Logan Logan spoiler thread discussion

[Hmarrs]

Repeat.

 

[Hmarrs]

No, in the comics Zander Rice's father was one of the scientists who worked on the Weapon X project that Logan murdered in his feral state upon escaping. The film kept that element intact, without the need to elaborate on it.

The should have just made Strykers sone since 1. the name is more known and consisitent as Wolverines tormentor through out all of the X-men Movie Series.
Also its along the same line of work Controlling Mutants.

 

[Weather Witch]

The should have just made Strykers sone since 1. the name is more known and consisitent as Wolverines tormentor through out all of the X-men Movie Series.
Also its along the same line of work Controlling Mutants.

Why would Jason try to wipe out Mutants though? He is one of them himself.

 

[Limonade]

Could have done away with the farm family sub-plot. It just made the film longer than it should.

Also, I don't see why the organization felt it was necessary to create a full on clone of Wolverine... it seemed that everyone in that world knew how dangerous Logan can be.

Out of the many choices of superheroes available why do a superhero known to be untameable.

Why not clone one of the more meta powered mutants--that is less volatile and less harder to control than a beserker.

It reminds me of what Dr. Malcolm in Jurassic Park said during the lunch scene.

It also looked like they had a bunch of dna from former mutants. A Storm clone or Magneto would make that organization nearly unstoppable.

 

[Limonade]

Also, the clone wolverine vs. Logan felt like we were retreading the same ground that previous films made. A villian who can heal and have adamantium skeleton that can go toe-to-toe with our hero... I'm looking at you Lady Deathstrike!

 

[Donner]

Why would Jason try to wipe out Mutants though? He is one of them himself.

So is Caliban and he helped the Reavers track down and kill mutants.

 

[Shadow Scars]

OMG you guys. I just watched the first trailer for the first time since I watched the movie and I cried.

As much as I love this movie, I still hate that it ruined the 'happily ever after' DOFP ending. I wanted to imagine that after Logan woke up in the reset timeline, they could all finally be happy together.

MANGOLD HAS SAID THAT THIS TAKES PLACE IN THE NEW DOFP TIMELINE.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain this in a way that makes sense. At the end of DOFP, 6 years before Logan or whatever, Xavier and Logan look basically the same as usual. How could they age so much in 6 years? How could both of their health deteriorate so rapidly after being the same for so long, Especially Logan?

I feel they try to explain this with the corn syrup poison, but that poison was supposedly released 25 years ago. Why would it all of a sudden have such a dramatic effect on Logan and Xavier in the past 6 years? And where are all the mutants born before 25 years ago? What killed most of them off?

Actually lets just focus on Logan and assume Xavier naturally developed alzheimers and that's why he looks and sounds so bad just a few years later. So what happened to Logan?

I know I'm trying to make sense of timelines that have so many issues, but DOFP fixed so much of it for me. I just feel like this makes no sense. It would have made so much more sense to me had they just set this movie say 20 years after DOFP and said the adamantium poisoning was finally catching up to Logan.

 

[Weather Witch]

So is Caliban and he helped the Reavers track down and kill mutants.

Yes, but he was being tortured and forced into doing it. If we are going to make Jason the big bad again then we once again need another bad guy who makes him do all of this. And then we are right back at Zander Rice in a similar role as X2's Stryker.

just set this movie say 20 years after DOFP and said the adamantium poisoning was finally catching up to Logan.

Just the mere thought of how old that would make Charles makes me want to use moisturizer.

 

[Limonade]

OMG you guys. I just watched the first trailer for the first time since I watched the movie and I cried.

As much as I love this movie, I still hate that it ruined the 'happily ever after' DOFP ending. I wanted to imagine that after Logan woke up in the reset timeline, they could all finally be happy together.

MANGOLD HAS SAID THAT THIS TAKES PLACE IN THE NEW DOFP TIMELINE.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain this in a way that makes sense. At the end of DOFP, 6 years before Logan or whatever, Xavier and Logan look basically the same as usual. How could they age so much in 6 years? How could both of their health deteriorate so rapidly after being the same for so long, Especially Logan?

I feel they try to explain this with the corn syrup poison, but that poison was supposedly released 25 years ago. Why would it all of a sudden have such a dramatic effect on Logan and Xavier in the past 6 years?

