Marvel over-load of negativity

Uh... okay? Like I said, I'm not debating anything about who can be called friends of either hero. I just wanted to point out that Peter has one living relative while Bruce has three, so in the family department, at least, Bruce is in the lead.

Let's take out Jason Todd and replace him with Bruce's son with Talia.

3 'sons' with family arguments > 1 Aunt May + 1 loving wife/former wife Mary Jane + future/missing daughter? Even in alternatve realities like HOM he was married with a child.

Looks like 3:3 to me.
 
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Sure, if you want to totally skew it in Peter's favor by bringing up stuff that's been rendered irrelevant by One More Day/Brand New Day. But that's cool. I just felt compelled to point something out, which you're clearly not interested in hearing. We'll just agree to disagree.
 
But he still has more friends and family than Batman. That's something money can't buy.
I'd love for you to tell me about Spider-Man's Dick Grayson, his Tim Drake, his Alfred, even his Jason Todd. We know who his Catwoman is, I suppose, since she's kind of an embarrassingly straightforward ripoff of Catwoman.

There are so many guys like Batman. They're white and rich. They take the law into their own hands. However, they were never as dark and lonely as what he's become. He can afford to do so much more if he only got help. He can even afford to make programs that aim to prevent crime instead of fight it.
Which he does, but part of what makes him interesting is the concept that he might be entirely wrong. Morrison just told a hell of a story about that very thing in Batman RIP that nobody got for the exact same reasons that the same people don't get Final Crisis.

Saying you'd rather Batman be more perfect is (for one thing shocking, from a Marvel fan) like saying you'd rather Frank Castle had a more thought-out strategy for attacking the root causes of crime. The point of him as a character is to explore the psychoses that make him.

That's why I like Iron Man better. He's more convincing as the playboy billionaire who became a hero.
You don't like rich white men who try to be vigilantes, but you love the guy who revels in his rich-white-guyness? You are a puzzle, my friend.

In terms of vigilante justice, Frank Castle was more sane about it. He fought in actual wars and legally enforced the law before he became the Punisher. He can tell you the history of gun violence and gun control and rationally tell you why it doesn't work sometimes. In spite of the crazy adventures Batman has, he has never been written as a guy who really understands the law. That is a huge disservice to fans who enjoy reading him.
Yeah, if you call Frank Castle sane, you need to read the Ennis Punisher and the Grant Punisher. There's nothing remotely sane about Frank Castle. But there's a lot awesome about Frank Castle. And what's awesome about him is that he's a little bit nutty.
 
Peter never had the serious arguments with Aunt May.
Because that's what functional means! Functional means never airing your grievances and letting them give you an ulcer and slowly make you so ****ing crazy that you get dangerously enmeshed and sell your marriage to save the life of this awful old ****-and-piss-factory ****e of a woman. :woot::woot::woot::pal::lmao::ghost::bomb:

Peter got to marry Mary Jane.
So he's less pimpin' than Batman. Thought you liked the billionaire playboy thing.

The deal with Mephisto was dumb, but he did that out of love.
Creepy, sicko, ****ed-up love. But I will say that the more I think about it, the more it totally fits with his character and the years of sublimated emotion that never showed itself good God his relationship with his aunt isn't right.

He's had a good friendship with other heroes like Daredevil and Captain America.
Batman, meanwhile, hangs out with Superman so often they have an ongoing comic together that I think has breached the 50-issue mark or will soon, and they had another one back in the day called World's Finest that was like 200 issues. They've also got a comic book going with Wonder Woman that transcends the very icy grip of death to keep Batman hanging out with his buddies a little bit longer.
 
or dynamite comics
I've all but stopped reading Dynamite. They have a licensed property or two that I'm still reading because I'm one of those guys that reads everything my favorite characters appear in and the creative team is pretty good, but other than that, the whole debacle over the Phantom just smacked of the kind of wicked business practices that I can't stand. No more Dynamite for me, other than Man With No Name.
 
debacle over the phantom?
The Phantom property was licensed to Moonstone, as it has been for quite some time. When comics and superheroes were in the fiction ghetto, the licensor, King Features, didn't care that Moonstone wasn't making huge bank for them. Pop trends have changed, and superheroes are cool again. Dynamite basically exists as a shell company for Hollywood proposals, so they figured they could probably get a sweet deal out of King for the Phantom license, and essentially just bought the license without even consulting the current sub-licensor, Moonstone! Dynamite announced that it would begin publishing Phantom comics, counting on two things to bully Moonstone: 1) if Moonstone put up a fight, the larger publisher with the larger fanbase (Dynamite) would automatically win the PR War. 2) Moonstone wouldn't know its rights and wouldn't fight Dynamite's new Phantom comics, which would then take up valuable Phantom-buying dollars away from Moonstone. 3) Most fans (like you, presumably) wouldn't even know that Moonstone was publishing Phantom comics. Only the hardest-core of Phantom fans have been buying that book, because it's really good, but it doesn't have Dynamite's distribution and financial backing and Hollywood seed money. 4) Ideally, Dynamite even seemed to plan to try and get Moonstone to stop publishing! They seemed to be positioning themselves for some kind of legal attack to that effect, which Moonstone couldn't have funded a defense against.

