Born Again Marvel Studios’ Daredevil: Born Again General Discussion Thread

[Herolee10]

Unless things escalate where Fisk has no choice but to have powered individuals on his side and it's just the Task Force, I don't think Matt team needs an Iron Man or a Hulk yet.

It could also create an interesting dynamic between Fisk and the Task Force. Would their loyalty to Fisk become less if he brings in powered individuals to help him take down vigilantes?

Deadpool and Wolverine could probably eliminate the entire task force and Kingpin within a day if given the chance.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

Now here's an interesting theory and I know a lot of people won't like it. What if this is where they re-introduce the Agents Of Shield? Clark Gregg posted on his Instagram about a month ago a picture of Phil Coulson with the caption "Let's Go". There's only two things filming at the moment I believe for the MCU. Daredevil and Doomsday. Doomsday is possible, but it would seem pretty crazy to bring back Phil Coulson and the rest of the AOS in a already packed movie unless it's cameos. Brad Winderbaum said awhile ago that he's trying to find a way to bring them back into the fold.

I think they can bring back Coulson as an LMD and not have to worry about paying the Whedon's for the rights. Bringing in Quake and thus Inhumans and tagging Muse as such would have been a way to explain why some kid taekwondo champion was able to hang with the Devil in hand to hand fighting. As a team the AoS unit have retired and split up and as more humans on the sidelines of major happenings really add little beyond, they have also been to the multiverse

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

Deadpool and Wolverine could probably eliminate the entire task force and Kingpin within a day if given the chance.

Perhaps she was saved when Maya healed Uncle Wilson and Hawkeye hasn't come back out like the Swordsman has.

 

[kguillou]

I havent read Daredevil comics in years, (since around the Mark Waid run) but just picked up the first volume of Chip Zdarsky's run and man, I am hooked. I didnt realize how much of Born Again took from this run but its really good so far, Chip really gets this character.

 

[Still Wynning]

Yikes. Welp, this explains why the AVTF and Frank scebe didn’t go any further than him calling them “clowns”.

I’m unbelievably blown away by the responsibility that I have in playing him,” Bernthal said. “I have a couple of Marine raiders with me tonight, I have some dear friends, Cody Alford, Colton Hill, that are with me tonight. I’m so grateful for the Marine Corps. and that community, for helping me on this journey, for helping me find this character. Some of the best people we have in this country have worn that Punisher skull on their body armor when they’ve taken that unbelievable walk into danger, to stand up for our country, and that’s something that I take enormously seriously. I’ll make the show for them, I’ll make the show with them. I just really really wanna get it right.”

Jon Bernthal Gets Real About Upcoming ‘Punisher’ Special Presentation: "Some of The Best People We Have in This Country Have Worn That Punisher skull on Their Body Armor"

And, apparently, this isn’t the first time he’s said something like this, where he basically pulls the whole “both sides” thing:
'The Punisher' appeals to both sides of the political spectrum — just the way Jon Bernthal likes it

I mean, I love him for supporting trans rights, saying “F**k them!” to Trump supporters and saying there should be respectful debate and discussion, but reading stuff like this and hearing that he’s a big supporter of IDF makes me feel just a bit..icky.

And after hearing him say how the special presentation he’s working on won’t hold back, I’m suddenly less enthused.

 

[LoganPool]

There's a pretty significant difference between alt-right trolls/dirty cops wearing the logo, and the brave men and women in our armed forces running into a warzone against actual terrorists wearing the logo. No one should be bothered by the latter.

 

[Elayis]

I have to say, I really don't like this game of gotcha that we seem to be playing as a culture. I understand where the impulse is coming from, when basic human rights of marginalized groups are under attack. But people are not perfect. It's not possible to convey every nuance on a topic in a fifteen second sound bite. The important thing to always keep in mind, is where is this person coming from. Are they capable of compassion and openness, where dialogue and understanding is possible, or are they just a bigoted zealot, spouting hateful rhetoric without any capacity for self examination or honesty?

To me, Bernthal seems like a guy that cares deeply about people, whoever they might be. His comments about the Punisher tattoo seem to be aimed at guys like Punisher_MAX, who understand what the skull was originally created to represent. Long before the symbol was co-opted by the alt-right and their anti-democracy nonsense, the Punisher stood for the fight against corruption and systemic failure. The character was created during the Vietnam War, and was a direct response to how the government sent tens of thousands of young men overseas to die for nothing, and abandoned the veterans of that war once they were no longer of use. Frank Castle's war was also against crooked cops, who were responsible for the murder of his family.

