Marvel's Black & Minority Characters: Roundtable Discussion

[spideyboy_1111]

I'm still waiting for someone to give me the lowdown on what happened in the battle between Storm and Clor? Or did that issue not street yet?

next week

 

[Varient]

next week

But we all know what happens because Clor is finally destroyed by Herc.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

But we all know what happens because Clor is finally destroyed by Herc.

do we? we just know storm isnt killed nor the clone

 

[Varient]

do we? we just know storm isnt killed nor the clone

i believe she'd have to destroy that thing to win,... so she either lost or it was a draw.

 

[Anubis]

Blood Syndicate and Xombi.

Thanks, were they any good?

 

[T'Jai]

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11257150#post11257150
I apologize LS for hijacking your thread
Go here if you were involved with the racism discussion let's keep it civil or it will be closed REAL quick...

 

[La The Darkman]

Seriously who?
Im not trying to start an argument but IMO Marvel's Black characters have always been way more streotypical.

I mean luke cage is like "superthug" prowler is "spiderthug" Black panther is "the black phantom" At least with DC they aren't all thugged out.

No offense but you clearly don't know whta you're talking about....

Luke Cage has never been Superthug except for in that Cage Max series (which I hated) If cage was white the term thug would never appear when his name was brought up, he'd be "blue collar" or something like that. t:

I don't know enough about Prowler to comment.

Black Panther is the first Black SUPERhero, he's a king, a genius, and amazing tactican, and one of the top martial artist in marvel comics.

Strom is a mutant African warrior goddess/queen.

Bill Foster was a genius level who came from a middle class background.

Prodigy is another genius from a middle class background.

Falcon I'll give you has some stereotyping going on, but only because of that stupid story about him being an ex pimp (which doesn't get referenced much)

Pulsar/Photon/Captain Marvel used to be a police officer who gained superpowers by accident.

Check this site out:
http://www.blacksuperhero.com/exhibits2.cfm

Compare the sheer number of black Superheros in Marvel to the number of them in DC.....Marvels Black Superheroes are more diverse, have done more in their respective universes and are just treated better......From what I've seen most African American comics fans prefer Marvel to DC by a wide margin.

 

[Dew k. Mosi]

My only issue with Luke Cage is the way Bendis writes him, which is thuggish and the verywhite boy Bendis's idea of how a strong black man talks. But then, Bendis has the adult Spider-Man talking exactly like his Ultimate Spidey who is not out of 10th grade yet, so that is a problem with Bendy's skills, not Luke's persona. Luke, actually, comes out very respectable and likeable. He does the right thing by Jessica Jones when they get pregnant, and he is almost like a brother to Danny Rand, the white Iron Fist.

 

[La The Darkman]

My only issue with Luke Cage is the way Bendis writes him, which is thuggish and the verywhite boy Bendis's idea of how a strong black man talks.

I'd agree with you if not for Luke's Background. He's a Black male from Harlem, who's been in prison. I don't see it as him as thuggish, but just as a tough guy from the streets....He really doesn't say anything different from what any other "tough guy" character might say, he's just uses different slang.

 

[hippy fascist]

I'd agree with you if not for Luke's Background. He's a Black male from Harlem, who's been in prison. I don't see it as him as thuggish, but just as a tough guy from the streets....He really doesn't say anything different from what any other "tough guy" character might say, he's just uses different slang.

that's the thing, people like luke do exist (non-bulletproof though ). If every black character was like him it would simply be a rascist stereotype. However, Luke does represent a proportion (albeit a small one) of black society. The important thing is that luke rises above his lot in life and improves himself. That's not a racial stereotype, that's a role model. Hell luke's speech in his new avengers tie-in is both eloquent and inspiring. He may have "talked jive" and been a walking stereotype in his early days but he has since been fleshed out into a great character, that's what we call progress

 

[King Namor]

Its marvel by a mile, they came up with the first black heroes, and still have the best. Also Black Adam is middleastern and not Black dude.

True, but Egypt is part of Africa... so I'm keeping him.

 

[King Namor]

I'd agree with you if not for Luke's Background. He's a Black male from Harlem, who's been in prison. I don't see it as him as thuggish, but just as a tough guy from the streets.....