But Moonstone did put up a fight to defend their license, which wasn't set to expire for several more years, and they did it the smart way: the court of public opinion. Moonstone was either going to lose in the court of public opinion (due to lack of fans), or lose in a court of law (due to lack of funds), but in the court of public opinion, the negative publicity would at least drive Dynamite away from it.

And that's exactly what happened: Moonstone's head released a scathing attack on the head of Dynamite, and although Dynamite at first tried to defend themselves, they quickly saw a bad publicity storm brewing, and withdrew.

The most despicable thing about the entire affair was the way Dynamite made themselves look like the mature, being-the-adult side by withdrawing. "We'll let them publish their little Phantom book if that's really what they want, because we're not gonna be *******s about it," even though the entire thing had been a strongarm tactic by them that had basically backfired.

More people need to know about what they want. Moonstone's gonna go under some time in the next few years, and people need to know that Dynamite is a bully publisher with even fewer ethics than the rest of them, and not the kind of business that a society interested in morality should support.
 
I just put the Moonstone Phantom series on my pull list at my shop earlier this week when I saw they were publishing a #0 issue to catch new readers up. I always liked the Phantom but never really read any of his comics.
 
I just put the Moonstone Phantom series on my pull list at my shop earlier this week when I saw they were publishing a #0 issue to catch new readers up. :up:
You're a good man. Moonstone, and their much more faithful vision of the Phantom, need all the support they can get from the market.
 
It's a pretty low-key series, it seems. I don't even remember seeing the Moonstone series on Diamond's weekly lists before the #0 issue.
 
It's a pretty low-key series, it seems. I don't even remember seeing the Moonstone series on Diamond's weekly lists before the #0 issue.
Wouldn't surprise me if they didn't list Moonstone. They're that ground-level. These guys are in it for the love, and you can tell that by what characters they've licenses, and how well they've treated them. They do great stuff with Kolchak, for example. Some fun Sherlock Holmes as well.
 
I'd love for you to tell me about Spider-Man's Dick Grayson, his Tim Drake, his Alfred, even his Jason Todd. We know who his Catwoman is, I suppose, since she's kind of an embarrassingly straightforward ripoff of Catwoman.

Spider-man doesn't have friends who are manservants and side-kicks or wards. He has friends. As for the Black Cat. Nobody complained about about how hot she was. And she still became a better friend/ex-girlfriend.

Which he does, but part of what makes him interesting is the concept that he might be entirely wrong. Morrison just told a hell of a story about that very thing in Batman RIP that nobody got for the exact same reasons that the same people don't get Final Crisis.

Saying you'd rather Batman be more perfect is (for one thing shocking, from a Marvel fan) like saying you'd rather Frank Castle had a more thought-out strategy for attacking the root causes of crime. The point of him as a character is to explore the psychoses that make him.

Nobody said the point of Batman was his psychosis. He's a vigilante who dresses up in a costume. But the fact that he has so many other resources than Frank and is still so morbid doesn't do well for the guy.

You don't like rich white men who try to be vigilantes, but you love the guy who revels in his rich-white-guyness? You are a puzzle, my friend.

Not at all. I think Tony Stark is keeping 'it real' as opposed to a Bruce who shouldn't have to hide that he's nuts, because rich people usually are eccentric.

Yeah, if you call Frank Castle sane, you need to read the Ennis Punisher and the Grant Punisher. There's nothing remotely sane about Frank Castle. But there's a lot awesome about Frank Castle. And what's awesome about him is that he's a little bit nutty.

I read the early "Punisher War Journal" and "The Punisher" comics. He wasn't crazy then. But it seems both Marvel and DC prefer to make their heroes a lot nuttier.
 
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nobody'd want spidey's problems
his agility on the other hand is a different story
 
Because that's what functional means! Functional means never airing your grievances and letting them give you an ulcer and slowly make you so ****ing crazy that you get dangerously enmeshed and sell your marriage to save the life of this awful old ****-and-piss-factory ****e of a woman. :woot::woot::woot::pal::lmao::ghost::bomb:

So good to know that Peter still has the healthier family relationship.

