Lets settle this: Avengers movie - Avengers or Ultimates based?

[Savage]

If The Avengers wre done like Fantastic Four, I'd get the strong urge to set things on fire.

Why? I know that may be a stupid question but it seems like the right tone for an Avengers movie. Earth's mightiest heroes coming together. You're supposed to feel like a giddy kid inside seeing these guys work together. Just my opinion but I think an Avengers movie should have a tone like Spider-man or Fantastic Four and less like say X-men or Hulk.

 

[The Question]

Why?

Let's see:

Bad jokes.

Completely bastardizing on of the most well developed and simple to pull off vilains in Marvel.

The team never actually did anything even remotely Fantastic Four like.

Instead of having actual character developement, they had a five minute comedy montage in the middle.

The best thing about that movie was Willie Lumpkins. Of course, since Lumpkins is such a stone cold badass, that ain't hard.

I know that may be a stupid question but it seems like the right tone for an Avengers movie. Earth's mightiest heroes coming together. You're supposed to feel like a giddy kid inside seeing these guys work together. Just my opinion but I think an Avengers movie should have a tone like Spider-man or Fantastic Four and less like say X-men or Hulk.

The tone for the FF film was completely tung in cheek crap. The tone for The Avengers should actually be good. Way I see it, it should be like a James Cameron flick. Crap loads of action, some deep parts, and even a good bit of humor thrown in now and then. But not the camp fest that was Fantastic Four.

 

[Noir]

The tone for the FF film was completely tung in cheek crap. The tone for The Avengers should actually be good. Way I see it, it should be like a James Cameron flick. Crap loads of action, some deep parts, and even a good bit of humor thrown in now and then. But not the camp fest that was Fantastic Four.

How was the FF campy?
The only campy things I heard were from Johnny and last time I checked..
JOHNNY WAS A COCKY LITTLE CAMPFEST.
or at least Ultimate Johnny..

 

[The Question]

How was the FF campy?

Five minute comedy montage.

"Marco polo."

The fact that Sue had to take her clothes off to be invisible.

The skiing bit.

The motocrossed bit.

Pretty much every joke in the movie.

The only campy things I heard were from Johnny and last time I checked..
JOHNNY WAS A COCKY LITTLE CAMPFEST.
or at least Ultimate Johnny..

Johnny isn't a "campfest." He's an arrogant jerk, but that's not campy. That's being an arrogant jerk.

 

[IKnowSomeJudo]

I'd like to see an Ultimates movie, but with a 616-esque Captain America instead of the Ultimate Captain *****ebag. I'd like to see at least one hero in the movie that isn't a despicable human being. It would provide a better contrast between the characters.

 

[The Question]

I'd like to see an Ultimates movie, but with a 616-esque Captain America instead of the Ultimate Captain *****ebag. I'd like to see at least one hero in the movie that isn't a despicable human being. It would provide a better contrast between the characters.

Ultimate Cap isn't that bad. He's certainly more flawed than 616 Cap, but at his core he is a truely good person. He's just going up against situations that he has no idea as to how to deal with properly,a dnso he deals with them the way he dealt with the Nazis: Go in kickin' ass and assume that you're right.

 

[Savage]

Let's see:

Bad jokes.

Completely bastardizing on of the most well developed and simple to pull off vilains in Marvel.

The team never actually did anything even remotely Fantastic Four like.

Instead of having actual character developement, they had a five minute comedy montage in the middle.

The best thing about that movie was Willie Lumpkins. Of course, since Lumpkins is such a stone cold badass, that ain't hard.



The tone for the FF film was completely tung in cheek crap. The tone for The Avengers should actually be good. Way I see it, it should be like a James Cameron flick. Crap loads of action, some deep parts, and even a good bit of humor thrown in now and then. But not the camp fest that was Fantastic Four.

Maybe it's just me but I always considered the Fantastic Four campy characters to begin with. That's why I liked the movie. Brainless fun. I even compare it to Power Rangers: The Movie quite a lot. To me the Fantastic Four was always about spectacle. I mean look at how the subject of them being celebreties is dealt with and compare it to how it's dealt with in The Ultimates...Maybe it's just me. I never took the Fantastic Four seriously so I thought what the movie did was a pretty accurate depiction.

As for Doom, I just considered him a mix of both 616 and Ultimate. I was satisfied with him as a character and didn't think too much about "comic Doom wouldn't do that!".

Anyway, I was only refering to tone. Not story and characterization. Just the fun of it.

 

[The Question]

Maybe it's just me but I always considered the Fantastic Four campy characters to begin with. That's why I liked the movie. Brainless fun. I even compare it to Power Rangers: The Movie quite a lot. To me the Fantastic Four was always about spectacle. I mean look at how the subject of them being celebreties is dealt with and compare it to how it's dealt with in The Ultimates...Maybe it's just me. I never took the Fantastic Four seriously so I thought what the movie did was a pretty accurate depiction.