I think Bernthal's comment, and the message of the show, is an attempt to reclaim the Punisher's legacy, but does so in a clumsy and poorly worded way. I'm worried for the special presentation, too, but for different reasons. I didn't like much of anything about Born Again, but in particular the way that Frank was portrayed more like a charicature and an action figure than a properly nuanced character. That said, given that it'll have an entirely different creative team, I'm willing to give it a shot.

 

[blueharvest]

‘Daredevil: Born Again’ Directors on Their Successful Series Revamp and Season 2’s “Resistance Tale”

The five filmmakers — Justin Benson, Aaron Moorhead, Michael Cuesta, Jeffrey Nachmanoff and David Boyd — had the unusual task of putting together a season following a creative overhaul, and it went surprisingly smooth.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

 

[Deck Rickard]

Okay nitpick time. Neither of these things matter but they bother me for some reason.

Frank’s Punisher skull. It bugs me that it’s unfinished on the left side lol. The one in the Netflix show was kinda like that too but it was bigger and looked more complete. This one makes it look like he ran out of spray paint halfway through lol.

Matt’s beard. I don’t mind a little stubble but what is with the obsession lately with giving guys who wear masks full beards. I’m cool with Red Guardian having one because he’s supposed to looks silly but I would prefer Matt and US Agent to be clean shaven. I don’t know if anyone else feels this way.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

There's a pretty significant difference between alt-right trolls/dirty cops wearing the logo, and the brave men and women in our armed forces running into a warzone against actual terrorists wearing the logo. No one should be bothered by the latter.

Realistically NO ONE in the Armed Forces OR the Police Force should be sporting that skull.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

Okay nitpick time. Neither of these things matter but they bother me for some reason.

Matt’s beard. I don’t mind a little stubble but what is with the obsession lately with giving guys who wear masks full beards. I’m cool with Red Guardian having one because he’s supposed to looks silly but I would prefer Matt and US Agent to be clean shaven. I don’t know if anyone else feels this way.

I think it has to do with the "elite" soldiers of this generation have been characterized by their wearing of beards when deployed to war. That hero worship has resulted in more beard wearing by the general population and on screen that this guy isn't just a draftee grunt.

For Matt since Daredevil operates mostly in the dark it makes sense for the stubble but not the full-time kind of stubble but doesn't get too long as if you had a stylist to keep it just right, but always the same for filming continuity.

 

[Herolee10]

 

[Dr. Evil]

Not only should Luke, Danny and Jessica return, but also Brett Mahoney and Misty Knight and Colleen Wing.

Hopefully, Josie coming back is a sign that others like Brett, Sister Maggie and Marci and Turk return too.

 

[OrbOfConfusion]

I'd be fine without Finn Jones, honestly. Not if it was a new Iron Fist show, anyway. It's funny how between Defenders and Luke Cage, Danny Rand only came to life on a show that wasn't called Iron Fist. That's more on the writers and directors than Finn Jones, but he certainly didn't help.

 

[Sithborg]

There's a pretty significant difference between alt-right trolls/dirty cops wearing the logo, and the brave men and women in our armed forces running into a warzone against actual terrorists wearing the logo. No one should be bothered by the latter.

The Punisher kills. No trial. No jury. No due process. Everyone should be concerned that any person with the legal ability to kill if they wear the Punisher symbol. You cannot value the Punisher that much and be trusted to wield violence in a sensible manner.

 

[Elayis]

The Punisher kills. No trial. No jury. No due process. Everyone should be concerned that any person with the legal ability to kill if they wear the Punisher symbol. You cannot value the Punisher that much and be trusted to wield violence in a sensible manner.

Yeah, that was one thing that Ray Stevenson understood, that Frank is just as damaged as the criminals he kills, and not someone you should admire.

I kind of hate the term antihero now, because it's been so overused and watered down, but it used to mean that a character lacked traditional heroic qualities, who achieved their ends through criminal, mercenary or cowardly means. It's the point at which you cross a line and become the bad guy, like Two Face in TDK.

The problem is that when they are the main character, like Tony Soprano or Walter White, the audience unconsciously roots for them, and morality gets confused. It really sucks that media literacy is so low.