Actually lets just focus on Logan and assume Xavier naturally developed alzheimers and that's why he looks and sounds so bad just a few years later. So what happened to Logan?

I know I'm trying to make sense of timelines that have so many issues, but DOFP fixed so much of it for me. I just feel like this makes no sense. It would have made so much more sense to me had they just set this movie say 20 years after DOFP and said the adamantium poisoning was finally catching up to Logan.

The timeline is so convoluted it's better to see this movie as a stand alone and not try to fit this is in the larger universe.

 

[Infinity9999x]

OMG you guys. I just watched the first trailer for the first time since I watched the movie and I cried.

As much as I love this movie, I still hate that it ruined the 'happily ever after' DOFP ending. I wanted to imagine that after Logan woke up in the reset timeline, they could all finally be happy together.

MANGOLD HAS SAID THAT THIS TAKES PLACE IN THE NEW DOFP TIMELINE.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain this in a way that makes sense. At the end of DOFP, 6 years before Logan or whatever, Xavier and Logan look basically the same as usual. How could they age so much in 6 years? How could both of their health deteriorate so rapidly after being the same for so long, Especially Logan?

I feel they try to explain this with the corn syrup poison, but that poison was supposedly released 25 years ago. Why would it all of a sudden have such a dramatic effect on Logan and Xavier in the past 6 years? And where are all the mutants born before 25 years ago? What killed most of them off?

Actually lets just focus on Logan and assume Xavier naturally developed alzheimers and that's why he looks and sounds so bad just a few years later. So what happened to Logan?

I know I'm trying to make sense of timelines that have so many issues, but DOFP fixed so much of it for me. I just feel like this makes no sense. It would have made so much more sense to me had they just set this movie say 20 years after DOFP and said the adamantium poisoning was finally catching up to Logan.

Mangold may have said that, but then he's obviously not paying too much attention to making it actually work. Since in 2023 (the good timeline ending) there were young mutants running around the mansion, and in Logan, Logan says no new mutants had been born for 20 years.

Easiest way to go: Mangold was wrong, this is an else worlds or separate timeline from DOFP. In other threads people have been breaking it down like this:

Timeline 1:
Origins
X1
X2
X3
Logan

Timeline 2:
FC
Origins+Original Trilogy (somewhat altered)
The Wolverine
DOFP

Timeline 3:
FC
*Altered origins thru trilogy*
DOFP
Happy DOFP ending.

The DOFP/Logan ending thread breaks this down in detail.

For myself, I don't spend much time paying attention to the timelines since it the timeline hasn't made since ever since Origins/First Class, and I just treated this movie the same way I treated Old Man Logan the book when I read it: A cool else worlds story about the end of the character.

 

[Weather Witch]

Since in 2023 (the good timeline ending) there were young mutants running around the mansion, and in Logan, Logan says no new mutants had been born for 20 years.

These two are still not mutually exclusive. In 2004 they started with the poision. Then there have been no new mutants since 20 years ago (2009). Thus all the kids were 14 or older.

 

[Infinity9999x]

These two are still not mutually exclusive. In 2004 they started with the poision. Then there have been no new mutants since 20 years ago (2009). Thus all the kids were 14 or older.

In the ending scene, there are more than a few kids that look younger than 14. Not only that, but when you add in that Wolverine seems to rapidly age within 6 years, whereas it seems the Adamantium Poisoning is hardly affecting him (if at all) in DOFP.

Sure, it's possible to try and twist it to fit, but it becomes a bit silly. It being separate timeline makes the most sense.

 

[Weather Witch]

In the ending scene, there are more than a few kids that look younger than 14.

Slow aging or government created Mutant kids rescued by the X-Men?

I am not going to pretend everything in these movies lines up perfectly because it never does, but I do think adding more timelines as fixes just makes things worse. The mainstream audience is having a hard enough time as it is with the second timeline, let alone a third or god forbid a fourth. Actually now that I think about it... Deadpool actually makes more sense with Logan in mind. The dormant gene stuff that didn't really seem to line up with the previous movies, as well as the government creating their own Mutants lines up with Logan very well.

Not only that, but when you add in that Wolverine seems to rapidly age within 6 years, whereas it seems the Adamantium Poisoning is hardly affecting him (if at all) in DOFP.

