Marvel December 2012 Solicitations

Man, I loved that Darkawk stuff that DnA were doing. The idea of the Fraternity of Raptors really appealed to me and I'm hoping that that's eventually touched on again. It was probably my favorite storyline from their entire Cosmic run.

The one dilemma with the Fraternity Of Raptors stuff was that it essentially made Darkhawk/Chris Powell insane for a large chunk of his 90's ongoing series, claiming he outright hallucinated Evilhawk (and thus likely Overhawk) and some of the stuff there. Admittedly it was a very clunky origin involving alien gangsters and lab technicians from other dimensions, but still. On the other hand, I did like the connection to pre-historic Shi'ar stuff, which is easier to get a handle on. I think Talon is still running around the space books as one more unresolved plot point.

My prediction: Darkhawk's one of the first to die in Avengers Arena. :oldrazz:

That would suck, but I could see it happening. He's the oldest character there.

Here's an uncharacteristically optimistic thought for me: What if Avengers Arena is intended as a short-term series that ultimately leads into a new New Warriors team? Like, Darkhawk and some of the more heroic adolescent characters refuse to kill the others and instead band together and find a way to put a stop to the 'game' altogether, then decide they worked well together and should keep at it. I'd really have to eat some crow if that happened because, honestly, that sounds like a pretty damn good idea for forging a new New Warriors team that brings them back to something at least close to the original conceit, as opposed to the myriad reinterpretations we've seen.

Technically, as some posters have told me, most of the founding/long term cast of NEW WARRIORS still exist. Justice, Speedball, and Firestar are still alive. NOVA brought back a time-paradox version of Namorita, and Rage is even still around with his adopted uncle, Donyell Taylor/Night-Thrasher II. Ultra-Girl has been running with the NW's and Firestar has equally rebounded with Gravity (although in fairness, their relationship seems more deep, while Vance/Ultra-Girl are usually seen making out or in mid-intercourse more than they actually talk, implying it may be more of a physical relationship). Toss in Slapstick as the unstable maniac and Silhouette and you could attempt to relaunch it. Marvel WILL have to inevitably publish the book again at some point to retain their trademark of it. That's why you see totally random relaunches like YOUNG ALLIES or MORBIUS at odd junctures. All of reality would collapse upon itself if Marvel lost a trademark, much like they did with CHAMPIONS after the 70's.

The problem with the NW would remain the same, though. In a Marvel Universe in which the same figures from the 60's never grow old, never die, never retire, and are always of vital importance for anything relevant, the New Warriors remain yet another "young hero team" of heroes who can never attain anything noteworthy or grow up. A "Neverland" universe without aging or replaced characters leaves the youngsters in a ditch after a few years. It's happened with the NEW MUTANTS (although I'd argue they've fared the best of them), it happened with the POWER PACK or NEW WARRIORS, and it's happening recently with RUNAWAYS, AVENGERS ACADEMY, YOUNG AVENGERS. etc. That's why they're lumped in death traps like ARENA for shock slaughter.

Hopeless promised deaths in interviews for the book. Whenever a writer promises someone will die, it usually is true. Of course, permanence is another story. Winter Soldier did technically die in FEAR ITSELF, for a whole 7 months. The dilemma is nobody cares about some of these characters enough to revive them if they go. I mean, Stature's not coming back. Microbe's not coming back. Hornet's not coming back. Dwayne Taylor's not coming back. Nobody Yost & Kyle butchered in NEW X-MEN is coming back. And in the end that's the only role these young characters can serve in a "Neverland" universe - canon fodder who just enough people care about that their deaths bring some shock, since it isn't like they're movie stars like Thor or Professor X and everyone KNOWS they will be back.

Without drastic motions that Marvel (nor DC) are unwilling or able to do, sadly a rut seems to be the natural place for new characters before long, at least within a shared, ageless universe.

DC has the same problem, although until NEW 52 their legacies at least muddled it. Still, you never had the Teen Titans achieve anything of line-wide relevance that the JLA or JSA couldn't. Besides a crossover with the X-Men once.

