Lets settle this: Avengers movie - Avengers or Ultimates based?

[Cyrusbales]

I do read the ultimates, BUT I love Sentry as a character, so leaning towards 'new avengers' rather than ultimates would be better. Also having seen the ultimates avengers animated film, I want them to do something more classic! (the whole hulk picking up thor's hammer is SILLY, and makes hulk fanboys even more intollerable!)

 

[Canadian Rider]

Ghost Rider took Thor's hammer and used it against him.

'Nuff said.

64 to go

 

[CaptainCanada]

Avengers, easily. Whatever the plusses of the Ultimates, they're a band of purposefully-thuggish brutes, not heroes (the contrast is particularly glaring between Cap and Ultimate Cap).

 

[Savage]

Hey, in the end they save the day. They save lives. They're heroes. ...Even if literally half the time they're their own worst enemies.

 

[CaptainCanada]

The comics have a cool quality, to be sure, but it's all Jerry Bruckheimer stuff. The Ultimates never refute the arguments of their opponents, they just win through overwhelming force, and that's just not the Avengers in any real form.

Moreover, and this is my other big problem, a lot of the characters are just their 616 counterparts with their most stereotyped personality trait dialed up to eleven. 616-Yellowjacket once hit his wife in a fight, so Ulti-Giant-Man is a vicious, repeat abuser, for example. The most criminal case is with Ulti-Cap, who is the thuggish uber-patriot that 616-Cap is always caricatured as by people who know nothing about him.

 

[Savage]

But you see, I like that about them. They are a sharp contrast to the rest of the Ultimate Universe. They are the EXACT opposite of the X-men. Here you have this family that works together pretty well but is feared and hated by the general public. The Ultimates are loved by the public. They're the posterguys for America. They're mascots. And then once you meet em in person you're severely dissapointed (that celebrity aspect kicking in). These guys have very little that is likeable about them and hell, they agree. It's hard for them to even get along. The only thing they have in common is that they want to help people...I dig it. It's like finding out Brad Pritt smokes crack in his free time. lol

Everybody has their good parts though. Even Hank Pym. These guys feel like genuine human beings who just happen to have powers. They have flaws. Serious flaws. But they're no different than anyone else. My favorite parts of the book are usually more character driven moments like Tony's dinner with Thor and Cap.

 

[Iceburgeruk]

But you see, I like that about them. They are a sharp contrast to the rest of the Ultimate Universe. They are the EXACT opposite of the X-men. Here you have this family that works together pretty well but is feared and hated by the general public. The Ultimates are loved by the public. They're the posterguys for America. They're mascots. And then once you meet em in person you're severely dissapointed (that celebrity aspect kicking in). These guys have very little that is likeable about them and hell, they agree. It's hard for them to even get along. The only thing they have in common is that they want to help people...I dig it. It's like finding out Brad Pritt smokes crack in his free time. lol

Everybody has their good parts though. Even Hank Pym. These guys feel like genuine human beings who just happen to have powers. They have flaws. Serious flaws. But they're no different than anyone else. My favorite parts of the book are usually more character driven moments like Tony's dinner with Thor and Cap.

The avengers feel like genuine human beings as well, genuine noble human beings instead of genuine jerks.

 

[Savage]

Double Post

 

[Savage]

I know but it's different. To me the regular Avengers are like...Santa. Or the Power Rangers to people. The Ultimates are more like the guys you'd see on E's True Hollywood Story.

 

[Chris Wallace]

But you want to LIKE superheroes, not just what they do. With real world celebrities, you can meet the person & be so disappointed/disenchanted, you're unable to enjoy their music, movies, etc. anymore. The Avengers are a team of heroes. You should cheer them both for saving the day & being so classy about it.

 

[Savage]

And that's why I like the Avengers too. I consider them different characters altogether really. I find the Ultimates interesting as characters, not as heroes. Someone made a pretty accurate comparison when comparing the book to a Jerry Brucheimer movie. It's a character driven book with action in it. It's not a superhero book like say Ultimate Spider-man or Fantastic Four. That's not the focus. They don't need a fight every issue. At least not until Loeb comes onboard.

Like I said earlier. They serve as a sharp contrast to the rest of the Ultimate Universe and pretty much goes against the grain, basicly saying that just because these people do good things, that does not make them good people. I like that. In the regular 616 you expect every hero to help the old woman with her groceries up the stairs but in Ultimate you can expect someone like Hank Pym to go right past her and say "busy".

Someone mentioned turning up certain parts of the characters up to 11? Well don't you think that makes sense? I mean the way 616 dealt with Captain America adjusting to today was basicly "Colored televisions?! What a zany place!" while Ultimate is literally taking a guy from a time that worked so different, which handled things so differently and handled different things, and putting him in our time. Taking a shark and putting it in a lake. Not much different from taking a caveman and putting him here and he smashes everything that confuses him. Only reacting in the way he's used to. Or Hank Pym not beating his wife only once but repeatedly. Unfortunately it's actually very rare that a wife beater does it once like they're just trying it out or something. Chances are once they start, they keep going.

This post was way longer than I meant it to be. Anyway, I like the focus on the people and not the heroes. Focusing on just how severely different these people really are and that it's a miracle they can even work together.

 

[Chris Wallace]

That can happen WITHOUT them being jerks, though. I'm reminded of a Justice League episode in which Grodd telepathically ramped up the latent hostilities within the individual members to get them fighting amongst themselves. The FF have a similar "we get on each others' nerves but still stick together" dynamic.
All I'm saying is that they don't have to be complete @$$holes to be believable.