So he's less pimpin' than Batman. Thought you liked the billionaire playboy thing.

Good grief, you're equating marriage to pimping.

Creepy, sicko, ****ed-up love. But I will say that the more I think about it, the more it totally fits with his character and the years of sublimated emotion that never showed itself good God his relationship with his aunt isn't right.

That's why the deal with Mephisto was dumb, as I already wrote.

Batman, meanwhile, hangs out with Superman so often they have an ongoing comic together that I think has breached the 50-issue mark or will soon, and they had another one back in the day called World's Finest that was like 200 issues. They've also got a comic book going with Wonder Woman that transcends the very icy grip of death to keep Batman hanging out with his buddies a little bit longer.

So what? Are you saying having few but cooler friends is better than having a better relationship with many more friends? DC could write the same World's Finest relationship in a Brave and the Bold comic. Better yet, just write about a lunatic whose best friend is truly Jesus Christ. That would make him the swellest guy in the whole world no matter what anybody says about him.
 
Dude I don't get that. I get that he made a valid point that's up for debate. Not saying I agree with him but he's just making his point.

He says that Bruce could and should go see a psychiatrist, because he can afford it. Now, really, if there's anyone who thinks Bruce would be 'cured' by a few session with Dr. Freud, he/she does not get the character. It's not a valid point in the least.

As well as stating, roughly, that Bruce shouldn't hide the fact that he's Batman? Since, and I quote, 'rich people are usually eccentric?'. You know what someone who says that is doing? Not getting it.
 
Spider-man doesn't have friends who are manservants and side-kicks or wards.
OK, I didn't realize you'd never actually read Batman. We can't really go much farther until you read some Batman.

Nobody complained about about how hot she was.
...I don't...I'm not...what?

And she still became a better friend/ex-girlfriend.
Again, you don't read Batman! You never did!

Nobody said the point of Batman was his psychosis.
I did. And that is the point. To me, at any rate.

But the fact that he has so many other resources than Frank and is still so morbid doesn't do well for the guy.
They're driven by similar events to similar actions, with one very marked difference (lethality.) Resources and wealth don't come into it. Wealth just allows Bruce Wayne to have more gadgets and tech.

Not at all. I think Tony Stark is keeping 'it real' as opposed to a Bruce who shouldn't have to hide that he's nuts, because rich people usually are eccentric.
I don't know what you're talking about. You said you don't like the rich-white-guy motif of Batman, but you love Iron Man, who is just an unashamed rich-white-guy who doesn't even care that he's a rich white guy.

I read the early "Punisher War Journal" and "The Punisher" comics. He wasn't crazy then. But it seems both Marvel and DC prefer to make their heroes a lot nuttier.
The Punisher has been psychotic since his first miniseries under Steven Grant. That's the mini that defines the character. So yes, he was crazy, you just didn't see it because you need your characters to line up perfectly with how you want them presented. Also, strapping a few guns and going to war with the entire mob? That's ****in' crazy.
 
So good to know that Peter still has the healthier family relationship.
Yeah, I don't know how you could possibly interpret what Peter did as "healthy."

Good grief, you're equating marriage to pimping.
No I'm NOT. Are you dense or something? I'm comparing marriage to pimping, and I'm not comparing it to literal pimping. I'm comparing it to the pop-culture concept of "pimpin'," which means "ladies' man."

That's why the deal with Mephisto was dumb, as I already wrote.
Yeah, well, Batman never did it.

So what? Are you saying having few but cooler friends is better than having a better relationship with many more friends?
Some people would say yes. Some people would say you only need a few friends. I know a few people who, whenever I try to get them to come out of their shells, tell me that they don't need more than a few friends. I don't get it, but whatever. To each their own. Batman is not the kind of guy who seems to want a lot of friends. He wants to get his job done. Again, Frank Castle doesn't have friends. At all. None. Not even that little **** who used to help him out with tech in the 90s--that guy betrayed him. But I don't hear you talking **** on Frank.
 
He says that Bruce could and should go see a psychiatrist, because he can afford it. Now, really, if there's anyone who thinks Bruce would be 'cured' by a few session with Dr. Freud, he/she does not get the character. It's not a valid point in the least.

As well as stating, roughly, that Bruce shouldn't hide the fact that he's Batman? Since, and I quote, 'rich people are usually eccentric?'. You know what someone who says that is doing? Not getting it.

Well since you put it like that, you are right.
 
I don't feel like I'm doing a good enough job, though. Like he'll still be able to weasel through it and be all like, "BUT pSYCHIAtrY!"
 

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