Lee Bermejo and Brian Azzarello's Joker Graphic Novel

[ultimatefan]

^Thanks, we try! Yeah, I remember some critics at the time saying Batman got the "Rambo syndrom" and crap like that. Now it´s probably called the "Tarantino syndrom" or something.

 

[Nivek]

This book is no where near The Killing Joke, some of you need to actually read the comic instead of hype reviews.

It was an okay story that fed into fans of Nolans TDK, but more often than not kinda got stupid and tried to hard to be modern.

The great thing about Killing Joke is that it is timeless. In some respects, so is Dark Knight Returns. But in 5 years, this story will be as dated as Batman vs. Spawn. And the classic Joker-Venom-over-Knives Joker will still be around, as will the non-thug Life versions of Killer Croc, Penguin, and a Harley Quinn thats not interchangeable with the female villain from Die Hard with a Vengeance. But I didn't read anything here that was all that inventive, original, and earth shattering, other than the jokers choppy Glasgow Smile and dirty face looks closer to Heaths popular Joker take right now. Story wise, it was kind of bland, boring (maybe it was the Jonny character), and made Joker more like Hannibal Lector in some parts than well... The Joker.

But I'm not saying I'm disappointed in the story, it was a entertaining Elseworlds one shot. Just disappointed in some fans quick to call it something that it is obviously not. The best Joker story ever, and all that original.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I never said it was as good as TKJ.

Anyway i've only just noticed this but when Joker kills Tommy Bang Bang and goes outside, he's talking as though Batman is there. He's claiming to be doing Batman's dirty work for him, and then he play's Russian roulette. Crazy. I do really like this book.

 

[Nivek]

The more I re-read it, the more the "fresh" takes on Killer Croc and Harley bug me. They could have been swapped out with n-name, non-continuity character created just for this book. A big roided out wad of Hired muscle, and a psycho stripper Mute Mallory Know character and it would not have added or taken away from the story.

Like I said, it's going to be very dated very shortly.

And Joker playing Russian Roulette to play how cravy that it, didn't I just see that in a movie not that long ago?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

This book is no where near The Killing Joke, some of you need to actually read the comic instead of hype reviews.

It was an okay story that fed into fans of Nolans TDK, but more often than not kinda got stupid and tried to hard to be modern.

The great thing about Killing Joke is that it is timeless. In some respects, so is Dark Knight Returns. But in 5 years, this story will be as dated as Batman vs. Spawn. And the classic Joker-Venom-over-Knives Joker will still be around, as will the non-thug Life versions of Killer Croc, Penguin, and a Harley Quinn thats not interchangeable with the female villain from Die Hard with a Vengeance. But I didn't read anything here that was all that inventive, original, and earth shattering, other than the jokers choppy Glasgow Smile and dirty face looks closer to Heaths popular Joker take right now. Story wise, it was kind of bland, boring (maybe it was the Jonny character), and made Joker more like Hannibal Lector in some parts than well... The Joker.

But I'm not saying I'm disappointed in the story, it was a entertaining Elseworlds one shot. Just disappointed in some fans quick to call it something that it is obviously not. The best Joker story ever, and all that original.

I don't know how you can say nothing was inventive or original. The whole concept is original. Who would of thought Killer Croc would be muscle for Joker? Who knew Harley Quinn would be a mute femme fetale who has a penchant for giant bowie knives? You might not like the other interpretations but you should acknowledge that they are original.

And I don't think you can just say "In 5 years time it will be forgotten". Who knows it might be forgotten in 1 years time, or never. It's all a matter of opinion really but I just really enjoy this style comic book.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

The more I re-read it, the more the "fresh" takes on Killer Croc and Harley bug me. They could have been swapped out with a big roided out wad of Hired muscle, and a psycho stripper Mute Mallory Know character and it would not have added or taken away from the story.

Like I said, it's going to be very dated very shortly.

And Joker playing Russian Roulette to play how cravy that it, didn't I just see that in a movie not that long ago?

I didn't mean the game of Russian Roulette being original or crazy, I meant the way Joker was talking to Batman as though he is watching him is pretty cool and inventive. The whole story is about getting Batman's attention. He might be claiming he wants "his city" back but it's all to do with Batman. An interesting portrayal of their relationship in my opinion, and the overall use of Batman was bad ass.

 

[Nivek]

But it's not all that inventive or original. Killer Croc has been shown many times before as Muscle or pawn for various Batman villains (most recently Scarecrow in Batman: Gotham Knight). And this stripper mute Harley was a mix between Mallory Knox and Simon's Blond mute psycho female sidekick in Die Hard with a Vengeance.

 

[Nivek]

I didn't mean the game of Russian Roulette being original or crazy, I meant the way Joker was talking to Batman as though he is watching him is pretty cool and inventive. The whole story is about getting Batman's attention. He might be claiming he wants "his city" back but it's all to do with Batman. An interesting portrayal of their relationship in my opinion, and the overall use of Batman was bad ass.

Batman was a footnote. It's like they said at the end "Oh, lets throw Batman in". Meh.

 

[Majic Walrus]

... and how could you forget that Deebo-esq Croc?

