XtremelyBaneful
xoxxxoooxo
- Joined
- May 11, 2012
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ohhhhhh I see. I guess the timing of it all is what confuses me. it wasn't until last year that it was announced Ayelet Zuhrer was coming back, right? and a lot of the show was already filmed by then. So were there scenes that Sandrine Holt filmed that got cut, or were Vanesa's scenes just intentionally filmed so much later?
I dunno. but this thread has restored some faith for me that season 2 will have more connection to the Netflix show, since it'll be the first season not shackled to the idea of a reboot but instead fully embrace continuing Netflix. bring on Brett & Marci~
hey, man. I read your whole post, and I agree with a lot of your points. I'm a harsh critic, and I also love Daredevil, so my standards and expectations for Born Again were also very high. here are my responses to you:
1.-Why does Bullseye go after such a complicated revenge against Matt instead of going after Kingpin?
I wondered the same thing but since the scenes will Bullseye were part of the reshoot, I think we had to wait until much later (I just caught up to episode 8) to find out what that was about. Right now the suspicion is that Vanessa may have hired Bullseye, but we still don't know for sure.
2.-Why does Karen leave? Given she is not weak, doesn't run away from issues and doesn't just abandon those she cares about, as evidenced in previous seasons and during Punisher, why does she decide to just leave now when Matt needs her? Why was Matt unable to open up to her given how much character development he had in the previous seasons (in particular, season 3)?
I agree with you here. there is no "good" reason as to why she left, but the show dictated her absence since, again, episode 1 was a reshoot. maybe she'll be in the finale, but I wouldn't count on it.
3.-Why is Maggie nowhere to be seen?
Agreed with you there 100%. she's Matt's mother, it makes absolutely no sense storytelling-wise not to have her there. I put her in the same group as Marci, Bretty, & Turk for characters who deserved to have gotten a call to the actors to return. hopefully she'll be back in season 2.
4.-How is it that Vanessa is now Queenpin? What kind of off-screen character development happened and why am I supposed to just accept it as a viewer without ever getting to know what she went through exactly?
During Ramadan, I was showing my wife seasons 1-3, and she brought up an interesting point that I never thought of when I watched it myself the first time: Vanessa never agreed to any of Daredevil's demands that he made with Kingpin at the end of S3. she could have continued Kingpin's malice in his place, and as far as off-screen development goes, I think they implied that Kingpin was blipped. but I can't remember if he showed up in a flashback scene during Echo.
5.-How is the city voting for Kingpin with all of his history? Is Disney truly trying to make the audience buy this is how politics work and that's why the orange man got elected? (I know this was filmed way before it but this is Disney and they could've been referencing 2016).
I agree with you here too. I find this to be really ridiculous considering that the NYPD hated him and by the end of the Netflix show, the FBI probably should have too. I'm gonna guess that Kingpin just took advantage of all the time that had passed with the blip, and because so many other things went on, people kind of just moved on or experience a mass-forgetting of it, if that makes sense.
6.-Why should I care about what the individuals BB chooses to interview have to say about the city? After all, she does seem to interview just about anyone who wants to speak, no matter if they have any valuable insight. This could have been shown through other ways like just literally showing what is happening instead of having someone tell you.
For now I did not feel that much weight to the BB report, although I do wanna point out:
having her be Ben’s niece instead of her daughter raised a few more questions.
Like, why wasn’t she and her family at his funeral so many years ago? I think it would have made more sense to go with making her his daughter that he had to send away because he was getting threatened. And after he died, his wife unfortunately just forgot about her because of her memory, and therefore she didn’t find out about his death until much later. But I guess since she’s the niece, she gets to refer to him as Uncle Ben.
They also just totally sidelined New York Bulletin in favor of New York Examiner, so Mitchell Ellison's another character that unfortunately got the boot.
7.-What is the purpose of the weird guy that follows Fisk so blindly? He seems to have no personality besides following Wilson, is he a parody of something or someone? If so, does he somehow work as a character beyond a parody?
You're right about Daniel, but to be fair, that's pretty much what Wesley was too. Daniel just seems to be a younger, immature Wesley, and Buck is filling that role. But you're right, the guy doesn't have much personality and they never gave much of a backstory about why he's so loyal to Kingpin in the first place.
Episode 2:
1.-Why is Kingpin all of the sudden unable to understand anything about politics or people's interests without having someone explain it to him? It's not like with Wesley when he genuinely had some insight. Here, Kingpin seems genuinely clueless.
To be honest with you, I think he has considered being mayor ever since season 1 of Daredevil. Think back to then, about how he said "this city needs to die before it can be reborn..." and he had this big, grand, master plan, and then the flashbacks of his dad running for the local government. but they don't know show it conspicuously until the end of Echo.
if he's known how to manage the criminal underworld single-handedly, I suppose he'd be capable of doing the same for running the city, albeit in a crooked way.