Six years is a long time though. I've seen people get much worse in much less time without a dangerous metal inside of them.

 

[Shadow Scars]

For me I'm going with this -

Timeline 1:
FC
Origins
X1-3
Wolverine
DOFP before the end

Timeline 2:
End of DOFP
Apocolypse
Whatever's next

Standalone:
Logan
Deadpool

I think Logan makes the most sense if you just imagine it being the sequel to X1 and X2 and count that as a contained X trilogy.

If I want to watch an X-Men saga in chronological order that makes the most sense, sucks the least, and has a happy ending:

FC
X1-3
Wolverine
DOFP

 

[nightwing06]

Also, the clone wolverine vs. Logan felt like we were retreading the same ground that previous films made. A villian who can heal and have adamantium skeleton that can go toe-to-toe with our hero... I'm looking at you Lady Deathstrike!

i agree

 

[Infinity9999x]

Slow aging or government created Mutant kids rescued by the X-Men?

I am not going to pretend everything in these movies lines up perfectly because it never does, but I do think adding more timelines as fixes just makes things worse. The mainstream audience is having a hard enough time as it is with the second timeline, let alone a third or god forbid a fourth. Actually now that I think about it... Deadpool actually makes more sense with Logan in mind. The dormant gene stuff that didn't really seem to line up with the previous movies, as well as the government creating their own Mutants lines up with Logan very well.

Six years is a long time though. I've seen people get much worse in much less time without a dangerous metal inside of them.

The general audience doesn't care about the timelines. Only nerds like us dot: Many of them don't even really remember what the older X-films were about, let alone what the specific contradictions of the films are.

The simplest way to view this is simply as a stand alone story...the same way we do in the comics all the time. Nobody fusses about trying to make The Dark Knight Returns fit into the current New 52 timeline. And nobody was perplexed that Old Man Logan was an elseworlds tale. It's the same with this film. People take it on it's own terms. If it does or doesn't fit in the other film's timeline it doesn't bother them.

 

[Shadow Scars]

Six years is a long time though. I've seen people get much worse in much less time without a dangerous metal inside of them.

I think what makes it hard to swallow though is that it didn't seem to affect him for what, 50 years? Now it's left him half dead in 6 years?

So Xavier is bad off bc of the alzheimers he developed in the past 6 years? check.
Wolverine is bad off bc of the adamantium poisoning that has finally caught up to him in the past 6 years? check.
No new mutants born in 25 years bc of the corn syrup tampering? check.
But do they ever explain or hint what happened to all the non x-men mutants that are older than 25? Sure some are still around like Logan and Xavier, but it seems like the vast majority have been wiped out in the last 6 years. How?

 

[marvelrobbins]

Slow aging or government created Mutant kids rescued by the X-Men?

I am not going to pretend everything in these movies lines up perfectly because it never does, but I do think adding more timelines as fixes just makes things worse. The mainstream audience is having a hard enough time as it is with the second timeline, let alone a third or god forbid a fourth. Actually now that I think about it... Deadpool actually makes more sense with Logan in mind. The dormant gene stuff that didn't really seem to line up with the previous movies, as well as the government creating their own Mutants lines up with Logan very well.

Six years is a long time though. I've seen people get much worse in much less time without a dangerous metal inside of them.

people can view films however they want.however i think some are making it way too complected than it needs to be.

I go

timeline 1-first class.origins.X-Men.X2.last stand.The Wolverine.DOFP

timeline 2-first class.DOFP.Apocalypse.Deadpool.Logan

as the filmmakers have said some varation of events from films erased
by DOFP time travel still happen.and pre 1973 events of origins and the wolverine are still canon.This is way you can view all 10 films so far as part of series as filmmakers and fox apparently want us to do.future films and the fox tv show are part of timeline 2.of course i have no idea how legion fits in even if does fit in at all.

 

[Weather Witch]

The general audience doesn't care about the timelines. Only nerds like us do t:

This is true, but specifically with Apocalypse there were a lot more questions about predictions to previous movies. Much more so than I expected there to be. I think after Apocalypse most people have accepted the second timeline thing though.

TMany of them don't even really remember what the older X-films were about, let alone what the specific contradictions of the films are.

This is also true though. People didn't even remember that Colossus existed when they screened Deadpool.

