor gives Superman as a present...

I'm not sure if it was used in Superman 4....

Kryptonite running inside Metallo or in Doomsday's blood is definitely more creative than usual, but it's still old.

It doesn't matter that kryptonite is one of Superman's weaknesses. Does every other superhero in the Marvel or DC universe always have a weakness? No, they don't - that's why you pit Super-strength superheros versus super-strength villains. It's not about a fight of winning versus losing. It's about the entertainment factor of watching huge fighting bouts - wrecking cities, smashing through buildings and streets, getting uppercutted into space, etc. a la final fight between Neo and Agent Smith in Matrix Revolutions. A person loses a fight due to being tricked, not usually being overpowered as in most hero/villain action movies.

Using Lois or the son as bait to pee off Superman is definitely good too - but any villain can do that - whether it be Luthor or Darkseid...If they are going to use kryptonite again, the villain should inject some liquid form of kryptonite into Lois or the son, so that Superman can't go near his loved ones, and just kick some villain ass already...

 

[ultimatefan]

normal rock kryptonite was also used in superman 3 - when Richard Pryor gives Superman as a present...

I'm not sure if it was used in Superman 4....

Kryptonite running inside Metallo or in Doomsday's blood is definitely more creative than usual, but it's still old.

It doesn't matter that kryptonite is one of Superman's weaknesses. Does every other superhero in the Marvel or DC universe always have a weakness? No, they don't - that's why you pit Super-strength superheros versus super-strength villains. It's not about a fight of winning versus losing. It's about the entertainment factor of watching huge fighting bouts - wrecking cities, smashing through buildings and streets, getting uppercutted into space, etc. a la final fight between Neo and Agent Smith in Matrix Revolutions. A person loses a fight due to being tricked, not usually being overpowered as in most hero/villain action movies.

Using Lois or the son as bait to pee off Superman is definitely good too - but any villain can do that - whether it be Luthor or Darkseid...If they are going to use kryptonite again, the villain should inject some liquid form of kryptonite into Lois or the son, so that Superman can't go near his loved ones, and just kick some villain ass already...

The fight becomes less interesting if there´s no real danger. To me the "superbrawl" in Matrix Reloaded ended up being really boring cuz the characters never seemed to be in real physical danger.

 

[ultimatefan]

What's amazing is that normal/regular kryptonite has only been used twice in the movies, in Superman:The Movie and Superman Returns.

In Supeman:The Movie, it was used perfectly.

In SR Lex had the entire FOS at his disposal with all it's powers and weapons. There were technologies either known from comics or from Superman 2 or simply could have been made up by the writers of SR. All they could come up with was using kryptonite and the rediculous New Krypton plan. Imagine the beasts of Krypton with the powers from the yellow sun, imagine similar containment units such as the one that held Zod and company in Superman the Movie. All of Kryptons technology and the brilliant Luthor creates an island in the middle of the ocean that could have been destroyed with one missle from the Navy.

Krptonite as the weapon in SR was simply the lack of any creativity or imagination. I doubt we'll see it used in SR2.

Funny thing is, comics fans rarely complained about how ostensively overused Kryptonite has been, often in the most obvious and non-imaginative ways, through all the Superman mythology and non-comics incarnations. But they need to come up with reasons to bash SR, so...

 

[JamalYIgle]

you see, when you use Kryptonite creatively (or at least differently) it's different. Kryptonite used as the powersource for Metallo. Krytonite as blood for Doomsday.

The original poster of thread meant Kryptonite used as kryptonite. as classic as it is, it's boring to me personally although i'm sure we won't see that in Superman Returns 2.

Doomdsay doesn't have kryptonite blood, Doomsday is a Kryptonian.

 

[toddly6666]

but in comic books, superheroes always fight supervillains, and we know no one is really going to die. And if anyone dies, they will always come back. In comic books, superheroes just save the day, but not the future - the same villains always come back. But that doesn't make me not enjoy the comic book. Comic books have always had super brawl fights, which are pretty damn entertaining.

DC comic writing (of the famous superheroes, i'm not talking about WATCHMEN) didn't get really interesting until I read the following creative ones - such as in Alex Ross' Kingdome Come and Justice, and Alan Moore's Superman/Wonderwoman/Batman versus Mongol (which was also animated in Justice League Unlimited cartoon but not as good as the short comic). The best DC comics i've read have not involved Luthor or Joker (both non-superpowered villains). Dark Knight Returns is great, but it's not just due to the Joker - it's just a creative, well-written book that doesn't fall into camp or predictability.

The way I look at is this:
Kryptonite with Superman is at the same level of Robin with Batman. Kryptonite and Robin have been part of those character's history, but so what? They don't really help or make it interesting - in fact they just make both characters campy.