Episode 2:
1.-Why is Kingpin all of the sudden unable to understand anything about politics or people's interests without having someone explain it to him? It's not like with Wesley when he genuinely had some insight. Here, Kingpin seems genuinely clueless.
I'd like to believe that she is playing the long-game. And I didn't think that she knew about Kingpin killing Ben but it's confirmed in episode 8, so it really doesn't make sense how she wasn't enraged sitting there in front of him in this episode, or how she could even be friends with Daniel.
3.-Why does Wilson go to the funeral of a cop knowing they hate him? Why does he not realize that is a subpar move, especially for him?
4.-Why is the commissioner surprised when he gets blackmailed by Fisk after he himself tells him off in his face for being a corrupt piece of s**t (not his literal words)? Is he dumb?
I'll answer both of these questions at once by just saying: Kingpin was only at the funeral for an ulterior motive, and that was to bend the commissioner to his will. I don't think the commissioner is dumb, but a lot of these characters aren't used to how intelligent and manipulative Kingpin can be, so the commissioner just underestimated him.
6.-Why does Matt not escape through the window with his witness? After all, it's not like he bought him any time, he just opens the door for them and they weren't trying to open it by force prior to that, so... Why? Was he looking for a fight? If so, why? Has he gone mad with the punching thirst?
He didn't escape threw the window because he probably was giving those dirty cops the benefit of the doubt. He wasn't looking for a fight. But I gotta say, after the end of season 2, I thought there would be more consequences to this fight scene but that left a lot to be desired.
Episode 3:
1.-Why are we supposed to believe Cherry is some sort of talented investigator when he finds the White Tiger costume in a box literally under the Ayala's bed?
2.-By the way, why of all places does Hector hide it under his bed? Isn't this guy suppose to conceal his identity from loved ones? Are you seriously telling me the wife never looks below the bed she sleeps?
I'll answer these two questions at once: it definitely was quite silly that Hector's white tiger suit was basically not even hidden away. As for Cherry, I'm fine with him being the one to find it honestly; just replace all of Cherry's scenes with Brett Mahoney and I'm just fine with how the show has played out with Daredevil's police connect. My issue is that they didn't bring Brett back.
3.-Also, why is Mcduffie a great lawyer? So far and during this whole court case she does f**k all. In a similar case with the Punisher in season two, Foggy is far more involved and we even see him argue in court. Here, she is just said to be a great lawyer, but we never *see* her being a great lawyer, why should we believe it?
I like this character and I'm interested to see how she develops but yes so far she is a little underdeveloped. I'll step in once more and say it should have been Marci who became Matt's law partner. I think by now she would have married Foggy, and that way Matt's law firm could have continued the "Nelson & Murdock" name & legacy. Kirsten could have been a partner and then eventually they add her name to the law firm too. As it is right now, I feel like you could replace Kirsten with Marci, just like how you could replace Cherry with Brett. So my problem here is that they just didn't bring Marci back.
4.-Why does the witness backpedal? His life was already in danger, why now? If he gets killed now, it's even more suspicious and far more public, was he not informed of this? If so, why? Isn't Matt used to handling these kinds of things? Especially with Nadeem and all he went through, I mean, why? Just why?
100% agreed with you here, this was extremely unsatisfying considering we never saw that witness again; I figured there was a reason why he backpedaled (maybe he feared for his life from the corrupt cops) but that's it; we don't see him again. stashing him and going through the trouble of transporting him was such a waste of time and resources.
5.-The whole court case made me lose neurons, how in the world does it make sense in the slightest? And not from the sense of whether or not it has precedents in the real world but more in the sense of clever script writing by a billionaire company? I mean, it kind of looks like a parody of Better Call Saul.
6.-Why does it feel like Matt can't argue without losing his cool about vigilantism related cases? Where is Season 2 Matt who could do this to an extent whilst making sense?
Answering both of these at once: yeah I did not expect the court case to go that it did, but I was legit tense when the jury reached a verdict and I was so relieved when Hector was found not guilty. I also agree that it seems like Matt almost always throws a fit when he argues and it is kind of annoying to watch, I want to hope that future dialogue scenes won't have to incessantly be like that, at least not every single time.
8.-Does anyone else feel that White Tiger gets severely underused? Did Kamar's condition and his passing had to do with him not featuring any more than two episodes? If so, what a shame.
100% it feels like a lot of lost potential there. perhaps they are gonna set his niece up to be the next White Tiger, and I couldn't figure out if he had to be killed off because of what was happening to him in real life. either way, Rest in Peace to Kamar de los Reyes.
