LEONARDO vs. RAPHAEL

[November Rain]

vader is a turd fighter.

these are two brothers in the heat of an argument, right up until their weapons clash, it's all equal and they are both going for one another.

but then again, raph was wearing armour so...

 

[November Rain]

to be fair, i don't even think what raph did was that bad, leo went for his head seconds earlier to be fair.

the only thing that raph did was let his anger take control and attempt to take out an unarmed person in battle but it's not like leo had to yell stop or anything, raph, purposely missed his sais killing leo...

 

[ihateusernames]

easy way to solve this.
Raph won the physical fight, but Leo won the mental one.

Do we really need to debate this to hell and back? The scene and events that happened, happened for a reason, to progress a story.

 

[AmaznSpider-Fan]

I was thinking the same thing, and I think it's objective enough that it can go either way.

I think that Leo had a lot against him, just realizing that Ralph was the Nightwatcher. With that said, I think Leo did it to prove a point.

This was by far my favorite part of the movie and that scene looks absolutely brilliant in high def.

 

[bullets]

its the best scene in the movie

 

[terry78]

I don't think either of them had the intention of killing each other obviously, they just had points to prove. If Raphael had seriously hurt Leonardo, it would've crossed the line.

 

[LostSon88]

Rewatching the fight on my dvd, i'd say that although they were'nt out to kill each other, they definately wanted to do some sort of damage to one another.

You know how it is when brothers fight...we're never out to kill the other, we just want to get our point across that we're better than you...while using our fists.

 

[larryfilmmaker]

Rewatching the fight on my dvd, i'd say that although they were'nt out to kill each other, they definately wanted to do some sort of damage to one another.

You know how it is when brothers fight...we're never out to kill the other, we just want to get our point across that we're better than you...while using our fists.

Yeha but Raph DID have that intention and that's why he realized how screwed up he was.

 

[Spider-Jay]

As others have said, I'd have to go with Raph "winning" the fight if you will.

Throughout TMNT history we always knew Leo was the best fighter. And he is. Period.

We also saw that Raph was the strongest and always felt he should have been the leader of the team. We always knew he was inferior, but he himself never believed that because of his ego.

THAT'S WHY THIS SCENE IS SO MASTERFULLY DONE.

Raph, for once, proved to himself and to us that he could beat Leo and he did. But as soon as he did, he realized why he should not be the leader. Leo fights with patience and skill while Raph fights on emotion and strength. In his rage, Raph almost hurt his very own brother. Ultimately his actions are what caused Leo's capture and that's why we later see him going all out to save him later on.

That's what was so beautiful about the scene. Raph won, but the victory he longed for all his life to prove he should be the leader instead proved why he shouldn't be the leader.

Which is why I found Raph to be the best character in this movie.

Conclusion: Raph won but learned why he shouldn't be leader.

Done.

 

[larryfilmmaker]

Well, let me tell you why that was all masterfully done for a minute or two before dropping into nothingness.

Raph had an entire movie to himself, with only Leo coming close. He learned a valuable lesson when he pinned Leonardo. He learned that he wasn't cut out to be leader like Leo is, and he finally understood why Splinter chose Leo as the best. He realized his role as a family member, as part of a team, not as the loud mouth rebel leader, but as part of a unit.

Then something terrible happened. Raph became leader. He was even offered a position on the enemy team during the battle because of how well he fought. He said "I'm gonna need you to lead us out of here" to Leonardo, but the camera stayed on Raph. It was awful storytelling and it was clear that the filmmakers just couldn't let go. They have their favorite turtle, they've designed him to BE the favorite turtle among fans, and they refuse to allow anything else. Raph learned a powerful lesson... for all of two minutes. Hell, he even had the closing narration and line. I was irritated with how close the movie came to being emotional before falling back into mediocrity.

 

[terry78]

^He basically is Wolverine. That's already been established.

 

[LostSon88]

He said "I'm gonna need you to lead us out of here" to Leonardo, but the camera stayed on Raph.

Actually the line was, "You're gonna need these if you're gonna lead us."-referring to the katanas Casey brought.

And Leo responded with, "I'm gonna need you too."

Raph was talking about the katanas, not himself.

And are you sure you wearn't watching a Full screen version of the film? Because if memory serves me right, BOTH turtles were on screen during that exchange of dialogue. Neither Raph nor Leo was favored in that paticular shot.

 

[Spider-Jay]

Although MichaelAngelo is my personal favourite, I don't mind the directors focusing on Raph.

He is the most complex, disturbed turtle. Which is also probably why he is the favourite among fans.

 

[terry78]

^Because he's so much like them.

 

[TNC9852002]

I think I'm gonna have to buy TMNT...After a few months, the movie has sunked in and I'd say it's worthy of a Blu-ray purchase.

This Leo vs Raph thing reminds me a lot of the Cyclops vs Wolverine argument.

-TNC

 

[larryfilmmaker]

And are you sure you wearn't watching a Full screen version of the film? Because if memory serves me right, BOTH turtles were on screen during that exchange of dialogue. Neither Raph nor Leo was favored in that paticular shot.

Not the shot, I'm saying Raph was still the focus even after "giving leadership" back to Leo. Leo never felt like the leader one single time after the Leo/Raph fight.

 

[larryfilmmaker]

He is the most complex, disturbed turtle.

I agree he is, but he doesn't have to be. Everybody has a story worth telling and issues worth exploring. It's just that young, male audiences are attracted to the rebels. I'd like to hear what Leo thought of the Leo/Raph fight ya know? What does Mikey think about being treated like a baby or is Donny ever allowed to lose his temper too or is that reserved just for Raph? The other three were 1 dimensional so that Raph could have and express every emotion.

 

[terry78]

I think they tend to make Michelangelo and Donatello one dimensional when they're not. Mikey is the slacker/stoner spouting off pop culture and quips, Donny is the geeky brain only into technology and solving things without his fists if neccessary. Leo and Raph are the two emo/tortured soul ones, hence they get more screen time and interest.

 

[November Rain]

a coming of age story for mikey wouldn't be so bad, a story where he ultimately realises his potential as being the most naturally gifted turtle and defeating a foe where the others have ultimately failed at doing so

 

[Darkness Falls]

the fight was really powerfull
it reminds me of the anakin vs obi wan duel in ep3

but i think leo trying to piss raph off
he was mocking him
then he says "...More importantly i'm better than you"

I tend to agree with raph's view that leo came back and expected them to fall in line like his soldiers

 

[terry78]

the fight was really powerfull
it reminds me of the anakin vs obi wan duel in ep3

but i think leo trying to piss raph off
he was mocking him
then he says "...More importantly i'm better than you"

I tend to agree with raph's view that leo came back and expected them to fall in line like his soldiers

That's what he's supposed to do. He's the leader of the team. Splinter's decisions are what he has to follow.

 

[oceor]

I think both won their own battles. Leo wanted raph realized his bad behavior.
And Raph wanted win this fight against Leo.



Here goes really who would win.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caG5OK7DWS4

Sorry to revive a so so so old post.