Darkhawk should be an Avenger, end of story.

He was technically an Avenger, and any past Avengers are free to show up in group shots at random. Normally I'd disagree, but we're now in an era where Shang Chi and Sunspot are Avengers. Since 2004 so many characters have become Avengers that it's becoming harder to think of any notable character who isn't or never was an active or reserve Avenger. Without drawing from X-Men (since only Beast, Wolverine, and Storm have become Avengers), the only three really notable characters I can think of are Silver Surfer, Deadpool, and Johnny Storm. Even Punisher was a part of the "Secret Avengers" during CIVIL WAR, which was an actual plot point. The Avengers are quickly becoming what the Defenders were with such an open roster.
 
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The one dilemma with the Fraternity Of Raptors stuff was that it essentially made Darkhawk/Chris Powell insane for a large chunk of his 90's ongoing series, claiming he outright hallucinated Evilhawk (and thus likely Overhawk) and some of the stuff there. Admittedly it was a very clunky origin involving alien gangsters and lab technicians from other dimensions, but still. On the other hand, I did like the connection to pre-historic Shi'ar stuff, which is easier to get a handle on. I think Talon is still running around the space books as one more unresolved plot point.

Talon's out there stil and there are 3 more as well I think. The one from the Sphinx arc in Nova and two of the Imperial Guard became Raptors in their Realm of Kings mini (what were their names, Mentor and Plutonia or something like that?). So the numbers were growing.

And while I usually hate such a huge revamp of a person's history I actually liked Darkhawk's. Besides the fact that it was such a good revamp and done so well, I honestly hated his original origin. His title in the 90's was fantastic until it got into that wierd-cosmic stuff, then it went downhill fast. This makes for a much better, more enjoyable Darkhawk so I'm okay with it.

Sadly, I can see him taking a lead in this book as the oldest and most experienced and eventually die saving some of the younger cast.
 
I'm both excited to see what Rucka does in Punisher: War Zone and dreading how Thor will be humiliated this time. :csad:

Goddamnit, you mean I skipped Captain America and Black Widow and now it turns out some version of the Black Knight will be involved? Great, now I have to hope I can track down the issue that's already come out. :cmad:

While I'm of course excited to get more Punisher, I don't know how excited I am about the book now guest starring like everyone in the Marvel universe. Seems like a big change in course for the series so far, and probably won't result in more Rucka Punisher in any case.

I was considering getting Cap & Black Widow too, not for your dumb reasons, but because Francavilla is awesome :up:
 
Rucka's Punisher is definitely done after War Zone. Marvel pissed him off.

Also, your face is dumb and so is Black Widow.
 
Talon's out there stil and there are 3 more as well I think. The one from the Sphinx arc in Nova and two of the Imperial Guard became Raptors in their Realm of Kings mini (what were their names, Mentor and Plutonia or something like that?). So the numbers were growing.

And while I usually hate such a huge revamp of a person's history I actually liked Darkhawk's. Besides the fact that it was such a good revamp and done so well, I honestly hated his original origin. His title in the 90's was fantastic until it got into that wierd-cosmic stuff, then it went downhill fast. This makes for a much better, more enjoyable Darkhawk so I'm okay with it.

Sadly, I can see him taking a lead in this book as the oldest and most experienced and eventually die saving some of the younger cast.

I didn't read the REALM OF KINGS: IMPERIAL GUARD mini so I didn't know. I don't disagree with you about the retcon to Darkhawk's origin - the original was a mess - but just making sure to acknowledge what it is. I suspect if he was a higher profile character there would have been a lot more backlash about it. Very few retcons are accepted with major characters these days, and that's usually justified.

I can see that outcome happening too. I just hate the very idea of AVENGERS ARENA, yet it comes up so bloody often for newer characters. They're used for nothing but canon fodder because the rules of the eternal, never ending universe are against new ideas.
 
