Marvels biggest RAW deal.

[Duran Man]

Yeah, not just Singer though. All X-Men besides Nightcrawler, Prof X, Magneto, Wolverine, Beast and Mystique have gotten a raw deal. So much potential that has been hardly explored or portrayed well.

Pretty much this.

 

[Sexy Magician]

Wait, Mandarin and Crimson Dynamo haven't been used, how can they have gotten a raw deal?

Mandarin? Seriously? Haven't you seen Iron Man 3? If you're going down the root of that wasn't really the Mandarin, (spoiler alert) that's crazy, it was still a version of The Mandarin and not a true representation, although I did like what hey did.

Crimson Dynamo was merged with whiplash to create Ivan Vanco in Iron Man 2.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

The real Mandarin hasn't showed up yet. We've only seen some of his henchmen, and he's been talked about.

 

[metaphysician]

Wait, Mandarin and Crimson Dynamo haven't been used, how can they have gotten a raw deal?

Um, yes they have. The fact that said adaptations haven't been comic-exact is irrelevant.

 

[Hmarrs]

That implies that they kidnapped the rights by force. That they are the bad guys committing a crime and Marvel are the good guys trying to save the day.

Marvel sold Namor, THEY sold him to Universal.

Universal didn't grab the rights and run off, they aren't in the wrong for keeping something that they paid for.

Now I would love a Namor movie and it sucks that they aren't doing it but they own him fair and square.

Sorry if I sound rude but I hate this attitude that any Marvel property not controlled by Marvel is being held hostage.

The various studios bought them so they have a right to them. If it wasn't for them buying what was for sale and building the genre then there'd be no Marvel Studios.

I could be wrong but what I think he means is that they are not interested in using him at this point for what the purchase was for but are not letting the character go based off of wanting to use him as an investment.(I think thats what he meant as a ransom).

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Crimson Dynamo was merged with whiplash to create Ivan Vanco in Iron Man 2.

Yep

The real Mandarin hasn't showed up yet. We've only seen some of his henchmen, and he's been talked about.

That's just a cop-put imo. They did that because of the reaction, if people didn't freak out over the Mandarin twist then Killian would have remained Mandarin.

People hated it so they changed it so that there's a real Mandarin out there, and if people hate that well they can say there's a "realer" Mandarin out there

 

[Iron_Stark]

Regardless of how many people disliked the IM3 twist, the fact is, the real Mandarin hasn't shown up yet. Trevor dressed up as Mandarin and the real one broke him out of jail to 'talk' to him. That one-shot wasn't fan fiction or in a MCU comicbook tie-in like Rhodey showing up at the shwarma place or the same situation like Boba Fett escaping the Sarlacc in the comic or Chewbacca dying in the book. It's on film with Marvel/Disney approval and is cannon.

Whiplash/IVAN Vanko/Mickey Rouke's character got arguably the rawest deal in the whole MCU, and even though he used electricity in his whips, that still doesn't make him the Crimson Dynamo. His final suit wasn't even red, so how can anyone call him crimson?

 

[metaphysician]

Regardless of how many people disliked the IM3 twist, the fact is, the real Mandarin hasn't shown up yet.

No, the real one did indeed show up. He's the guy played by Guy Pierce, who was the main villain in the movie.

Its the 'real' Mandarin, with great big emphasis on scare quotes, that hasn't shown up. And hopefully never will, unless its to be punked by some random superhero even harder than Trevor was.

 

[The.Brotherhood]

No, the real one did indeed show up. He's the guy played by Guy Pierce, who was the main villain in the movie.

Its the 'real' Mandarin, with great big emphasis on scare quotes, that hasn't shown up. And hopefully never will, unless its to be punked by some random superhero even harder than Trevor was.

Watch 'All Hail the King'

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Well since there's a long list of characters I'll just list the black characters.

Storm - Is supposed to be a powerful matriarch but instead we get Minnie Mouse.

War Machine - another character who should be intimidating played by meekish actors.

Black Panther - it's almost phase 3 and no official word on a movie. Stop toying with us and announce the movie already!

 

[Iron_Stark]

No, the real one did indeed show up. He's the guy played by Guy Pierce, who was the main villain in the movie.

Its the 'real' Mandarin, with great big emphasis on scare quotes, that hasn't shown up. And hopefully never will, unless its to be punked by some random superhero even harder than Trevor was.

