Lasso Of Truth: In The Long Run Will This Film Live Up To The Current Hype?

[BestGirl]

This is exactly how I feel.


...although, the period setting makes it feels like we hit the reset button on her entire supporting cast. But if The Winter Soldier turned out good, I hope WW sequel can too.

That's the one thing that bothers me. I hate that we probably won't see any of Diana's supporting cast in the sequels. They were part of what made the movie so great.

 

[The Guard]

General audiences, and people in general, tend to embrace things that are likeable and easily digestible.

I don't see that changing anytime soon.

 

[metaphysician]

That's the one thing that bothers me. I hate that we probably won't see any of Diana's supporting cast in the sequels. They were part of what made the movie so great.

True but inevitable. That was foreordained the moment they set the movie in WWI. At least there are still the other Amazons.

 

[Flemm]

That's the one thing that bothers me. I hate that we probably won't see any of Diana's supporting cast in the sequels. They were part of what made the movie so great.

Well, there's a downside to that, but also an upside in the sense that the writers are free to construct the script for the next movie around a fresh set of characters (rather than having to worry about working a lot of recurring characters into the story).

That can be a good thing.

Steve is a fully-fleshed out character within the scope of this movie, and the rest of the group are a sort of rag-tag band of fellow travelers that give Diana an introduction to the complexities of human nature.

That was very effective for this movie, but more is not always better. They will live on as part of Diana's memories and experiences.

 

[flickchick85]

I know this sounds like a purely contrarian rant. If you want to think so, fine,

Ok.

In all seriousness though, I think it's a great movie, and the only thing that won't age well about it is the CGI. Which is to be expected with superhero flicks these days, unfortunately. Sure, it doesn't do anything new, but it does the old stuff far better than any recent movies of its kind, imo.

And I also think it will continue to be seen as a milestone and game-changer for both women in the industry and female characters in the blockbuster arena.

So yes, I think it will absolutely live up to the hype.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Ok.

In all seriousness though, I think it's a great movie, and the only thing that won't age well about it is the CGI. Which is to be expected with superhero flicks these days, unfortunately. Sure, it doesn't do anything new, but it does the old stuff far better than any recent movies of its kind, imo.

And I also think it will continue to be seen as a milestone and game-changer for both women in the industry and female characters in the blockbuster arena.

So yes, I think it will absolutely live up to the hype.

It's really not if you read through my post though. I like the film and think it's as stated incredibly solid, and I did point out that I do think it will have an effect on how and what kind of female led action tent poles will be greenlit in the future.

But right now all across the online world we see the praise as being stratospheric and... I like the movie lots but I don't see it as being as spectacular as others. I think if you separate the film from the important cultural context, which I agree is pretty big in terms of reaction to it as well as something you can't totally tease 100% away from the film in and of itself, you are left with judging the film on it's own merits and on that level I see a really well made film that realized in live action a character and world that I personally have immense affection for and was happy to see done as well and entertaining as it was... But it's not LOGAN in it's depth of characterization and emotional heft, it doesn't contain a toweringly magnetic and entertaining performance like Heath Ledger's Joker from THE DARK KNIGHT.

I was one of few around here that gave Gal the benefit of the doubt when so many were being very uncharitable about her as an actress as well as some going into tasteless body shaming territory because she wasn't immediately a combination of Lynda Carter, a pornstar and a UFC fighter. I thought she was good in the part and I LOVED that they gave her an arc where she, Diana, was challenged in her world view. The film did a lot of things I was hoping it would do and Gal was a part of that but the praise now not only rings on hyperbolic side it has the scent of hypocrisy given the over the top criticism from not too long ago which was standard faire around here.


I will admit that my take on lots of stuff that gets the "It's SOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOD" treatment may make me seem contrarian flick, but I just find that we as a community of fans operate in extremes these days to the point that too often the language we use when analyzing the products that we are passionate about becomes meaningless, which adds to the current state of discourse online about these things.

 

[flickchick85]

I agree the fan community operates in extremes, but there's another word for that: enthusiasm. And I love you KRYPTON, but your tendency to create a thread like this whenever people show a lot of love for something you don't is a no less fanboyish trait.