I brought that up in the Spider-Man thread and Dan Slott replied by with one word - "no". So take that as you will.
No.

I said "no" to what you said.

You should probably go back and read exactly what it was that you said which prompted the "no."
 
No.

I said "no" to what you said.

You should probably go back and read exactly what it was that you said which prompted the "no."
So you're saying ASM #1 will only be $4 instead of $5? :p
 
Well, excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me for assuming that Marvel wants us to pay 5 bucks. :o
 
I'm more shocked that anyone WOULDN'T question whether Marvel would charge the extra buck for a new Spider-Man #1. I assumed they would to be honest.

Unless they aren't charging $4 OR $5 but instead $6... but don't worry, they're including reprints of Amazing Spider-Man #1 and the other Amazing Spider-Man #1 along with this Amazing Spider-Man #1 along with an extra backstory about Jackpot :p
 
Rucka does know Marvel owns the rights to the character, right? :o
 
Yeah, he made that clear in his statement. It's in the Punisher thread. He sounds disenchanted by both DC and Marvel these days.
 
"That’s their choice, they own him, but I don’t have to be happy about it."

Rucka's more whiny then even you, runaway.
 
He was also annoyed that he was putting out what he thought was quality work at DC that, according to DiDio, doesn't make any money (in spite of what he claimed were strong trade sales on his recent DC runs), and that both publishers seem more concerned with just putting comics on the stands now rather than the quality of the content in those comics.
 
He was also annoyed that he was putting out what he thought was quality work at DC that, according to DiDio, doesn't make any money (in spite of what he claimed were strong trade sales on his recent DC runs), and that both publishers seem more concerned with just putting comics on the stands now rather than the quality of the content in those comics.
I know. I read it.

Honestly, those are ridiculously childish reasons to get annoyed. The stuff he raises issue with are quite obviously just a part of the business.
 
I know. I read it.

Honestly, those are ridiculously childish reasons to get annoyed. The stuff he raises issue with are quite obviously just a part of the business.

He feels like he works hard for his bosses and feels unappreciated when they don't take his input into consideration. That's not really childish, it's part of having a job. If anything he's preaching to the choir (and venting).
 
Yeah, pretty much everyone feels that way at their job at some point. Personally, I don't really care one way or another that Rucka's no longer working at Marvel or DC if that means he's gonna put out more Stumptown instead.
 
Here's an uncharacteristically optimistic thought for me: What if Avengers Arena is intended as a short-term series that ultimately leads into a new New Warriors team? Like, Darkhawk and some of the more heroic adolescent characters refuse to kill the others and instead band together and find a way to put a stop to the 'game' altogether, then decide they worked well together and should keep at it. I'd really have to eat some crow if that happened because, honestly, that sounds like a pretty damn good idea for forging a new New Warriors team that brings them back to something at least close to the original conceit, as opposed to the myriad reinterpretations we've seen.

I've given up hope for that. Joe Q's era has always seen New Warriors, almost to a personal level, as a punchline for bad 90s ideas.

There have been tons of great hooks to build up the warriors again and it never panned out.

Part of me by this point also wonders if Kevin Grievoux has some sort of hold on that franchise ala a poor man's Heinenberg situation. It was astonishing they gave his book a 20 issue run, when it clearly was not a good New Warriors book ( i thought it was a good Night Thrasher tale though)
 
I don't think Grevioux's New Warriors sold well enough for Joe Q to allow him a stranglehold on the property.
 
He feels like he works hard for his bosses and feels unappreciated when they don't take his input into consideration. That's not really childish, it's part of having a job. If anything he's preaching to the choir (and venting).
That's what makes it childish. :o

Adults just shut up and work through it.

Not to mention all of what he lists as being insulted by isn't nearly as bad as what myself - and most working people I know - have to put up with on a daily basis.

Dan Didio said Gotham Central lost money? Who gives a ****. Did he cancel the book before Rucka wanted him to? No. Did he insult the quality of the book? No. He was merely making a financial statement.
 

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