 

[ultimatefan]

but in comic books, superheroes always fight supervillains, and we know no one is really going to die. And if anyone dies, they will always come back. In comic books, superheroes just save the day, but not the future - the same villains always come back. But that doesn't make me not enjoy the comic book. Comic books have always had super brawl fights, which are pretty damn entertaining.

DC comic writing (of the famous superheroes, i'm not talking about WATCHMEN) didn't get really interesting until I read the following creative ones - such as in Alex Ross' Kingdome Come and Justice, and Alan Moore's Superman/Wonderwoman/Batman versus Mongol (which was also animated in Justice League Unlimited cartoon but not as good as the short comic). The best DC comics i've read have not involved Luthor or Joker (both non-superpowered villains). Dark Knight Returns is great, but it's not just due to the Joker - it's just a creative, well-written book that doesn't fall into camp or predictability.

The way I look at is this:
Kryptonite with Superman is at the same level of Robin with Batman. Kryptonite and Robin have been part of those character's history, but so what? They don't really help or make it interesting - in fact they just make both characters campy.

Kryptonite isn´t campy per se. You explain it as being a form of radiation that´s deadly to Superman´s biology. It´s as believable an explanation as anything in the Superman mythos.

 

[The Question]

Uhm, and evetually Superman would fight back.

Of course he would fight back.

The point is no matter what you throw at him physically, he would find a way to beat him. So you have something that takes the fight out of him before it starts.

Or, he could just fight someone who is his physical equal, or counters in him in some other area (like energy manipulation).

Uh, Metallo is powered by Kryptonite by the way, that's the only way hae can beat him.

Not true. Metallo is Superman's equal in strength and reflexes. He also went for about ten years without Kryptonite and he did rather well.

Parasite can only absorb his power tfor short periods of time and as long as Superman can keep him at a distance or not touch him physically, the fights already over.

That's not true. First of all, The Parasite only needs to be near him to drain him. He doesn't have to touch him. Second, even if he doesn't drain Superman, he can absorb other nearby power sources like electric cables or people. Third, the only way Superman could keep him at bay would be to run away from him. Parasite would just absorb Superman's heat vision if he tried to keep him at a distance with that.

He's beaten Doomsday, who at one point was stronger than him,

Doomsday's a pretty crappy character anyway.

Darkseid

Which is due solely to people who have no idea how to write Darkseid. Darkseid, when written well, is Superman's superior in pretty much every way.

and Mongol.

They're pretty much equal. Their fights can go either way.

you need kryptonite and it's not going to go away.

No, you don't. You only need Kryptonite if you're not a very imaginative writer.

Every hero has an achilles heel. Kryptonite is Superman's. What other options are there?

The only way they will move away from that is to humanize him--perhaps by using someone he loves (like Lois) as a bait for ransom. I can't think of too many other things that would bring him to his knees without retconning everything we know of the character.

How about, you know, fighting someone who's his equal in terms of power? I know, it's a crazy idea, but it's so crazy that it just might work.

 

[toddly6666]

If they are going to use kryptonite as well, I do like the idea of Luthor having his base made out of kryptonite or some kryptonite force field around his base so he can do his evil stuff or hire/work with people like Brainiac, Darkseid, Parasite, or Metallo and obviously there is no way Superman can crash his pad or ruin his plans on Luthor's home turf. I see it symbolic of North Korea, Iraq or Afghanistan - you can't just walk into those country and fix things or else you will get screwed/killed, you have to wait til the bad guys come out of their home/base/country. I never liked how Luthor so easily escaped all the time and how Superman just didn't snatch him and throw him in prison in the previous movies. The kryptonite island in Superman Returns is a good idea just as his base - just as a minor side thing, but not as such a destructable island used as a major plot device. It should already be common sense to Luthor to always be carrying around kryptonite. Why would he not be carrying it, especially if they are making all these movies with continuity? Luthor was carrying his kryptonite knife around I suppose to "surprise" Superman, but guess what, "surprising Superman with kryptonite" is always the same. Superman should already know that Luthor has kryptonite and somehow use his own smarts or muscle to somehow beat Luthor with kryptonite...."look what i have - a kryptonite necklace! a kryptonite rock inside an iron box! a kryptonite knife in my pocket! a kryptonite island! surprise! surprise!" The idea of surprising Superman with kryptonite has been used over and over. Enough already. Let Superman be aware of someone having kryptonite - now that would be a surprise in the writing of these movies.

If they are going to keep on having Luthor in these movies too, I like the idea of his kryptonite costume. I mean it's freaking common sense that he should have been wearing this costume starting in Superman 2 and forward, ever since finding about Superman's weakness:

 

[JamalYIgle]

No, you don't. You only need Kryptonite if you're not a very imaginative writer.