 

[Sithborg]

I have to say, I really don't like this game of gotcha that we seem to be playing as a culture. I understand where the impulse is coming from, when basic human rights of marginalized groups are under attack. But people are not perfect. It's not possible to convey every nuance on a topic in a fifteen second sound bite. The important thing to always keep in mind, is where is this person coming from. Are they capable of compassion and openness, where dialogue and understanding is possible, or are they just a bigoted zealot, spouting hateful rhetoric without any capacity for self examination or honesty?

To me, Bernthal seems like a guy that cares deeply about people, whoever they might be. His comments about the Punisher tattoo seem to be aimed at guys like Punisher_MAX, who understand what the skull was originally created to represent. Long before the symbol was co-opted by the alt-right and their anti-democracy nonsense, the Punisher stood for the fight against corruption and systemic failure. The character was created during the Vietnam War, and was a direct response to how the government sent tens of thousands of young men overseas to die for nothing, and abandoned the veterans of that war once they were no longer of use. Frank Castle's war was also against crooked cops, who were responsible for the murder of his family.

I think Bernthal's comment, and the message of the show, is an attempt to reclaim the Punisher's legacy, but does so in a clumsy and poorly worded way. I'm worried for the special presentation, too, but for different reasons. I didn't like much of anything about Born Again, but in particular the way that Frank was portrayed more like a charicature and an action figure than a properly nuanced character. That said, given that it'll have an entirely different creative team, I'm willing to give it a shot.

Not really. He was created at the time when the vigilante movie was on the rise. Dirty Harry. Death Wish. The Executioner. The original Walking Tall. And boy, you can do some deep analysis on why that was. I would be willing to bet that the Vietnam War wasn't exactly the direct inspiration.

 

[Spider-Fan]

They're very openly not shutting down the Defenders returning. Take that as they're at least trying take it happen

 

[kguillou]

If I had to venture a guess; they will appear but not until the season finale. They're gonna string us along throughout the season and have us wondering if they will show up and then they will at the last minute. And then season 2 will lead into a full on Defenders reunion series.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

If I had to venture a guess; they will appear but not until the season finale. They're gonna string us along throughout the season and have us wondering if they will show up and then they will at the last minute. And then season 2 will lead into a full on Defenders reunion series.

It was a late decision to go ahead and pay to use the Netflix adaptations, beyond the Murdock and Fisk actors in the show. And Disney + needing some content now saw the half season of a Frankenstein'd series get released.

I only know of the Iron Fist duo of Jessica Henwick and Finn Jones who were really vocal about continuing and all the other cops, friends, snitches, etc of the Defenders got dropped to save money and the not created (rights owned by me) by prejudice. With the MCU in trouble to pocketbook is opened back up and we will see who they can get back almost a decade since their last appearances.

However, the reported poor viewership numbers even with better critical reactions might just see a cut the losses movement form corporate

 

[Herolee10]

They're very openly not shutting down the Defenders returning. Take that as they're at least trying take it happen

With Season 2 currently filming right now, if they haven’t secured the Defenders cast by now, then it's definitely not happening next season.

The funny thing is that Born Again does a much better job of setting up the Defenders to come together than DD Season 2 did with the Hand and Elektra.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

The funny thing is that Born Again does a much better job of setting up the Defenders to come together than DD Season 2 did with the Hand and Elektra.

Iron Fist was supposed to take up a lot of that preparation job. But it was so poorly received that many skipped it entirely. Jessica Jones being basically a lone wolf character is only in the show because Netflix had done a show with her, and they were not likely to get other Marvel characters outside of the Daredevil and Iron Fist orbits to fill out the cast

 

[Spider-Fan]

With Season 2 currently filming right now, if they haven’t secured the Defenders cast by now, then it's definitely not happening next season.

The funny thing is that Born Again does a much better job of setting up the Defenders to come together than DD Season 2 did with the Hand and Elektra.

They set up the finae the way they did on purpose. I don't think they opted to go this route if they didn't have a good indication that it was happening, and if they knew it wasn't, they'd be setting us up for it not happening so we don't riot later

 

[Dr. Evil]

I can't see Matt's vigilante team just being him, the newly minted White Tiger (Angela Del Toro) and Frank Castle and possibly Kate Bishop, so street level heroes from the Defendersverse has to show up.

 

[Isub_Zero]

Finished watching the season and... It was OK, but i feel like there are way too many characters in the show, and the main cast is way too big. And if we're gonna get some Defenders next season it's going to be even bigger, and i see no point for this. It's time to cut down on the number of the main cast of the show and on the number of the characters in the show. The Netflix series did it right, So can D+.