 

[Savage]

I get that. I don't think it's about believability though. It's just ironic that these guys of all people are the *******s. The X-men are supposed to be the mutant scum and Spider-man is suppsoed to be a menace to society and they're the nicest people you'd ever meet. Then you meet the Ultimates and they're like "F**k off! Can't you see we're busy?!". It's just the dynamic of the Ultimate Universe. That while guys like X-men and Fantastic Four seem to get along 90% of the time and argue 10%, it's the exact opposite for the Ultimats. I mean I don't remember the X-men having to take Wolverine down or anything.

I just find it funny that in 616 it's "You're a superhero?! I'm a superhero! Let's be friends!" while the Ultimate universe totally removes that. Daredevil clearly has anger management issues and seems to go into an uncontrollable rage when he sees Spider-man, the Ultimates pretty much roll their eyes when they even hear they have to work together, and I like that. It removes the old comic book rule that everyone who wears tights automatically work together. 616 has a superhero community. Ultimate really doesn't. Everybody's doing their own thing.

I'm honestly suprised it took this long for Iron Man and Cap to beat the crap out of each other in 616.

 

[Spider - Man]

I get that. I don't think it's about believability though. It's just ironic that these guys of all people are the *******s. The X-men are supposed to be the mutant scum and Spider-man is suppsoed to be a menace to society and they're the nicest people you'd ever meet. Then you meet the Ultimates and they're like "F**k off! Can't you see we're busy?!". It's just the dynamic of the Ultimate Universe. That while guys like X-men and Fantastic Four seem to get along 90% of the time and argue 10%, it's the exact opposite for the Ultimats. I mean I don't remember the X-men having to take Wolverine down or anything.

I just find it funny that in 616 it's "You're a superhero?! I'm a superhero! Let's be friends!" while the Ultimate universe totally removes that. Daredevil clearly has anger management issues and seems to go into an uncontrollable rage when he sees Spider-man, the Ultimates pretty much roll their eyes when they even hear they have to work together, and I like that. It removes the old comic book rule that everyone who wears tights automatically work together. 616 has a superhero community. Ultimate really doesn't. Everybody's doing their own thing.

I'm honestly suprised it took this long for Iron Man and Cap to beat the crap out of each other in 616.

I can deal with the ******* attitudes in Ultimates, if not necessarily like them, but for me, if the A team gets 1 shot at the big screen, I wanna see them together as in the 616 universe. Not as realistic? That's ok. I get enough real life in, uh...real life.
I like to think that there is a bond that unites these people. They know they are unique. They are probably the greatest elite group in the world. There are only 5 of them (in their mpvie universe). This makes them more of an oddity than rock stars, millionaires, anybody. I would think this would tend to draw them together (as in 616) rather than push them apart. I actually think that in that respect, 616 Avengers is MORE real life than the Ultimates.

 

[Sawyer]

Avengers based, but with Ultimates costumes.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Original Avengers.

I dont want to see a live action movie of Ultimate ANYTHING.

If Story puts that "collective insect" garbage for his version of Galactus in next year's FF sequel, my head will explode.

 

[Red Mask]

Avengers!

No Cyber Frogface.
No Giant Jump Suit-Man.
No Blue-balded Dominator.

 

[Ben Urich]

Avengers. Let the kiddie animated direct-to-DVD releases be Ultimates-based.

Do the ultimates have a punchy battlecry?

"Ultimates Murder Indiscriminately!!" lol

"American Imperilaism AWAAAAAAAAY!!!" lol

haha t:

 

[Rez]

Definately The Ultimates. The 11 issues(with Issues 1 being the captain America movie, more or less) scream to be on the screen. I might even go so far as saying that it would work even better on screen than in the comics.

And I really want to see them as 3 films(Ultimates 1, Ultimates 2, and Ultimates 3) just so I can have a live action version of Hawkeye killing everyone in a room with his fingernails. Most badass moment ever.

 

[Savage]

There's 24 issues so far altogether actually but I see where you're going with this. It would be pretty cool and it writes itself.

I'd like to see something similar to Ultimate Avengers though. Best of both worlds.

 

[Spider - Man]

Avengers based, but with Ultimates costumes.

Ultimate Cap I can maybe see (not the helmet, though) being less silly looking than 616 outfit for film and maybe Ult. Thor costume would look better for the screen than 616 version (don't know how the cape would work!). But I don't wanna see Ultimate IM (I don't think I need to worry as Favreau isnt using Ult. IM design) and I DEFINITELY dont want ult Giant man costume (UGH!!!)

I AM NOT saying my above statements about Cap and Thor's costumes are 100% accurate. Maybe 616 versions WOULD look cool. I just don't know. Actually, in the horrendous Cap movie from '91, the costume looked ok. If they had someone who filled it out better, something like that would probably look great!

 

[Savage]

I can see all of the Ultimate costumes working really. Would just prefer their 616 costumes.

Giant Man they'd have to be pretty creative for. All of his costumes suck. With Ultimate though, it'd work because it works with the whole look the team has.

 

[Spade]

I sort of want it to be the Ultimates, just so that people can see what's happened to their favorite comic book characters while everyone has been ignoring Marvel's actions for the past decade.

 

[Red Mask]

I can see all of the Ultimate costumes working really. Would just prefer their 616 costumes.

Giant Man they'd have to be pretty creative for. All of his costumes suck. With Ultimate though, it'd work because it works with the whole look the team has.

Yeah.

No Cyber Frogface.
No Giant Jump Suit-Man.
No Blue-Balded Dominator.

 

[Rez]

There's 24 issues so far altogether actually but I see where you're going with this. It would be pretty cool and it writes itself.

I'd like to see something similar to Ultimate Avengers though. Best of both worlds.

Yeah, I know. But 12 of those issues are Ultimates 2 Which, much to my dismay, are 10 times cooler than the first 12 issues, something I didn't think was possible.