The Amazing Spider-Man Lizard Talk

[Project862006]

i am hoping he will not become the sympathetic villain like sandman/goblin/doc ock/ it would be a good change for him to be beyond fixing

 

[SpeterMan3]

But the Lizard is the perfect sympathetic villain. It's hard to make him unsympathetic, with his family and whatnot.

 

[Spiderine]

I would totally expect Connors to be sympathetic. The one villain that should be.

 

[The Slang]

If you can accept a person being exposed to green gas and gaining super powers, Lizard will be fine.

People have been exposed to synthesized gases for the purpose of human performance enhancing.

If you can accept a man being fused to robot arms (with built in A.I), Lizard will be fine.

People have been 'fused' to robotic arms/devices with built in software and automatic functions... I guess that's not technically AI but you get my point.

and a man binding to an alien organism from the far reaches of space

Have you spoken to any scientologists lately?

Alright, I understand that few if any of the situations in spider-man are capable of re-occuring in real life. But I'm shocked that some fans don't realize how many of the concepts are actual scientific possibilities.

We could right now, engineer a human-lizard with all the physical and mental attributes of the spider-man 'villain'.

We could also incorporate certain animal genes into a person to create abilities that mirror spider-mans. The most unrealistic part of the story is not the character and what they are, its the idea that they could undergo this transformation by accident, or part way through life without an artifical mutagen.

I'm sorry it just pains me to hear someone say that the lizard is just as believable as strength enhancing gas... I mean c'mon.

 

[co2]

I would totally expect Connors to be sympathetic. The one villain that should be.

Precisely. That's integral to his character. In fact, I think Raimi stole that quality from Connors and put it into Octavius for 2.

 

[BobJM]

Raimi gave Lizard's wife to Doc Ock and his kid to Sandman.

Hopefully Lizard doesn't feel like a retread

 

[The Joker]

What's all this bull dust about Lizard's qualities being lost to Octavius and Sandman?

Curt Conners has a loving wife AND a child. Ock had no kids, and Sandman was estranged from his wife. Curt Conners was working to regrow his arm. Not build a fusion reactor. Doc Ock's wife was killed as a result of his reckless behaviour before he became a villain. Conners family are placed in danger after he becomes a villain. And they never died.

It's a whole different dynamic there. The REAL problem is Curt Conners' profession in the movies. "I'm a physicist not a biologist". WTF? Conners is a biologist in the comics. Did it escape Raimi's notice? How else does he experiment with Lizard DNA? I dunno why Raimi did that.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I personally think those who are having a hard time seeing the Lizard on the silver screen don’t really know the character that well. I’ve grown up with the Lizard since I was a little kid and I can honestly tell you he has loads of potential.

I think Sam Raimi is the man to harness that potential. I’m hoping the Lizard is the only villain in Spider-Man 4, but from what Dylan Baker has said about the talks he has had with Raimi, there seems to be something else brewing.

In an interview last year Dylan Baker was asked “Who is your favorite super hero?” He responded with “Well I know technically he isn’t considered a super hero, but with Sam’s vision I’d have to say The Lizard.”

The Lizard is a very tragic tale that chain reacts to a bunch of different people. This affects Peter, Martha, Billy, and Curt. You could also have a driving force behind Curt Connors research into regrowing his arm. In the comics he regrew it because Martha wouldn’t get used to not having the right arm to hold her.

Can you imagine the powerful scenes of Billy running into the house to get his baseball glove says hi to his dad who inquires “Where are you off to in a hurry?” and Billy says he is going to play baseball. Curt then looks out the window and sees another father throwing around a baseball with Billy and his friend.

That would be a very tragic scene showing this fathers pain that he can’t play with his kid like a normal dad. Curt then tries to re-grow his arm using his brilliance, only to fall further down the spiral. From not being able to have a right arm to not having a right arm but a condition that mutates him into a mindless monster.

I think the Lizard definitely has a lot of potential.

CREDIT: Hobo123 Lizard concept

Very well said.

 

[SpeterMan3]

It's a whole different dynamic there. The REAL problem is Curt Conners' profession in the movies. "I'm a physicist not a biologist". WTF? Conners is a biologist in the comics. Did it escape Raimi's notice? How else does he experiment with Lizard DNA? I dunno why Raimi did that.