You compare the FF to the Power Rangers. Possitively. I'm sorry, but I must say that you're wrong. Not that I think you're wrong, but that you are, actually and factually, wrong. And the movie was most certianly NOT an acurrate depiction. Campy and brainless fun are not things to strive for. Especially with the FF. Yes, they're supposed to be intertaining. But campy and brainless fun is just so very insulting to the characters.

As for Doom, I just considered him a mix of both 616 and Ultimate. I was satisfied with him as a character and didn't think too much about "comic Doom wouldn't do that!".

It was not a mix of 616 and Ultimate. The only thing resembling Ultimate was that he got powers from the same accident that gave the FF theirs. Besides from that, he was a completely reinvented and watered down character.

 

[Savage]

Well that's your opinion but I've always thought of the Fantastic Four comic and the characters in it is as lighthearted fun. Just Fantastic and totally out there things. I wouldn't compare it to books like that of The X-men and that's because I view them totally differently. The Fantastic Four fight giant, Godzilla-like mole creatures. They confront intergalactic beings. When I think of the Fantastic Four, I think of Flash Gordon and Lost in Space and the like. To me comparing them to the Power Rangers always seemed right (not just because of the matching tights) because of just how...for lack of a better term, "white-bread" and almost corney they are. When I think of them, I think "Don't fear. The Fantastic Four are here!" and I like that. I liked that the movie didn't take them too seriously and pretty much made them guys you can easily picture on a lunchbox or with happy meal toys.

I'd freak if the X-men were treated like this of course but for the Fantastic Four it always felt right to me.

As for Doom, how was he any more watered down than Ultimate Doom (in his first appearance)?

 

[The Question]

Well that's your opinion but I've always thought of the Fantastic Four comic and the characters in it is as lighthearted fun. Just Fantastic and totally out there things. I wouldn't compare it to books like that of The X-men and that's because I view them totally differently. The Fantastic Four fight giant, Godzilla-like mole creatures. They confront intergalactic beings. When I think of the Fantastic Four, I think of Flash Gordon and Lost in Space and the like. To me comparing them to the Power Rangers always seemed right (not just because of the matching tights) because of just how...for lack of a better term, "white-bread" and almost corney they are. When I think of them, I think "Don't fear. The Fantastic Four are here!" and I like that. I liked that the movie didn't take them too seriously and pretty much made them guys you can easily picture on a lunchbox or with happy meal toys.

There is a very strong difference between "out there" and "campy." Comparing them to Flash Gordon, I can understand. I tend to see the styles of their plots as remenicent of Doc Savage myself. But I'll say it again: Comparing them to the Power Rangers is so horribly insulting that had I the authority I would ban you from reading or veiwing anything regarding the Fantastic Four ever again. I know, it sounds harsh, but I just feel that strongly about how much this movie sucked ass.

As for Doom, how was he any more watered down than Ultimate Doom (in his first appearance)?

He was watered down for Doom in general. He was a complete shell of a character. And while Ultimate Doom wasn't as good as 616, he was still ten times the character as movie Doom.


Also, I only brought up Ultimate Doom as to mention how dissimilar he and movie Doom are. There's only one similarity between them.


EDIT: Also, if I am coming of strong, be warned: I had a bad day at work and some of this is me venting.

 

[Savage]

Ah. Well it's alright then. I just always viewed Fantastic Four as such an extreme on the other side in comparison to other teams. To me these characters were made for the kids as opposed to guys like The Punisher and Daredevil. To me Fantastic Four was very much a kids movie and I could not help but draw comparisons to Power Rangers...Do you really hate the Power Rangers that much? I mean I still watch the movie every now and then so I guess that's why I see it as a positive...I even have my Marvel movies arranged based on the extremes in nature on my shelf (Ultimate Avengers 1-2,Fantastic Four, Spider-man 1 and 2, Hulk, X-men 1-3, Daredevil T + DC, The Punisher, Blade 1-3).

I just always thought of the Fantastic Four as the more cheesy, cartoony, campy characters of marvel who were made specifically for the kids.

On Doom-watered down or not, I liked the character and I see hope for making him more traditional. As if to say the seeds were planted...IMO the only difference between his first fight with the fantastic four in the movie and in Ultimate are the powers he uses and the fact that he already practically had his own country in the comic.

 

[The Question]

Ah. Well it's alright then. I just always viewed Fantastic Four as such an extreme on the other side in comparison to other teams. To me these characters were made for the kids as opposed to guys like The Punisher and Daredevil. To me Fantastic Four was very much a kids movie and I could not help but draw comparisons to Power Rangers...Do you really hate the Power Rangers that much? I mean I still watch the movie every now and then so I guess that's why I see it as a positive...I even have my Marvel movies arranged based on the extremes in nature on my shelf (Ultimate Avengers 1-2,Fantastic Four, Spider-man 1 and 2, Hulk, X-men 1-3, Daredevil T + DC, The Punisher, Blade 1-3).