 

[Greenlite]

I think fans have the tendency to exaggerate stuff first, then judge things more rationally in a year's time.

For example the podcasts I followed back in 2012, bat bloggers were like "Rises is better than TDK" and 2 years later they admit "well...TDK's still the daddy of this genre"

But that doesn't take away WW's pop cultural and industrial influence worldwide unfolding in front of our eyes and we might just see the narrative go from "BEST MOVIE EVA!!" to "A great movie ranked alongside Sup 79 and Bat 89!"

But knowing the fan community there will be a segment of people in a few years time going out of their way to insist that WW is "overrated" (in a negative tone)

 

[Flemm]

There's no real mystery as to why people are reacting very positively to this movie and didn't have a similar reaction to something like BvS.

This is a much better movie.

I recognize that "better movie" is a simple phrase that denotes something complicated, with layers of subjectivity. People are complicated, and culture is complicated.

So there is a lot to dissect and discuss in that simple phrase.

But there is a glaring difference in quality. It's not a small difference.

The idea that it's all a result of hive mind and group-think is mostly just a form of denial about something that is actually fairly simple and obvious.

But knowing the fan community there will be a segment of people going out of their way to insist that WW is "overrated" (in a negative tone)

Yeah, but that's mostly something that happens on a micro level in fandom. Nothing has really changed about the broader perception of something like Nolan's Batman films, though they might no longer be the trendy thing in certain fan circles.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I agree the fan community operates in extremes, but there's another word for that: enthusiasm. And I love you KRYPTON, but your tendency to create a thread like this whenever people show a lot of love for something you don't is a no less fanboyish trait.

Uh... You have me mistaken with somebody else entirely flick, to the point I am actually a little offended now given all the interactions we have had. Please, PLEASE tell me what thread I have ever started that was in any way close to this one? Go down the list of threads I have started and I don't think you will find any like this. I don't make "skepticism" threads for films years away from seeing the light of day like some nor do I create rant threads. In fact I don't have a lot of threads in general that I have initiated in the four years I have been here flick.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I think fans have the tendency to exaggerate stuff first, then judge things more rationally in a year's time.

For example the podcasts I followed back in 2012, bat bloggers were like "Rises is better than TDK" and 2 years later they admit "well...TDK's still the daddy of this genre"

But that doesn't take away WW's pop cultural and industrial influence worldwide unfolding in front of our eyes and we might just see the narrative go from "BEST MOVIE EVA!!" to "A great movie ranked alongside Sup 79 and Bat 89!"

But knowing the fan community there will be a segment of people in a few years time going out of their way to insist that WW is "overrated" (in a negative tone)

I only use "overrated" to describe movies I feel have a seriously inflated legacy (i.e..The Dark Knight being just behind The Godfather") or movies in which my personal fulfillment isn't reflective of the hype/acclaim it received "LaLaLand".

But I don't use "overrated" to describe a movie I think is bad. I just say it's a bad movie.

For example, I think Captain America Civil War is overrated in comparison to its superior middle installment, but I wouldn't say the reaction toward it is without a bit of merit.

To suggest WW is overrated may be fair, but to say the hype is unwarranted is a disservice to the character as both a female and a great comic character in general.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

For me movies that stand the test of time are the ones that have a lot of heart and a solid emotional core in them. For me, while WW isn't the best CBM ever (it may not even crack my top ten though I haven't tried to make one in a while), I think it will stand the test of time.

The likes of X2 and Spider-Man 2 both had a lot of heart and strong emotional core to them, and are still well liked over ten years after coming out. I honestly see the same happening with WW.

 

[flickchick85]

Uh... You have me mistaken with somebody else entirely flick, to the point I am actually a little offended now given all the interactions we have had. Please, PLEASE tell me what thread I have ever started that was in any way close to this one? Go down the list of threads I have started and I don't think you will find any like this. I don't make "skepticism" threads for films years away from seeing the light of day like some nor do I create rant threads. In fact I don't have a lot of threads in general that I have initiated in the four years I have been here flick.