Umm... maybe so when he tries messing with the DNA, he has no idea what he's doing, and makes a huge mistake and goes all

Or maybe Raimi just goofed...

 

[Venom'sDad]

I don't think anyone is arguing if the villain is sympathetic or have great potential & story. We all know the story & history behind Connors and the Lizard.

The question is how can he pull it off without it being cheezy. This would be the first time we see a live action animalistic beastly humanzoid fighting and causing havoc, with the backdrop of Spiderman. We have never scene such feature in and comicbook film. This will be a first and is Sam up for it. We are not talking about slow moving Slee-Stack.

None off us knows what Sam has in mind. As been said many times, he has already changed Dr. Connors profession. I never dreamed, just because Sandman became a giant, he would become so slow and lumbering. We know what we hope to see; however, that does not guarantee what we will see.

As far as Connors being sympathetic.... why is that a must. For him to be sympathetic, I would think him becoming Lizard would have tragic consequence toward someone dear to his being or be the result of trying to do for someone dear to his being.

In the films, Sandman became because of the love for his daughter. DocOck became tragic because of the loss of his wife. Do anyone expect anything tragic to happen to Curt's family? They are not in need for help...he's trying to help himself. I don't see any potential harm towards the family. I just see emotional concern for Curt by his family. What sympathetic about that?

I would love to see Lizard and I expect the CGI to be mind blowing; but, I'm not so convinced we are going to get anything close, at least, to what we all wish to see. Certainly, after Batman, Ironman, and TIH... I'm not sure what his approach will be either, nor do anyone. We may not even get Lizard. We are the ones that feel he's the next logical villain. I certainly never thought Venom would be in 3....

Here's hoping for the best.

 

[Spiderine]

As far as Connors being sympathetic.... why is that a must. For him to be sympathetic, I would think him becoming Lizard would have tragic consequence toward someone dear to his being or be the result of trying to do for someone dear to his being.

Do anyone expect anything tragic to happen to Curt's family? They are not in need for help...he's trying to help himself. I don't see any potential harm towards the family. I just see emotional concern for Curt by his family. What sympathetic about that?



Here's hoping for the best.

You don't see the potential harm to his family? Mom is in the kitchen cooking and son is in the front room playing video games and dad comes out the bathroom now tranformed into a mindless giant reptilian beast. Unless he is a nice Lizard I would say they are in danger.

 

[SpeterMan3]

Yep, there's a huge chance of physical and emotional harm, especially to Billy.

 

[Venom'sDad]

You don't see the potential harm to his family? Mom is in the kitchen cooking and son is in the front room playing video games and dad comes out the bathroom now tranformed into a mindless giant reptilian beast. Unless he is a nice Lizard I would say they are in danger.

LOL, well why would he transform into a mindless giant reptile in the bathroom; unless squeezing out waste cause his transformation, and he raving because little Jimmy didn't put a new role of toilet paper in there.... than yes, I can see your point.

On the other hand, I think any transformation would take place in the lab. But who knows, I just don't see him trying to harm his family. I don't think that's what Sam have in mind. I just see an overly emotional wife with a concern child.I think his family may be slightly more prevalent in this film than Sandman's was. It will be more about Peter & MJ as always, and the two villains he said would be in the film.

 

[Spiderine]

LOL, well why would he transform into a mindless giant reptile in the bathroom; unless squeezing out waste cause his transformation, and he raving because little Jimmy didn't put a new role of toilet paper in there.... than yes, I can see your point.

On the other hand, I think any transformation would take place in the lab. But who knows, I just don't see him trying to harm his family. I don't think that's what Sam have in mind. I just see an overly emotional wife with a concern child.I think his family may be slightly more prevalent in this film than Sandman's was. It will be more about Peter & MJ as always, and the two villains he said would be in the film.

You would be surprised at what happens in some households when one does not replace the toilet paper. Certain transformations do take place.


Anyways, the point is if the complete transformation were to take place in their presence there can be a psychological and physical danger for their well being and would probably take the intervention of Spiderman to help. You can't help but feel a certain amount of sympathy for Connors. He is no longer in control and is no longer making the choices of his actions. There will always be the concern if they will ever see him return home to a normal life and even if he survives since the city would be out to capture or kill him. How is that not sympathetic?