True. He'd be nice in the Nolan-Verse too.

 

[Nivek]

True. He'd be nice in the Nolan-Verse too.

Your kidding right? He was in The Dark Knight.

 

[BubbaGump]

I wouldn't put it up there with TKJ, but it is a great GN.

You just said it was the DKR of the generation, now you're saying it's not even TKJ quality?

 

[Nivek]

I don't even think it's as good as Man who Laughs, and I wasn't too keen on that book either.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

You just said it was the DKR of the generation, now you're saying it's not even TKJ quality?

No I meant as in the way it has re-imagined the universe. I wasn't comparing the quality with TDKR just what things it's aiming for.

And Nivek, Batman wasn't just a footnote. The characters particulary Joker talk about him throughout the whole story. Thats how Batman should be portrayed when the narrative is coming from the criminal fraternity, he should just be a mythical force, he doesn't have to be shown to have a presence.

 

[ultimatefan]

This book is no where near The Killing Joke, some of you need to actually read the comic instead of hype reviews.

It was an okay story that fed into fans of Nolans TDK, but more often than not kinda got stupid and tried to hard to be modern.

The great thing about Killing Joke is that it is timeless. In some respects, so is Dark Knight Returns. But in 5 years, this story will be as dated as Batman vs. Spawn. And the classic Joker-Venom-over-Knives Joker will still be around, as will the non-thug Life versions of Killer Croc, Penguin, and a Harley Quinn thats not interchangeable with the female villain from Die Hard with a Vengeance. But I didn't read anything here that was all that inventive, original, and earth shattering, other than the jokers choppy Glasgow Smile and dirty face looks closer to Heaths popular Joker take right now. Story wise, it was kind of bland, boring (maybe it was the Jonny character), and made Joker more like Hannibal Lector in some parts than well... The Joker.

But I'm not saying I'm disappointed in the story, it was a entertaining Elseworlds one shot. Just disappointed in some fans quick to call it something that it is obviously not. The best Joker story ever, and all that original.

Quite a few aspects of DKR could be considered dated, like the references to Reagan, David Letterman (or Endochrine, in the story) being the top talk show host, the whole "satanic messages in rock songs" thing, Superman as a symbol of establishment, etc. A lot of people also talk about Miler´s Batman as being a "forced" ultraviolent/gritty interpretation and that the "true" timeless Batman is the Dennis O´Neil one.

The Kiling Joke is a fascinating story, but the idea of Joker as a victim of fate, while compeling in its own right, never seemed particularly plausible to me. I like more Alan´s "multiple choice" statement, his origin having different versions, him being an absolute, beyond explanation, like in TDK or Mad Love, or being left alone, like it is in Joker. BTW, before Joker the character has been known to use "conventional weapons" - just a gunshot to cripple Barbara? How "unimaginative", how "un-Joker"! And don´t get me started on beating Robin with a crowbar...

Pretty much nothing that´s been done with Batman in the last fifteen years or so can be called "Earth-shattering" in its freshness or originality. It´s at best good variations of existing themes and motifs.

 

[Cobblepot]

Just read it. It's a nice Joker story, but not one of the best. Hated the Riddler and disliked how Penguin was being treated.

Azzarello tried something new, it worked on the Joker but not on the entire story.

BTW, I don't believe for one bit that Bejermo drew all this before he saw TDK, just too much resemblances.

 

[deathfromabove]

The more I re-read it, the more the "fresh" takes on Killer Croc and Harley bug me. They could have been swapped out with n-name, non-continuity character created just for this book. A big roided out wad of Hired muscle, and a psycho stripper Mute Mallory Know character and it would not have added or taken away from the story.

Like I said, it's going to be very dated very shortly.

And Joker playing Russian Roulette to play how cravy that it, didn't I just see that in a movie not that long ago?

i dont see anything that will date this book. at all. the fashion, cars, and story elements werent even all that modern. a do not think a modern bmw and a hummer are going to date this.

the only thing that seemed really modern were croc and his thugs with thier timbalands and headbands, but that has been pretty standard gangsta wear for better than two decades now.

the story gave me a very seventies noir vibe.

what exactly is so dated and trendy?

 

[Drz]

Just read it. It's a nice Joker story, but not one of the best. Hated the Riddler and disliked how Penguin was being treated.

Azzarello tried something new, it worked on the Joker but not on the entire story.

BTW, I don't believe for one bit that Bejermo drew all this before he saw TDK, just too much resemblances.

Then how do you explain the illusturations he did for Batman-on-Film.com? :P Noone saw how Harvey Two-Face looked like before the film, and he had his coin mark on his scarred side which was cool. The Joker's clothing wasn't all too similiar either in the long run.

 

[CaptainClown]

TDK and this story don't seem similar at all, minus the cut smile. Even though Heath's Joker had a hole and a slash for his smile.

 

[deathfromabove]

Then how do you explain the illusturations he did for Batman-on-Film.com? :P Noone saw how Harvey Two-Face looked like before the film, and he had his coin mark on his scarred side which was cool. The Joker's clothing wasn't all too similiar either in the long run.

agreed. i think some are being purposly dense. both creators have said that the book was in the works long before he movie was.

bermejo takes a long time to draw, paint, and ink his work. the only thing that could have been really influenced by TDK was the coloring. and it clearly wasnt.

the book has been drawn for a while and it really seems to be coincidence that there are some similarities.

i mean joker doesnt look much like ledger, even the scars are drastically different. his clothing isnt all that close either.

