Lets settle this: Avengers movie - Avengers or Ultimates based?

[The Question]

Well, it doesn't necessairily have to be a super formal government thing. Iron Man, who even early on was considered a sort of unnofficial government operative (since as Tony Stark he already worked for the government and the official story was that he worked for a guy who worked for the government), you could have some sort of problem that Iron Man and Cap go to deal with, and then Tony ends up bringing the team together out of necessity. Sort of a mix of the two ideas.

 

[Savage]

That works actually. Yeah. In all honesty, a situation like the one in Ultimate Avengers works just fine. At least there was a threat that forced them to bring these guys in as opposed to in the Ultimates where it was half publicity stunt and half knee jerk reaction.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Well, it doesn't necessairily have to be a super formal government thing. Iron Man, who even early on was considered a sort of unnofficial government operative (since as Tony Stark he already worked for the government and the official story was that he worked for a guy who worked for the government), you could have some sort of problem that Iron Man and Cap go to deal with, and then Tony ends up bringing the team together out of necessity. Sort of a mix of the two ideas.

I like that. I just don't want Cap to be anyone's direct subordinate.

 

[The Question]

I like that. I just don't want Cap to be anyone's direct subordinate.

Well, Cap is alot of people's direct subordinate. He's special ops for the military (or at least was until Civil War). Way I see it, he's the field leader and Tony's the diplomat who keeps the guys in the suits happy.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Well, Cap is alot of people's direct subordinate. He's special ops for the military (or at least was until Civil War). Way I see it, he's the field leader and Tony's the diplomat who keeps the guys in the suits happy.

Yeah. Maybe I'm phrasing it wrong. I just want the Avengers to feel more like a team of superheroes & less like Special Forces. Cap's the only one who's ever served in the military, so the rest of them shouldn't be treated like troops. I liked the setup in the Justice League animated pilot; start off w/the heroes we're familiar with & bring in the others through the crisis. I want it to be something like that, w/the government's involvement kept to a minimum.

 

[The Question]

Yeah. Maybe I'm phrasing it wrong. I just want the Avengers to feel more like a team of superheroes & less like Special Forces. Cap's the only one who's ever served in the military, so the rest of them shouldn't be treated like troops. I liked the setup in the Justice League animated pilot; start off w/the heroes we're familiar with & bring in the others through the crisis. I want it to be something like that, w/the government's involvement kept to a minimum.

Well, the government has always had a rather strong involvement with The Avengers. Up until New Avengers, they had people from the defense department sitting in on their meetings. Also, the defense department and department of homeland security had a say in their roster changes.

 

[3dman27]

this goverment liasion thing started in the 80's as a subplot

 

[The Question]

this goverment liasion thing started in the 80's as a subplot

I thought it started sooner than that. No matter. It's still been apart of The Avengers for a while.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

I say just make an Ultimates movie, none of that Ultimate Avengers crap like the cartoon.

 

[Death or Glory9]

As much as I love the Avengers, I'd have to say go with the Ultimates comics.
They are more down to earth and are much better suited for our world now.
And have Sam Jackson as Nick Fury ; )
That would rock.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I thought comic books & movies were supposed to-at least to an extent-be an ESCAPE from our world.

 

[Death or Glory9]

I thought comic books & movies were supposed to-at least to an extent-be an ESCAPE from our world.

That is true, but at the same time it's better if a movie is brought to a more down to earth tone.
Batman Begins and Casino Royale for instance.
Much more down to earth, much more exciting.

 

[Spider-Fan]

That is true, but at the same time it's better if a movie is brought to a more down to earth tone.
Batman Begins and Casino Royale for instance.
Much more down to earth, much more exciting.

You mean like that African guy who seemed to go through a construction zone like Spider-Man in Casino Royale?

 

[Cyrusbales]

Well fantasy is harder to do, but generally more rewarding, the whole 'realism' angle is a bit of an easy option really (from a filmaker's point of veiw)

 

[3dman27]

I thought comic books & movies were supposed to-at least to an extent-be an ESCAPE from our world.

it IS chris,it IS

 

[Chris Wallace]

My point is, I think the 616 Avengers CAN be done realistically.

 

[Chris Wallace]

My point is, I think the 616 Avengers CAN be done realistically. I want them to be the Avengers, not GI Joe with superpowers.