How about, you know, fighting someone who's his equal in terms of power? I know, it's a crazy idea, but it's so crazy that it just might work.

He fights characters who are his equal constantly, Bizzaro, Darkseid, Mongol, Lobo, Maxima, Doomsday, Subjekt 13 and he always comes out on top because of guts and determination.. The point is as George Lucas once said" Superman is too powerful. without Kryptonite, Superman just doesn't work."
Considering Metallo isn't a indestructible robot anymore(that was only done for the animated series. in the comics he absorbes metal transforms his body and is powered by kryptonite.), and the current parasite needs to be in physical contact for her powers to work( even the Rudy jones version was limited to this) according to the DC encyclopedia my points still stand.

 

[storyteller]

Superman has many other weaknesses out there. The problem is that everyone keeps thinking kryptonite can only hurt him. Superman can take alot of physical damage, but bring energy weapons to the mix and we have a whole new story. Go read a comic, superman is nearly killed every 10 issues, not by being beaten into submission, but by nifty technology. All thats really required is to bring superman to the animated series level. An uber high power gun can shake him up but wont kill him./

 

[Morgoth]

It's time for something other than Kryptonite and Lex.

 

[The Question]

He fights characters who are his equal constantly, Bizzaro, Darkseid, Mongol, Lobo, Maxima, Doomsday, Subjekt 13 and he always comes out on top because of guts and determination..

He wins because if he lost, then his series would be over. Of course the writers are going to have him win.

The point is as George Lucas once said" Superman is too powerful. without Kryptonite, Superman just doesn't work."

Well, George Lucas is wrong, then. The Superman comics went for about ten years where Kryptonite almost never apeared, and his villains did perfectly fine.

Considering Metallo isn't a indestructible robot anymore(that was only done for the animated series. in the comics he absorbes metal transforms his body and is powered by kryptonite.),

That's not true. Metallo went for about a ten year stretch where he wasn't powered by Kryptonite. He was still Superman's equal in terms of strength.

and the current parasite needs to be in physical contact for her powers to work( even the Rudy jones version was limited to this) according to the DC encyclopedia my points still stand.

Again, that's not true. Rudy only needs to be near someone to drain them. And even if he had to be in physical contact with him power source, it still wouldn't matter as Superman wouldn't be able to keep him at a distance forever. Rudy could just absorb other nearby power sources, and would absorb SUperman's heat vision if Clark used it on him.

 

[JamalYIgle]

He wins because if he lost, then his series would be over. Of course the writers are going to have him win.



Well, George Lucas is wrong, then. The Superman comics went for about ten years where Kryptonite almost never apeared, and his villains did perfectly fine.

When was this 10 year stretch? wasn't the Byrne years since he reintroduced Metallo with Kryptonite in his chest.Metallo had a back up powersupply when luthor took his kryptonite that allowed him to escape but when he was upgraded by Neron, he got the Green K back(it wasn't 10 years it was 2). Metallo has never been without Kryptonite. It wasn't the "Lois and Clark get married years because they not only had Lex with the kryptonite ring but they also introduced the mxyzptlyk created Red Kryptonite. There was a breif period when he was invulnerable to Kryptonite in the 1970's, but after painting themselves in a corner this was reversed. It wasn't the 60's because I checked the DC showcases I have and yep there's kryptonite.

That's not true. Metallo went for about a ten year stretch where he wasn't powered by Kryptonite. He was still Superman's equal in terms of strength.



Again, that's not true. Rudy only needs to be near someone to drain them. And even if he had to be in physical contact with him power source, it still wouldn't matter as Superman wouldn't be able to keep him at a distance forever. Rudy could just absorb other nearby power sources, and would absorb Sperman's heat vision if Clark used it on him.

from Wikipedia:
The Parasite is a fictional character and supervillain who appears in Superman stories published by DC Comics. The Parasite first appeared in Action Comics #340 (August 1966).
Originally a janitor, the Parasite's alter ego has been identified with two different people. In the original Silver Age comics, his alter ego was Maxwell Jensen; after the 1986 Superman origin revamp, his alter ego became Rudy Jones.
In either version, the Parasite possesses the power to temporarily absorb the energy and knowledge of whoever he touches, usually leaving his victims in a weakened state. Given this ability, the Parasite often desires to absorb the Man of Steel's powers for himself.







Uhm.... I think I have the upperhand in this situation.

 

[roach]

when Ur a supervillain U aint gonna shoot down villain ideas because you've done it before......Yes lets condemn Sr because it took it's basic plot from STM but not say a word about BB which duplicated the whole gas Gotham plot from B89.

 

[afan]

My problem with K is the inconsistent way it is used, and it's abundancy.