 

[frakkingoff]

Ok, I've read it twice now, and there are some things I don't understand. Can somebody explain them to me?

-What are the Joker and Two-Face talking about (regarding marriage) in their meetup at the Zoo? By mentioning bigamy, is Joker implying Two-Face has married a second wife (beyond Gilda, Harvey Dent's wife)? Or that Dent is now "married" to the other Dent (Two-Face)? This conversation was completely beyond me...

-Do we ever find out what's IN the case that the Riddler hands off to Joker? He says "it was impossible to steal, so I stole it"...and later Joker carries it around with him. Finally, it's handed from one thug to another in the background at the showdown at the Zoo...but what exactly IS this thing that the Joker wants?

 

[agentzelda]

Ok, I've read it twice now, and there are some things I don't understand. Can somebody explain them to me?

-What are the Joker and Two-Face talking about (regarding marriage) in their meetup at the Zoo? By mentioning bigamy, is Joker implying Two-Face has married a second wife (beyond Gilda, Harvey Dent's wife)? Or that Dent is now "married" to the other Dent (Two-Face)? This conversation was completely beyond me...

-Do we ever find out what's IN the case that the Riddler hands off to Joker? He says "it was impossible to steal, so I stole it"...and later Joker carries it around with him. Finally, it's handed from one thug to another in the background at the showdown at the Zoo...but what exactly IS this thing that the Joker wants?

Perhaps there's nothing in the box; that's impossible to steal. OK: I'm being facetious.

Technically any woman married to Dent would, in the Joker's eyes, be guilty of bigamy because Dent is two people, even if those two people reside in one body (hence "the Harveys").

 

[Drz]

Maybe the thing was what could have killed Harvey Dent or Two-face? Since Joker does whisper something to Harvey which is clearly how he would kill one of them.

 

[CaptainClown]

I think it is implying that Two-face's dark side married and Joker's way of killing him was killing Two-face's wife and maybe Gilda.

As for whats in the case it is never revealed but not really relevant to the story.

 

[frakkingoff]

Technically any woman married to Dent would, in the Joker's eyes, be guilty of bigamy because Dent is two people, even if those two people reside in one body (hence "the Harveys").

It's possible, but if that's the case, wouldn't Gilda be the one who was guilty of a crime (bigamy), not Dent?

I really got the feeling Joker was pointing out Dent's indiscretions. "There's a lot of things people in our positions can get away with...murder being one...WIVES ain't two of them."

Dent's the murderer (not Gilda, except via TLH, but Joker doesn't know about that and I don't think that's what's being referenced.). Also, "wives" is in plural.

Joker's next line: "Bigamy is like tax evasion. Once a prosecutor has a crime he can try in the public eye..."

A reference to Al Capone (busted not for being a gangster, but for tax evasion) - Joker's suggesting that the justice system can't target Dent for being the mob boss of Gotham, but they could get him for HIS bigamy.





Incidentally, Dent later says "Loves a funny thing. Funnier than YOU'LL [Joker will] ever be. I knew there was a chance this could happen...That his [Dent's] happiness could be compromised...So I made certain it COULDN'T. I have a man on speed dial will make EVERYTHING in that case there disappear."

(Sorry for the bracketing confusion...those lines start off being told by Dent, then by Two-Face, then Dent again at the end).

I think the implication is that Dent's happiness is somehow related to the marriage issues - and that whatever is in the case is related (if not, it's still probably something damning that can bring Dent down) and can be used against him. But what could be "impossible to steal" in that case that's related to Dent's supposed marriage issues? Certainly not marriage licenses or court documents - why would they be "impossible to steal?" And how can a man on speed dial make them disappear?

I don't understand the marriage issues are being discussed. Nor do I understand what's in the case (though clearly Dent's very concerned about it). Or how it could be made to instantly disappear with a phone call.

 

[frakkingoff]

Maybe the thing was what could have killed Harvey Dent or Two-face? Since Joker does whisper something to Harvey which is clearly how he would kill one of them.

I thought about that, but I'm not so sure - I think Joker's statement that he could kill ONE of the Harvey's is just a threat used to shake Dent down to the core.

What's the one thing that would freak Dent out? Having one of his selves killed, but NOT the other, so that he'd only have one left to live with (no more choice dictated by a coin). The implication that Joker's threat makes is that he can remove one Harvey, without destroying the other.

I mean, anyone could kill Dent - put a bullet in his brain. But that would kill both Harveys. Joker's threat is that he's figured out a way to murder one of them (stressed again that it's the two Harvey's being talked about when Dent meets Batman).

As for whats in the case it is never revealed but not really relevant to the story

I disagree - Dent's threat to have the contents of the case disappeared suggests that the contents are leverage that can be used against Dent in Joker's final bid for control of Gotham, and that Dent is very worried about it, from the get-go. So I think it's very relevant.