There is also the matter of his relationship to Peter. He is a mentor and a friend. And it means a lot to Peter to help him return to normal. He is obviously the victim of an experiment gone horribly wrong at the expense of simply trying to restore a limb. Anything else would be a drastic change.

 

[Venom'sDad]

You would be surprised at what happens in some households when one does not replace the toilet paper. Certain transformations do take place.


Anyways, the point is if the complete transformation were to take place in their presence there can be a psychological and physical danger for their well being and would probably take the intervention of Spiderman to help. You can't help but feel a certain amount of sympathy for Connors. He is no longer in control and is no longer making the choices of his actions. There will always be the concern if they will ever see him return home to a normal life and even if he survives since the city would be out to capture or kill him. How is that not sympathetic?

There is also the matter of his relationship to Peter. He is a mentor and a friend. And it means a lot to Peter to help him return to normal. He is obviously the victim of an experiment gone horribly wrong at the expense of simply trying to restore a limb. Anything else would be a drastic change.

Well, I think we are getting a little ahead of ourselves. First, we don't know what kind of beast Sam will deliver. He man not be a mindless reptile. Second, we don't know where the transformation will take place or if it will a recurring event or just remain throughout the coarse of the film. Third, Peter already have had close ones to either lose their life or come close to it; so, I think most will be somewhat immune to the same dribble. Finally, Sam has already used Connor's family story in the form of Otto and Flint; so, I don't know what would change.

Now, your point is valid and I'm sure we will get some of what you suggest... particularly the psychological aspect of it. Reasons why I say an overly emotional wife with a concern child. I just don't see much more than that.

One other aspect of this, who the other villain is. Most tend to suggest Kraven; but that is not a given as well. With that said, the event with him and his family may revolve around that as well. Who knows.

 

[shigsy2003]

The Lizard has got to be the villian in the next film. But he also needs Kraven in there with him. Imagine the fight scenes. While Kraven is trying to hunt his prey, Spider-Man is trying to prevent the Lizard killing him and Kraven, while preventing Kraven killing the Lizard and trying to survive himself. Okay so the scientist bad guy is nothing new in this franchise but we have the added twist of a villian who only half the time hates Spider-Man.

 

[Spiderine]

Well, I think we are getting a little ahead of ourselves. First, we don't know what kind of beast Sam will deliver. He man not be a mindless reptile. Second, we don't know where the transformation will take place or if it will a recurring event or just remain throughout the coarse of the film. Third, Peter already have had close ones to either lose their life or come close to it; so, I think most will be somewhat immune to the same dribble. Finally, Sam has already used Connor's family story in the form of Otto and Flint; so, I don't know what would change.

Hmm, I see. Well if the Lizard is on the rampage puting people in harm's way and Dr Connors is fully in control of his actions then that puts an entirely different spin on the situation. My question is why would he do that? If that is Raimi's approach then it's not a very good one.

Whether or not the transformation is a permanent state or alternating one remains to be seen but the fact that he still needs to be cured is what is at issue.

As far as the comparisons to Flint and Otto, there are major differences. Yes, Otto had a wife he loved dearly and vice versa but we never saw the emotional effects his accident had on her since she was dead. Flint and his wife were separated and she wanted absolutely nothing to do with the bomb. She hated his guts. Connors would be a man with a wife and child who loves and cares deeply for him and we would see how the ordeal involves them as a family. That's the biggest difference.

Peter has seen death all around him by now. That doesn't mean that he no longer cares when someone else close to him is in danger. That is what he is suppose to do. He uses his powers to at the very least prevent people from getting hurt.

 

[The Lizard]

I've been let down too many times over the last 9 years to even start hoping that the Lizard will be in SM4.

I'll wait until the official villain announcements start coming before I even think about it.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I've been let down too many times over the last 9 years to even start hoping that the Lizard will be in SM4.

I'll wait until the official villain announcements start coming before I even think about it.

HOnestly, I think we'll see him in this film. I mean, he's been developed very well in this franchise so far, so I wouldn't be extremely surprised if we see him. I'd be VERY VERY happy if he's the Villian, actually.