Like The.Brotherhood said, go watch "All Hail the King" and then READ and concentrate very hard on the last sentence of the of that paragraph. Here I'll post it again.

It's on film with Marvel/Disney approval and is cannon.

Trevor and Killian were both fakes.

 

[Green Goblin]

The real Mandarin hasn't showed up yet. We've only seen some of his henchmen, and he's been talked about.

I thought Killan was the MCU Mandarin?

"You want the Mandarin? Your looking right at him"

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I thought Killan was the MCU Mandarin?

"You want the Mandarin? Your looking right at him"

That was probably the original intention, at least according to Shane Black. But it has since been retconned in All Hail the King.

"Jackson Norris: I'm not the one that's going to kill you, Mr. Slattery. I'm here to break you out.

Trevor Slattery: That's... nice?

Jackson Norris: Not really. You see, there's somebody who wants to meet you.

Trevor Slattery: Do I know him?

Jackson Norris: No. But you took his name... and now he wants it back."

 

[metaphysician]

All Hail The King can sit and swivel for all I care. The Mandarin in IM3 is Aldrich Killian, who is a far better villain than any washed up nut in the desert. The fact that said "real Mandarin" *couldn't actually do a damn thing about a guy appropriating his name and organization* says all their really needs to be said.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

You might not like All Hail the King, but it is canon. And it does nothing to diminish Killian as a villain.

 

[Ant-manic]

You might not like All Hail the King, but it is canon. And it does nothing to diminish Killian as a villain.

the implication is that Marvel was ashamed of the Iron Man 3 (and that they caved in to the fan backlash). so they went the cop-out route. if i were Guy Pearce, i'd be pissed.

 

[metaphysician]

You might not like All Hail the King, but it is canon. And it does nothing to diminish Killian as a villain.

It also doesn't change that Killian is the Mandarin. The fact that there might be some other, inferior, villain out there calling himself the Mandarin too is irrelevant.

 

[Visualiza]

I think that we all assume a bit too much with regard to AHTK's impact on the MCU. Even though quite a bit of info was doled out, it was far too vague to deduce anything conclusive. When Norriss had mentioned something about having an influence as far back as the Middle Ages, that's when I realized that it could still be anything.

For all we know, the Ten Rings were still made up by Killian, and all of this hoopla about being a shadowy figure from hundreds of years ago was just an elaborate story to rein in devout zealots. I would die laughing if there was a continuation of this one shot where Trevor was brought before a dark throne, and when the guy sitting in it stepped forward, it turned out to be Killian again. The Mandarin could even be a statue or a cave painting, for all we know.

My point is, to those of you asserting that there's a 'real Mandarin' floating around out there because of what Norriss said, don't be so quick to assume that what you believe is right, because nobody really knows for sure. We've been down that road before, and look how that turned out the first time.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

We obviously don't know where this storyline is headed. We can only go off of the information that we have at this particular point in time. And what we were told in the most recent film is that Killian was a fake and the real Mandarin is still out there.

Could they re-establish that Killian was the true Mandarin after all? Sure. But that's not how things stand right now.

 

[Visualiza]

See, my issue with the info we supposedly have is that we only have a dubious source of that information in the first place. At least in the movies, there's context and a plot that supports the revelations, but with AHTK, all we have to go on are the words of a fundamentalist foot soldier, which are very likely influenced by skewed doctrine and propaganda. In other words, a character like Norriss is told what to think, he isn't an innovator, conspirator, or visionary. It's painfully obvious by the way he talks - "You'll soon suffer horribly with a hole in your body for every ring of our faith" I don't know about anyone else, but those sound like the words of someone who is very easily manipulated to me, thus I refuse to take them at face value until we get something more conclusive. When Killian says "I'm the Mandarin", I believe it because the film clearly shows how he orchestrated all of the events leading up that point. With Jackson Norriss, it's entirely within the realm of possibility that he's still swinging from some myth that was fabricated by Killian at one level or another.

Sure, it could be a guy, but he's likely another perpetrator himself, because he certainly hasn't been alive since the middle ages (unless he's Asgardian, meaning Iron Man could never hope to be a match for him). The idea that it's some title that has been passed down throughout the generation is plausible, but again, we can't make any solid conclusions because nothing that has happened confirms as much.