 

[The Question]

I thought comic books & movies were supposed to-at least to an extent-be an ESCAPE from our world.

Nope. Not at all. Comics and movies are supposed to be comics and movies. They can be about and do anything they wish, within the confines of the medium.

 

[Savage]

My point is, I think the 616 Avengers CAN be done realistically. I want them to be the Avengers, not GI Joe with superpowers.

Yeah. I mean would anyone really like it if the Justice League was assembled by the government?

 

[The Question]

Yeah. I mean would anyone really like it if the Justice League was assembled by the government?

I actually wouldn't be against it, but it really depends on how it's done. Besides, the difference between The Avengers and the League is that The Avengers have, for years, had some sort of tie with the government and has often had members with very strong ties to the government.

 

[MaskedManJRK]

I'd say a good mix of the two--have them have more superhero/supervillian battles of Avengers, and have the more deeper, realisitic characters of Ultimates.

 

[The Question]

My main reason for going with the government thing stems solely from a storytelling point of veiw. With the government thing, then they come together in a logical way that flows pretty wel. If they just get together by accident, then it would probably seem rather forced and would end up being one big cluster **** of characters.

 

[fluffysellscars]

I'd prefer 616, but Ultimates or not, with Zak Penn writing this movie it's going to be terrible. Prepare for lame jokes, one-liners, and hollow characterization just like in FF, Elektra and X3.

I have no idea why they keep hiring this hack, but maybe in 15 years or so a competent writer will get a chance at the Avengers.

 

[Darthphere]

I expected a closer vote.

 

[Rez]

I just reread the Ultimates yesterday, and I still can't get over how PERFECT it is for the screen.

Since I've read the other films are being made of the major characters, it would work best like this:

The Needed films:
-Hulk(Already done with-you could squeeze out a more heroic Hulk sequel before Ultimates if so inclined)

-Captain America(Set during WW2 and ending with his "death")

-Iron Man (Whatever you want to do)


The Optional film:
-A Nick Fury movie, ending with him becoming the leader of shield


The Unneeded film:
-Ant Man (Should not stand alone)



The above three(or four) films would lead up to THE ULTIMATES. I'd see it as a roughly 2 and half hour movie.
A rough timeline of the film follows:
First 15 minutes:
The Ultimates issue 2- Fury rounds up Banner, mentions and discusses Captain America, The Hulk & Alien technology, Gets Stark on board with Iron Man. Introduces Hank Pym & Jan, their sciences, Ant technology, and breakthrough with Giant Man
Next 35 Minutes:
Ultimates issues 3 & 4- The return of Captain America, formation of the team, plugging them to the media, Captain America reintroduced to his life and the world, Banner gets depressed. Introduction of Ultimate Thor, who wants nothing to do with them. First hints of stress between Hank & Jan. Additionally, Another few mentions or setups of the Aliens & technology, plus the introductions of minor characters Black Widow & Hawkeye(Save Scarlet Witch & Pietro for the sequal).

At 50-60 minutes:
First Major set piece. Banner Hulks it up and the superpowered Ultimates get together to own his ass. Thor comes in to help at the end.

Next half hour:
Publicly recognized as heroes. Fall out between Hank and Jan leads to domestic violence. CA goes after Hank. More alien set up.

The last hour of the film:
Building towards the big alien conflict in the last 4 or so issues. A big balls to the wall battle in the last 30 minutes. We see Hank recovering from getting his ass handed to him, Banner in his cell, and the big celebration ballroom scene. Ends with Jan looking better & Cap kissing her. Fury leaves the room laughing, saying "Damn, I thought he was never going to get some." Just like in the comics.


IT'S PERFECT, PEOPLE!

And the sequel would work much the same way. The biggest reason I want this to happen is so I can see Hawkeye's scene from The Ultimates 2 on screen. You know the one, where he's locked up to a chair but rips off his fingernails and kills everyone in the room. Most badass moment ever.

I wouldn't want a Thor movie until after The Ultimates, or perhaps even after The Ultimates 2. I love how he's portrayed as possibly insane, and I wouldn't want to ruin that aspect with his own film explaining that he's not insane before the fact. It would be reduced to more of a joke, as in, everyone kind of thinks he's insane, but we the audience know he's not- so we smile and go along with it knowing they will all one day find out. I like it a lot better where we don't actually know, more dramatic.

Anywho, there you have it. The perfect film- THE ULTIMATES.