Green K is immediately debilitating to Superman. It instills an overwhelming and disabling infirmity for the Man of Steel in proportion to it's proximity, and prolonged exposure results in death. As he approached it he would identify the effect, allowing him to take measures to avoid close contact.

It does not rob Superman of his powers. It does however instill such a severe weakness that he is totally incapable of using his "active" powers. He is helpless but not powerless.

Green K is very very rare on Earth. Unlike it's presence in "Smallville"(which I blame for much of the confusion surrounding Green K) it is not found evrywhere lying about.

And since someone brought up magic...........
Magic is not a "weakness" of Superman's, he is powerless against the intent of magic. There is a difference. If a mage punched Superman his fist would be no less hurting than anyone else.

 

[The Question]

When was this 10 year stretch? wasn't the Byrne years since he reintroduced Metallo with Kryptonite in his chest.Metallo had a back up powersupply when luthor took his kryptonite that allowed him to escape but when he was upgraded by Neron, he got the Green K back(it wasn't 10 years it was 2). Metallo has never been without Kryptonite. It wasn't the "Lois and Clark get married years because they not only had Lex with the kryptonite ring but they also introduced the mxyzptlyk created Red Kryptonite. There was a breif period when he was invulnerable to Kryptonite in the 1970's, but after painting themselves in a corner this was reversed. It wasn't the 60's because I checked the DC showcases I have and yep there's kryptonite.

Metallo went for most of the 90s without using Kryptonite. Luthor took Metallo's Kryptonite around 1990 or so, and Neron was giving villains upgrades in 1998. And Neron's upgrade wasn't giving Metallo his Kryptonite back. It was giving him shapeshifting powers and the power to control other machines.

from Wikipedia:
The Parasite is a fictional character and supervillain who appears in Superman stories published by DC Comics. The Parasite first appeared in Action Comics #340 (August 1966).
Originally a janitor, the Parasite's alter ego has been identified with two different people. In the original Silver Age comics, his alter ego was Maxwell Jensen; after the 1986 Superman origin revamp, his alter ego became Rudy Jones.
In either version, the Parasite possesses the power to temporarily absorb the energy and knowledge of whoever he touches, usually leaving his victims in a weakened state. Given this ability, the Parasite often desires to absorb the Man of Steel's powers for himself.







Uhm.... I think I have the upperhand in this situation.

No, you don't/ Rudy doesn't have to touch someone to drain them. He only has to be near them. And even then, it doesn't matter. Superman can't keep him at a distance. He throes heavy objects at him, Rudy absorbs the kinetic energy. He uses heat vision, Rudy absorbs the heat.

 

[JamalYIgle]

Metallo went for most of the 90s without using Kryptonite. Luthor took Metallo's Kryptonite around 1990 or so, and Neron was giving villains upgrades in 1998. And Neron's upgrade wasn't giving Metallo his Kryptonite back. It was giving him shapeshifting powers and the power to control other machines.

Actually he lost it in 1994 and Umderworld unleashed happened in 1996. He was being powered by Kryptonite.

No, you don't/ Rudy doesn't have to touch someone to drain them. He only has to be near them. And even then, it doesn't matter. Superman can't keep him at a distance. He throes heavy objects at him, Rudy absorbs the kinetic energy. He uses heat vision, Rudy absorbs the heat.

No he does have to have physical contact to drain them, the only thing he can drain at a distance is energy. And even then when it happened all it did was mutate him because Superman used him to drain off his own excess solar energy buildup.it doesn't matter since that version is dead anyway.
Dude, I work for DC. I've got the comics and the info at a phone call away to Eddie Berganza and Matt Idelson.I know what i'm talking about.

 

[Cyrusbales]

Kryptonite tipped bullets, or Kryptonite nerve gas. Perhaps Kryptonite needles that inject a krytonite solution into his blood, it's not hard damn it!!!! Or instead of stabbing him then throwing him off the cliff, STAB HIM IN THE HEART!!! SLIT HIS THROAT!!!!

I don't mind about using kryptonite, as long as they use their freakin' mind about it!!!!!

 

[JamalYIgle]

Kryptonite tipped bullets, or Kryptonite nerve gas. Perhaps Kryptonite needles that inject a krytonite solution into his blood, it's not hard damn it!!!! Or instead of stabbing him then throwing him off the cliff, STAB HIM IN THE HEART!!! SLIT HIS THROAT!!!!

I don't mind about using kryptonite, as long as they use their freakin' mind about it!!!!!

Well the way it's handled in the comics these days is that the general public is unaware of Kryptonite. it's rare, hard to come by. I think as off the most recent Action comics, Luthor used most of the kryptonite on the planet to reactivate a Kryptonian battle crusier. So you won't be seeing it used too much.