Personally, I think this whole thing was as Pearce said - just an excuse to have another go at Trevor Slattery as a character. The funny thing about that is that nobody seems to give a damn about Trevor in his own one shot (or the other interesting things, such as Justin Hammer and Seagate Prison), but rather the idea of another villain lurking in the shadows. I guess he failed in that respect, but I know I thought the short was hilarious, and I still enjoyed IM 3 for what it was. Being brutally honest, I don't expect to ever hear from any sort of Mandarin ever again in the MCU. If the speculation is correct and he is out there somewhere, then everything that has happened up to now doesn't exactly set him up to be a compelling villain for Tony Stark, because for the time being, the people he would be targeting are the perpetrators related to the Ten Rings fiasco. Why on earth would Tony Stark get in the middle of that? He'd be doing him a favor, and more over, for what reason would the 'real Mandarin' have for making an arch-rival out of Tony Stark in that case? They have the same enemy if the speculation is in any way accurate.

I'm not completely averse to the idea, because where there's a will...there's a way, and if a clever premise could be written up then it would of course make for an interesting movie, but right now...I'm just not seeing it.

 

[Green Goblin]

You might not like All Hail the King, but it is canon. And it does nothing to diminish Killian as a villain.

Well it doee. All the social-political commentary in Iron Man 3 is pointless because of All Hail The King. What's done is done, are people really wanting to see the "real, real Mandarin" in IM4? It's silly to do that, may as well explain that IM3 was just a story Tony made up to Bruce.

 

[Moridin]

Well it doee. All the social-political commentary in Iron Man 3 is pointless because of All Hail The King.

Uhhhh, no. Nothing within IM3 has been changed by AHTK. The possibility of there being a "real" Mandarin out there doesn't change the fact that Killian still organised everything that happened, it doesn't change Trevor playing a part that was written by Killian, it doesn't make Killian saying "I am the Mandarin" wrong because as far as he is concerned he is.

None of that is changed by AHTK.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Uhhhh, no. Nothing within IM3 has been changed by AHTK. The possibility of there being a "real" Mandarin out there doesn't change the fact that Killian still organised everything that happened, it doesn't change Trevor playing a part that was written by Killian, it doesn't make Killian saying "I am the Mandarin" wrong because as far as he is concerned he is.

None of that is changed by AHTK.

 

[Green Goblin]

Uhhhh, no. Nothing within IM3 has been changed by AHTK. The possibility of there being a "real" Mandarin out there doesn't change the fact that Killian still organised everything that happened, it doesn't change Trevor playing a part that was written by Killian, it doesn't make Killian saying "I am the Mandarin" wrong because as far as he is concerned he is.

None of that is changed by AHTK.

Well that's not what I mean. IM3 stated that The Mandarin is something that represents the Western World's fears in the 21st Century e.g terrorism, anti-democracy. Killian embodied those ideas but not the way which you would imagine (Trevor's version is what you would think).

This is thrown out the window when there actually is a "racist", "stereotype" villain out there.

 

[Jasyn]

I don't think that Namor is stuck at Universal, so much as they are most likely holding him hostage for major a $$$$ investment from a Disney/Marvel buyback.

I can't see a stand alone Namor movie being extremely successful regardless of which studio made it, but rather him as future character in an Avengers or Fantastic Four movie (like was done with the Silver Surfer). I just have a personal dislike for the character in general.

That implies that they kidnapped the rights by force. That they are the bad guys committing a crime and Marvel are the good guys trying to save the day.

Marvel sold Namor, THEY sold him to Universal.

Universal didn't grab the rights and run off, they aren't in the wrong for keeping something that they paid for.

Now I would love a Namor movie and it sucks that they aren't doing it but they own him fair and square.

Sorry if I sound rude but I hate this attitude that any Marvel property not controlled by Marvel is being held hostage.

The various studios bought them so they have a right to them. If it wasn't for them buying what was for sale and building the genre then there'd be no Marvel Studios.

I could be wrong but what I think he means is that they are not interested in using him at this point for what the purchase was for but are not letting the character go based off of wanting to use him as an investment.(I think thats what he meant as a ransom).

LOL! Yes, Thanks Hmarrs that was basically my meaning. I wish had kept up with this thread earlier and had the chance to respond for CyclopsWasRight.

It just plain sucks to see any part of the Marvel Universe tucked away and not being used (even the characters I'm not very fond of). Agreed = Universal didn't cheat, swindle or otherwise steal from Marvel. It was a business deal that made sense to Marvel back in the day. Currently, Universal is just sitting on the Namor property and letting it go to waste.