So if I was to say black guys are all streetwise ex-cons from the ghetto, you wouldn't take that as a sterotype?

I think I like Marvel's street level characters... BP, Cage, Prowler, Patriot, Rage etceteras a little better but DC's powerful guys Steel, GL, Spectre are just a class above.

But IMO Spawn is by far the most well written and has a lot of depth and a great story. He also looks cool, has cool stuff, the best cape in comics and his eyes do that creepy smoking thing. Some other Image guys are pretty cool...

Battalion
Chapel
Rock
Sentinel
Shadowhawk
Star
Wu Tang Clan
The Buffalo Solier from Badlands
Stagger Lee

 

[Mr Sparkle]

My only issue with Luke Cage is the way Bendis writes him, which is thuggish and the verywhite boy Bendis's idea of how a strong black man talks. But then, Bendis has the adult Spider-Man talking exactly like his Ultimate Spidey who is not out of 10th grade yet, so that is a problem with Bendy's skills, not Luke's persona. Luke, actually, comes out very respectable and likeable. He does the right thing by Jessica Jones when they get pregnant, and he is almost like a brother to Danny Rand, the white Iron Fist.

hmm, well, seing as who Luke Cage started out as a pretty much a blaxploitation character, seems Bendis toned down the powerman background.
in fact, I think that for the place where he was born and where he still resides his lingo is actually pretty toned down.
sure, he is not Tony Stark, but he also isn't some lame stereotype.

 

[Fantasyartist]

Personally I think Marvel has been far more pioneering then say DC(not just with black superheroes but also Hispanic/Latino ones such as the White Tiger), or even gay or Soviet heroes. It's easy to forget just how "white-bread" the Marvel Universe was as recently as 1965(I.e before The Black Panther made his debut in #FF52) Full disclosure: I recently put up a portrait of the Panther on my dining room wall). Not only is he King of his own country( just as Namor the Sub Mariner and Thor are), but he is as rich as Tony Stark and as smart as Reed Richards of the Fantastic Four( you rarely saw a rich smart black person in comics back in the 1960s unless he was some kind of criminal!)
Although not an especial fan of Wesley Snipes, I did like his performance as Blade in the trilogy of films based on the 1970s vampire slayer( much better than Buffy.

 

[Fantasyartist]

PS If there is a single criticism of Marvel's position on this issue, it's that Asian American( and to a certain extent Latino and native American) heroes are underrepresented. I hope the mini-series about the new White Tiger(Tigress?) rectifies this!

Terry

 

[Zoken]

Hey, they're both represented in Runaways. Nico Minoru and Victor Mancha even have a thing going on... in fact of the six team members, only one of them is actually white (Molly's ethnicity is "mutant")

 

[kainedamo]

My only issue with Luke Cage is the way Bendis writes him, which is thuggish and the verywhite boy Bendis's idea of how a strong black man talks. But then, Bendis has the adult Spider-Man talking exactly like his Ultimate Spidey who is not out of 10th grade yet, so that is a problem with Bendy's skills, not Luke's persona. Luke, actually, comes out very respectable and likeable. He does the right thing by Jessica Jones when they get pregnant, and he is almost like a brother to Danny Rand, the white Iron Fist.

I agree with whoever said the term thug would not be applied to Luke Cage if he were white.

Do people call Daredevil a thug when he beats the crap out of teenagers, yelling at them to change their life?

Luke Cage is more like a black Clint Eastwood or a less disciplined Matt Murdock.

 

[RskimB]

Hey, they're both represented in Runaways. Nico Minoru and Victor Mancha even have a thing going on... in fact of the six team members, only one of them is actually white (Molly's ethnicity is "mutant")

What about Chase?

 

[kainedamo]

I'd actually say its a little racist to critisize Luke Cage for how he talks.

If a character is from Belfast and is given a Belfast accent with Belfast slang, its not necasserily just a stereotype but a representation of the truth.

Luke Cage is actually toned down from how alot of black men in the ghetto talk.

Stereotypes are usually exaggerated, not toned down.

 

[Eros]

True, but Egypt is part of Africa... so I'm keeping him.

Not everyone is in africa is black, you are aware of this?

 

[Won '08]

I'm going home so I'm gonna comment and leave.