 

[Venom'sDad]

Hmm, I see. Well if the Lizard is on the rampage puting people in harm's way and Dr Connors is fully in control of his actions then that puts an entirely different spin on the situation. My question is why would he do that? If that is Raimi's approach then it's not a very good one.

That's not the approach I was referring to.... that would be a big mistake. I was speaking more of a Jekyll/Hyde scenario... we don't know what kind of beast Sam has in mind. Will it be like Jekyll & Hyde or will it be a Lizard that Connors semi controls and is struggling with losing control. Sam is not beyond creating his own adaptation.

Whether or not the transformation is a permanent state or alternating one remains to be seen but the fact that he still needs to be cured is what is at issue.

He may not need to be cured... we don't know. If you read "Spidey Story" in my sig, you will see apossible solution to counter the obvious "find a cure, get an antidote" solution, that we know will be prevalent in the story.

As far as the comparisons to Flint and Otto, there are major differences. Yes, Otto had a wife he loved dearly and vice versa but we never saw the emotional effects his accident had on her since she was dead. Flint and his wife were separated and she wanted absolutely nothing to do with the bomb. She hated his guts. Connors would be a man with a wife and child who loves and cares deeply for him and we would see how the ordeal involves them as a family. That's the biggest difference.

That's not the angle I was coming from; so you half right as far as Otto and the loving wife. The similarity with Sandman, imo, will be the child. However, you are right, Otto's wife is dead; so the GA didn't see how that would play into it when Otto became DocOck. Yet we have seen that in many ways with Spidey and MJ... so to speak. And the child, the helpless child who just loves & wants her dad... how is Franklin going to be any difference.

Peter has seen death all around him by now. That doesn't mean that he no longer cares when someone else close to him is in danger. That is what he is suppose to do. He uses his powers to at the very least prevent people from getting hurt.

I'm not arguing that... I'm just saying, it's getting tiresome. He has quit once because of it, and because he WANTS to be normal, he takes his mask off, so who don't know who he is...Sandman certainly knows, "hey... you're the guy who takes pictures of Spiderman for the Bugle. Why you..." Especially if DocOck comes back.

My point being... he's his own problem. He is putting close ones in danger because of his own actions. WTFing purpose of him wearing a mask? Sam backing himself in a corner with his thoughtless writing.

 

[TheSlag]

It's a whole different dynamic there. The REAL problem is Curt Conners' profession in the movies. "I'm a physicist not a biologist". WTF? Conners is a biologist in the comics. Did it escape Raimi's notice? How else does he experiment with Lizard DNA? I dunno why Raimi did that.

Agreed. One of many stupid mis-steps by our Dear Ole Sam. You know, the guy who is the BIG Spider-Man fan.

*Sheesh*

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

^^ It's his interpretation though. I don't know of many directors (except Zack Snyder) that pull every single thing from the comics and put them on film. Sam is just adding/changing things for his films while still staying true to the comics with things.

 

[SpideyTheBest]

There's a lizard model behind Connors when he talks to Peter on the phone. I'm sure everyone has noticed that a long time ago but I'm just saying. It was a nice reference.

But yeah I don't know why Connors claims to be a physicist and not a biologist. What were Raimi actually thinking? I'm telling you, he was taking drugs while doing Spider-Man 3.

 

[TheSlag]

^^ It's his interpretation though. I don't know of many directors (except Zack Snyder) that pull every single thing from the comics and put them on film. Sam is just adding/changing things for his films while still staying true to the comics with things.

For Crying out loud... When you look up Raimi Apologist in the Dictionary your picture must be front and center. t:

Uncle Ben killer is Sandman... check.. no problem
MJ = GweMJ creation... check... no problem

I bet Sam could "interput" the Clone Saga, and you would even love that.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

For Crying out loud... When you look up Raimi Apologist in the Dictionary your picture must be front and center. t:

Uncle Ben killer is Sandman... check.. no problem
MJ = GweMJ creation... check... no problem

I bet Sam could "interput" the Clone Saga, and you would even love that.

That's BS. I don't see how me saying "it's his interpretation" is sucking up to him. Was Sam's Peter parker just like the comics? No, but what is fact is that he changed it up a bit to fit into his spidey film universe.