9.-Also, why kill him in the same way that Deadpool kills Deadpool in that post-credit Deadpool 2 scene? I mean, couldn't you do it in a far more serious way? I don't know, maybe having watched both scenes has got to do with why I found it funny more so than tragic.
yup, I low-key felt that way too. that added to the all-of-a-sudden lost potential for the character as well. like, right after he's found not guilty and gets to reunite with his family, he doesn't even have one night of piece and now his family will continue to suffer, for much longer.
Episode 4:
1.-Why is Leroy a character? Am I suppose to know him from somewhere? What does he add to the plot? Why does it feel like Disney is trying to paint him with nuance only to ultimately fail at doing so? I mean, he steals, he insults Matt before and after he gets his sentence lowered and justifies stealing because he "wants something nice every now and then"? I am paraphrasing but it was something along those lines, I kind of understood that he's being treated unfairly by the police but I don't get any reason to root for him as he seems to be a guy that made his own luck, in other words, he got into everything he's being accused of. Also, why is his story relevant to the rest of the plot? What is so important?
my only issue with Leroy is that this was the perfect opportunity to bring Turk back. it would have been funny & ironic since Matt has had many run-ins with Turk as Daredevil, but never in a suit & tie. No knock against the actor who portrayed Leroy because he really got me thinking about real life issues when he mentioned it's more expensive to lock him up then to give him food stamps and the former is his fate. but just replace Leroy with Turk, and I'd have no issues here.
2.-By the way, who is that lawyer Matt spends like five minutes talking to? Should I care about her? Why does Matt tell her what she had for breakfast because he smelled it and convinces her "it's a blind thing"? Like, if a blind man walks up to me and smells what I had for breakfast and tries to sell me every blind person can do that, I am either calling the cops, getting a restraining order or calling him a Doctor because that's a Strange condition (sorry).
I think that scene was just to show how Matt operates when he's downtown as a lawyer, and also for him to flex is flirtatious side (that scene came off as flirtatious to me, but not enough to be considered cheating I guess)
3.-Is that it for Punisher? Was that his whole participation? Why in hell does he seem to not care at all about, I don't know... Punishing the cops using his badge as a gang sign?
I think I read somewhere that Jon Bernthal wasn't even interested in the original script of Born Again and only came back after the creative overhaul. so, yes, maybe that is all we get, but we know he's probably gonna get his own show down the line.
as for why he doesn't care about cops using his badge, yes, 100% I agree with you there. it was really friggin weird to me how he didn't want to step in and do anything about that. and the rest of the scene just becomes a therapy session for Matt after he punches Frank.
Episode 5:
Gonna answer all your questions here at once: I think this was one of the episodes from the original shoot that they just didn't want to waste. It does feel quite out of place for sure and definitely doesn't compare to Money Heist. With bringing Yusuf as a guest, they had another opportunity to connect the show to the Netflix show by mentioning Nadeem.
I know this would be a huge stretch of fan service but all it would take would be Yusuf saying something like he has a younger cousin named Seema who married a man named Rahul Nadeem and they have a son named Sami, and he knows that Matt and his late associate Foggy did all they could several years ago to help Nadeem and although he ended up dying, their actions still saved the lives of Seema & Sami.
Again: I know that would be a huge stretch of fan service, but it would have been easy to pull off just with that dialogue alone. It would have made sense since they're both Pakistani, too. Also, I don't Matt put on a British accent but an Irish one; I think he is of Irish heritage, and he was just doing the Irish accent to put on a play to the frontman on the walky-talky.
Episode 6:
Gonna answer all your questions here: I agree with you about Heather. To be honest, I don't like her character that much and the conversation about vigilantes, this deep into the MCU really doesn't make sense. maybe if we were somewhere in the first saga, but we're in the second (or third?) phase of the second saga now, post-Civil War, post-Endgame, so it's weird to hear a character talk about masked vigilantes as if it's still kind of an uncommon thing.
and as my wife pointed after all that talking: she asks for an interview with Punisher, who doesn't even wear a mask!
Over all:
as I said I am with you there about sister Maggie, and I also agree with the lack of Catholicism. Heather personally kind of pissed me off when she said she she saved herself as a rebuttal when Matt told her Daredevil was there to save her. she couldn't have saved herself if Daredevil didn't show up. honestly, she was pissing me off even before that when she knowingly took Kingpin & Vanessa as clients after all the traumatic history her boyfriend had with them. I hope he breaks up with her.
If they are going to do the Defenders eventually, Claire should be brought back; there are rumors Elektra will be back next season too. I didn't watch Echo to the end, so I can't comment on what you posted about there.