Blacks make up less than one fifth of the population in the US, with the split along gender lines almost 60/40 with their being more women.

At LESS than 15% of the population,.. to say that blacks are more racist :

with more going to jail by both proportion and actual numbers for "crimes" than whites in the same situations,

more Blacks being shot or killed by law enforcement for the flimsiest of excuses, and

more blacks living below the poverty line by proportion of the population,

Add on the documented inate racism that was the part of what brought about affirmative action - the "seperate but equal" nonsense that had whites working and living with the same education as blacks at an estimated 25 to 85% difference in pay.

Where UNTIL THE 80's blacks were OPENLY REDLINED and Black-listed by Whites in areas that preventerd then to easily own property, buy homes or even GO TO THE SCHOOL OF thier choice,...

Racism is not just being vocal about your dislike for others.

I was forced to embarrass a white family who wanted to punish my son for noticing their white daughter. They wanted to make an example of him and label him for life as a sex offender at 17 years of age because the daughter and her friends said he acted innapropiately.
All that saved my son was the fact that the girl in question had filled three pages on my space.com about what kinda girl she was and what she wanted from my son,...

Her parents found out through the school councelors that their daughter drank, did drugs and had been screwing a slew of white boys prior to my son being dragged up for being a criminal.

All charges (which were based on the words of three teenaged white girls) were dropped and the girl was yanked out of school.

All that to say,.. that is an example of what Blacks for the most part live with everyday,.. the guilty until proven innocent routine that they face from too many whites DAILY.

You don't have to curse me using your mouth,.. you do it when you cut your eyes at me and suddenly change direction,.. you do it when you decide that I'm not "right for the job" even though I have proven I am much better than the white you'll have to train to do the job I could do cold, .. you do it when you follow me around in a place you don't think I belong to make sure I don't do wrong,.. you do it when you justify mlk day parties that have NO BLACK PEOPLE PRESENT as "harmless fun".

Bottom line: If you are white and believe that"whites are past racism and blacks somehow promote it"

I have to say you are uninformed and need to expand your circle of friends.

Peace.

I noticed...MWM totally ignored this post. Bad vibes from that level of inaction.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

What about Chase?

thats who he's saying was the only one...

molly's a mutant
karolina's an alien
nico's asian
victors a hispanic andriod
Xavin is a skrull
old lace is a dino...
chase is white

 

[Shockdingo]

that's the thing, people like luke do exist (non-bulletproof though ). If every black character was like him it would simply be a rascist stereotype. However, Luke does represent a proportion (albeit a small one) of black society. The important thing is that luke rises above his lot in life and improves himself. That's not a racial stereotype, that's a role model. Hell luke's speech in his new avengers tie-in is both eloquent and inspiring. He may have "talked jive" and been a walking stereotype in his early days but he has since been fleshed out into a great character, that's what we call progress

I agree with what you said , the thing is if all of his dialogue was based off of hip hop references etc, that'd be a problem. But by having him speak a bit different is a-ok with me
I haven't read much of him over the years, but I do like how he's grown from the yellow silk shirt "Sweet christmas!" yelling guy into a realistic human being (who just happens to be bullet proof, hangs with Spiderman and super strongt: )

 

[La The Darkman]

thats who he's saying was the only one...

molly's a mutant
karolina's an alien
nico's asian
victors a hispanic andriod
Xavin is a skrull
old lace is a dino...
chase is white

Molly is white.....She's a mutant but she's a white mutant, just like Storm is a Black Mutant.......arguments like that just irk me for some reason.

 

[hippy fascist]

I agree with what you said , the thing is if all of his dialogue was based off of hip hop references etc, that'd be a problem. But by having him speak a bit different is a-ok with me
I haven't read much of him over the years, but I do like how he's grown from the yellow silk shirt "Sweet christmas!" yelling guy into a realistic human being (who just happens to be bullet proof, hangs with Spiderman and super strongt: )

Exactly,some people hear one person say the word bigass once and suddenly they're a rascist stereotype. Fact of the matter is, many black people do still talk that way, especially those who have lived a life akin to luke cage's (pre-bulletproof ). You have to view the character as a whole rather than just picking on one sentence they said and starting a vendetta.