The simplest way to view this is simply as a stand alone story...the same way we do in the comics all the time. Nobody fusses about trying to make The Dark Knight Returns fit into the current New 52 timeline. And nobody was perplexed that Old Man Logan was an elseworlds tale. It's the same with this film. People take it on it's own terms. If it does or doesn't fit in the other film's timeline it doesn't bother them.

Standalone does work. It's more the posts where there is a whole new timeline is created specifically for Logan or where it is placed in the old continuity that seems more confusion that seem a bit unnecessary to me. People are absolutely free to though. I just personally find it more complicated than it has to be.

I think what makes it hard to swallow though is that it didn't seem to affect him for what, 50 years? Now it's left him half dead in 6 years?

I suppose there is that, but for me that still didn't seem very unrealistic. Each to his/her own though.

But do they ever explain or hint what happened to all the non x-men mutants that are older than 25? Sure some are still around like Logan and Xavier, but it seems like the vast majority have been wiped out in the last 6 years. How?

There are a lot of dead Mutants in the place where Donald mention that he wants to use Caliban's tracking abilities cuz 'he was a good tracker'. So actively hunted down and killed it seems, which is what X-24 and the other government Mutants probably were used for.

people can view films however they want.however i think some are making it way too complected than it needs to be.

This is totally fair.

I go

timeline 1-first class.origins.X-Men.X2.last stand.The Wolverine.DOFP

timeline 2-first class.DOFP.Apocalypse.Deadpool.Logan

Yeah likewise.

as the filmmakers have said some varation of events from films erased by DOFP time travel still happen.and pre 1973 events of origins and the wolverine are still canon.This is way you can view all 10 films so far as part of series as filmmakers and fox apparently want us to do.

There is also that. The current always corrects itself. ^^

future films and the fox tv show are part of timeline 2.of course i have no idea how legion fits in even if does fit in at all.

Legion and the other TV-series are going to be very interesting. Not 100% sure how far the 'connections' between them will go.

 

[GuestStar2004]

This is true, but specifically with Apocalypse there were a lot more questions about predictions to previous movies. Much more so than I expected there to be. I think after Apocalypse most people have accepted the second timeline thing though.

There are people that still think it connects to the OT and that apocalypse just ignored continuity.

 

[Weather Witch]

There are people that still think it connects to the OT and that apocalypse just ignored continuity.

Yeah I did see an article about 'where Logan fits in the timeline' that just ignored the reset.

 

[Golgo-13]

So, does that fact that Dr.Rice's father created the adamantium process and not Stryker confirm that this is a different timeline, or was 'Rice' mentioned and worked with Stryker in one of the earlier movies...?

 

[Gieferg]

Not only that, but when you add in that Wolverine seems to rapidly age within 6 years, whereas it seems the Adamantium Poisoning is hardly affecting him (if at all) in DOFP.

I suppose he has been somehow affected but some of Transigen's schemings between DOFP and Logan. Was it a virus of some kind that mess up with his healing factor and other mutants powers?

 

[Ivan Drago]

So, does that fact that Dr.Rice's father created the adamantium process and not Stryker confirm that this is a different timeline, or was 'Rice' mentioned and worked with Stryker in one of the earlier movies...?

Rice's backstory is taken straight from the comics

From wiki: "Dale Rice, Zander's father, worked on the original Weapon X Project where he was killed by an escaping Wolverine as he fled with a briefcase full of information about the project. The briefcase along with Dale's damaged dog tags were picked up by Dr. Martin Sutter, a colleague of his. Dr. Sutter gave a young Zander the dog tags and comforted him. His father's death is shown to heavily affect Zander throughout the rest of his life."

 

[Donner]

Rice's backstory is taken straight from the comics

From wiki: "Dale Rice, Zander's father, worked on the original Weapon X Project where he was killed by an escaping Wolverine as he fled with a briefcase full of information about the project. The briefcase along with Dale's damaged dog tags were picked up by Dr. Martin Sutter, a colleague of his. Dr. Sutter gave a young Zander the dog tags and comforted him. His father's death is shown to heavily affect Zander throughout the rest of his life."

So Rice could have been one of the many (many) people that Wolverine killed in X-Men: Apocalypse when Jean and Scott let him out of his cage?