You are correct KRYPTON, I did mistake you for someone else - I was sure you were the one who had created that thread about the Berlanti shows, which this thread immediately reminded me of. I do apologize for that.

But if I'm being honest, threads like this still do irk me for that reason. I don't mean to offend, that's just how I feel whenever I see the inevitable backlash kick in for something that's widely praised and the cries of "it's overrated!" begin. It's still classic fanboyism to me, just of a different sort. But I'm not excluding myself here - I'm very much a fangirl prone to the same tendencies.

 

[The Shape]

You are correct KRYPTON, I did mistake you for someone else - I was sure you were the one who had created that thread about the Berlanti shows, which this thread immediately reminded me of. I do apologize for that.

But if I'm being honest, threads like this still do irk me for that reason. I don't mean to offend, that's just how I feel whenever I see the inevitable backlash kick in for something that's widely praised and the cries of "it's overrated!" begin. It's still classic fanboyism to me, just of a different sort. But I'm not excluding myself here - I'm very much a fangirl prone to the same tendencies.

Release date: "This movie is great!"

One week later: "This movie is great, but is it really as great as everyone says it is and will it be remembered forever?"

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

You are correct KRYPTON, I did mistake you for someone else - I was sure you were the one who had created that thread about the Berlanti shows, which this thread immediately reminded me of. I do apologize for that.

But if I'm being honest, threads like this still do irk me for that reason. I don't mean to offend, that's just how I feel whenever I see the inevitable backlash kick in for something that's widely praised and the cries of "it's overrated!" begin. It's still classic fanboyism to me, just of a different sort. But I'm not excluding myself here - I'm very much a fangirl prone to the same tendencies.

We all have it in us. Fan is short for fanatic after all. I think a key difference is that I think we too often mistake terms like "overrated" or "mediocre" to mean the same as something as negative and belittling as "trash" or "terrible".

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I think there's a risk of overhyping the movie, it's great, but not "best ever" great. it should be in the "top 10 of all time superhero films" of many people's list after things cool down. that RT score puts a bit of pressure expectation wise too, but WB wont complain about the money it generate lol

This, exactly (I rated it 8.5/10).

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

If we get a TDK-quality Wondy sequel, I would be ecstatic, but I'll definitely take TWS or CW level quality.

 

[Ivan Drago]

Uh... You have me mistaken with somebody else entirely flick, to the point I am actually a little offended now given all the interactions we have had. Please, PLEASE tell me what thread I have ever started that was in any way close to this one? Go down the list of threads I have started and I don't think you will find any like this. I don't make "skepticism" threads for films years away from seeing the light of day like some nor do I create rant threads. In fact I don't have a lot of threads in general that I have initiated in the four years I have been here flick.

.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

That's the one thing that bothers me. I hate that we probably won't see any of Diana's supporting cast in the sequels. They were part of what made the movie so great.

To be honest though, Diana's supporting cast post the Perez run has shifted and changed a lot over the decades. I suspect if the next film moves the timeline forward whether modern day or going to some post 1917 period that she will get a coterie pulled from the other supporting characters that have populated her books.

 

[Flint Marko]

I don't see anyone hyping this up as a masterpiece or one of the best movies ever made so yes, I think it will live up to the hype. Most of what I've seen are people like me who adore the film but also acknowledge that it has its fair share of flaws. However it's importance as the first major female-led superhero film, along with being the first good live-action DC film since 2012, can't be overstated. It was just what we needed at just the right time

 

[dhandler01]

It's really not if you read through my post though. I like the film and think it's as stated incredibly solid, and I did point out that I do think it will have an effect on how and what kind of female led action tent poles will be greenlit in the future.

But right now all across the online world we see the praise as being stratospheric and... I like the movie lots but I don't see it as being as spectacular as others. I think if you separate the film from the important cultural context, which I agree is pretty big in terms of reaction to it as well as something you can't totally tease 100% away from the film in and of itself, you are left with judging the film on it's own merits and on that level I see a really well made film that realized in live action a character and world that I personally have immense affection for and was happy to see done as well and entertaining as it was... But it's not LOGAN in it's depth of characterization and emotional heft, it doesn't contain a toweringly magnetic and entertaining performance like Heath Ledger's Joker from THE DARK KNIGHT.