I don't hate the Power Rangers on principal. I just despise the show's vast amounts of wasted potential and horrible horrible cheesy comedy. It's fun to watch, but in a MST3K way, not in any way that is complimentary to the show.

I just always thought of the Fantastic Four as the more cheesy, cartoony, campy characters of marvel who were made specifically for the kids.

And you're wrong. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to agree to disagree here. While yes, there are different opinions in the world, in this case, your opinion is incorrect. You're wrong, and I'm really really tired and cranky from spending two thirds of a 24 hour period at a crappy job during the holidays when I have better things to do.

On Doom-watered down or not, I liked the character and I see hope for making him more traditional. As if to say the seeds were planted...IMO the only difference between his first fight with the fantastic four in the movie and in Ultimate are the powers he uses and the fact that he already practically had his own country in the comic.

Plus the fact that there were no similiarities between movie Doom and either comic version of the character. The motives, origins, and overall personality were completely different. In short, movie Doom was not Doom. He was Green Goblin + Collosus + Electro X suck to the tencth power.

 

[Savage]

lol. Hey, I'll give you this one since you had a hard day and I don't want to piss you off any more than you are.

 

[The Question]

lol. Hey, I'll give you this one since you had a hard day and I don't want to piss you off any more than you are.

Sorry I've been so overbearing with this. I just think that cheesey and campy are not what the FF are supposed to be.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I'd say mostly Avengers based, but with some elements of the Ultimates in the movie.

 

[Noir]

Sorry I've been so overbearing with this. I just think that cheesey and campy are not what the FF are supposed to be.

I'd say the Fantastic Four or atleast the Ultimate Fantastic Four are campy at times.. they have momments of campyness..

I mean for christshake they named there N-Zone exploration vehicle the USS Awesome..

 

[The Question]

I'd say the Fantastic Four or atleast the Ultimate Fantastic Four are campy at times.. they have momments of campyness..

Ultimate FF isn't campy at all.

I mean for christshake they named there N-Zone exploration vehicle the USS Awesome..

Johnny did that. Because he's an idiot. That's not campy, that's just a joke. There's a difference.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I'd say mostly Avengers based, but with some elements of the Ultimates in the movie.

Depends on which elements you have in mind.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Depends on which elements you have in mind.

None of that Cap fought aliens in WWII stuff. However, I'd say the idea of the team being formed by the gov't because of the emergence of super powered individuals would be a good starting point.

 

[Chris Wallace]

See, I'd rather they weren't put together by the government. I want the Avengers to be depicted as a superhero team rather than a military unit. I want them to functin & disfunction of their own accord & not be under anyone else's orders.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think it would be an easier way to bring the team together.

 

[Savage]

Easier but not better. I think fate and circumstance bringing them together works just fine. That way they're not compared to X-men or even The Fantastic Four. Got enough uniformed hero teams. Their individual movies are already going to establish them as great heroes. This movie is just going to bring these Titans together (before a Justice League movie is even made).

 

[The Question]

Easier but not better. I think fate and circumstance bringing them together works just fine. That way they're not compared to X-men or even The Fantastic Four. Got enough uniformed hero teams. Their individual movies are already going to establish them as great heroes. This movie is just going to bring these Titans together (before a Justice League movie is even made).

Who said they had to be uniformed if the government brought them together? Really, I just think it would make the story much easier. Having a bunch of heroes get together and just decide to team up would be rather akward, writing wise, in a live action film.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Easier but not better. I think fate and circumstance bringing them together works just fine. That way they're not compared to X-men or even The Fantastic Four. Got enough uniformed hero teams. Their individual movies are already going to establish them as great heroes. This movie is just going to bring these Titans together (before a Justice League movie is even made).

What? They wouldn't wear the same uniforms. The League of Extraordinary Gentleman didn't, and I see them more like that in group look (although in a better movie). Also, the gov't had NOTHING to do with the forming of the X-Men or the FF in the movies. In fact, fate brought THOSE teams together (four people just happen to be in space at the same time, a whole bunch of runaway mutants found a rich guys mansion and formed a team). It is easier to bring the team together by having the gov't responsible.

 

[Savage]

Eh. Still not a fan of the idea. I like it when the Avengers operate independently (so to speak). Just a group of heroes joining forces to do what's right. I think Thor bringing them together to take down Loki would work pretty nicely. Maybe some kind of collaberation between him and the Red Skull involving the Cosmic Cube.

I know the government didn't bring together the Fantastic Four and X-men but what I mean is they seemed more official, organized, and uniformed (don't mean literally by the way). I'd like the Avengers to be more like just a group of the big shots pulled together by an event that involves all of them as key players. Less like "Welcome to The Avengers" and more like "We need a name. Avengers sound good to you?"(I hope this actually isn't said. lol). And I know the Fantastic Four was like that but that's a group of friends and family members. The Avengers need to be different from all of that.

But hey, why am I going on about this? I'd really be fine with either one.