I was one of few around here that gave Gal the benefit of the doubt when so many were being very uncharitable about her as an actress as well as some going into tasteless body shaming territory because she wasn't immediately a combination of Lynda Carter, a pornstar and a UFC fighter. I thought she was good in the part and I LOVED that they gave her an arc where she, Diana, was challenged in her world view. The film did a lot of things I was hoping it would do and Gal was a part of that but the praise now not only rings on hyperbolic side it has the scent of hypocrisy given the over the top criticism from not too long ago which was standard faire around here.


I will admit that my take on lots of stuff that gets the "It's SOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOD" treatment may make me seem contrarian flick, but I just find that we as a community of fans operate in extremes these days to the point that too often the language we use when analyzing the products that we are passionate about becomes meaningless, which adds to the current state of discourse online about these things.

Of course it isnt Logan...this is the beginning of a storyarch and that is the end of a long run for Jackman in the role. They arent comparable because they arent even seeking to be the same type of movie. Apples to oranges...

And lets not forget it isnt just the fanboy community that is hyping this movie up...everyone is. You can be dismissive ofus because we are predisposed to like the film and be hyperbolic either way but the general audience is probably even MORE enthusiastic for the film than we are. That is why I say it is like Superman: TM...sure before that movie people knew Superman and liked him but that movie made him a part of Americana across the board. Wonder Woman is the same way...she has shown that not only can a strong woman lead a film (directed by a woman as well) but that there is an audience for these movies beyond just the usual 25 and under male. Just like we look back and say S:TM made comic book movies a thing, we will look back and say WW made female cbms a thing.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Just like we look back and say S:TM made comic book movies a thing, we will look back and say WW made female cbms a thing.

Nicely put

 

[flickchick85]

We all have it in us. Fan is short for fanatic after all. I think a key difference is that I think we too often mistake terms like "overrated" or "mediocre" to mean the same as something as negative and belittling as "trash" or "terrible".

At the end of the day, everything is overrated to someone. That's just how it goes. I don't see this film as any sort of special case on that front.

 

[Greenlite]

Yeah, but that's mostly something that happens on a micro level in fandom. Nothing has really changed about the broader perception of something like Nolan's Batman films, though they might no longer be the trendy thing in certain fan circles.

I think in 2012 The Avengers already beat down on TDKR and there are multiple sites discussing if "fun" is the new F word for superhero genre, unfortunately I hear a few friends or online that the first reactions were "it's not as good as the last one"

But ya I'm sure it's only the fandom community that has small portion of fans saying negative stuff or "TDK is overrated" etc, though I see quite a bit here too =P

I only use "overrated" to describe movies I feel have a seriously inflated legacy (i.e..The Dark Knight being just behind The Godfather") or movies in which my personal fulfillment isn't reflective of the hype/acclaim it received "LaLaLand".

But I don't use "overrated" to describe a movie I think is bad. I just say it's a bad movie.

For example, I think Captain America Civil War is overrated in comparison to its superior middle installment, but I wouldn't say the reaction toward it is without a bit of merit.

To suggest WW is overrated may be fair, but to say the hype is unwarranted is a disservice to the character as both a female and a great comic character in general.

Ya that's pretty much what overrate means, but I see a few people use overrate as a negative for some reason. CW generated headlines like "best superhero movie ever" (seriously) and ya, that was overrated.

is the last sentence a response to me? I think the hype is real but "hyping" it as "the best superhero movie" and "THE best superhero moment in cinema history" (it's really out there) are emotional statement that risks raising audiences expectation too high and I'd hate to have people misunderstanding the headlines/reports and walking in expecting something impossible.

This, exactly (I rated it 8.5/10).

Thanks

 

[-Arya-]

Yes, I think it will. I predict it will stand alongside the great superhero origin movies with Batman Begins, Superman, Spider-Man, and Iron Man. Does it have flaws? Sure, but so do all the movies I listed. Those flaws are simply outnumbered by the many, many things the movie got right.