Marvel's Black & Minority Characters: Roundtable Discussion

[OZONE]

I think Marvels characters and on the back burner, but I dont think they are obsolete, pretty much in realism they are a reflection of or worlds diversity. There are more whites typically in the comic arena than browns or other colors, but that pretty much is the same throughout the world. Here is the problem, the minority characters are generally stronger than the white ones so development isnt really necessary, consider this. Storm, yes I know she is just easiest to explain the complexities, she is argueably the ultimate character. Now here me out. She is a female black sorceress/god/mutant who: is actually completely different than any other character ever created. Her powers are technically her period. She doesnt control the weather or patters, she is them. She is affected by Nature whether she wants to be or not, not the other way around which is the basis for practically every other mutant. Her powers dont come in how she controls them but how she controls herself. Even if she was happy on a perfect day, her immediate weather is reflecting a better degree of weather as its reflection, the weather doesnt just change when she is mad, therefore she is always ONE with nature and no other conjurer or elemental controller can come close. I know thor and she have fought and he is ALMOST a god, a hero who really isnt much without his hammer and his armor belt...if that is even logical. And how does the god of thunder and lightning control winds and weather? How does that work? electricity is not a weather phenomena it would exist without weather and thunder? ok uh that doesnt do anything but make a noise. Forge, Bishop, Shard and others' powers are also supreme level, Bishop has the ability to absorb anything into him and shoot it back out or release it, Forge can create any device he wants. Understand that just with these 3 black mutants Nothing in the world or universe could stop them, and its for this reason that these characters arent/dont need developement. There powers only depend on their opponent, the stronger the opponent the stronger they are not even by choice. Often these characters are given moral drawbacks or pasts that govern their powers, which is silly. They dont use more minorities because honestly there is no room, they have too many dumb non minority ones...they arent dumb because they arent minority its just that there is so many they are trying to appeal to everyone instead of making everyone appeal to them. If anyone really feels hurt or dismayed by the fact that they dont have or use blacks or others as much there is always civil courts that will make them modify themselves so speak up if it bothers u.

 

[rigel7soldiers]

Earlier someone brought up Dust, and I think she's actually a good character; It's her choice to wear an abaya, and she's not a big jerk about it, either. She's just religious, and I don't think it's racist at all for her to be that way, because there are actual people like that. And she isn't American, anyway...

I had no idea T'Challa had powers. Hm. Is that just a Black Panther thing, did T'Chaka have them, too?

I feel like The Falcon could use way more exposure. He's been Cap's pal for decades, and he's been kicked to the curb. He's also Harlem's resident superhero, and despite the overabundance of superheroes in the state of New York, apparently Marvel feels he can cover that area by himself.

 

[T'Jai]

he (falcon)is currently one of the stars of the now dead Cap's book so...

 

[Darthphere]

And squirl girl beat thanos

Its called a fluke

Um, no.

 

[Kitsune]

You know the whole Black Panther/Silver Surfer thing could be worse. They could have Show BP and SS in one frame, and the next frame the Surfer is on the ground unconscious.

 

[moraldeficiency]

You know the whole Black Panther/Silver Surfer thing could be worse. They could have Show BP and SS in one frame, and the next frame the Surfer is on the ground unconscious.

See I'd be much better with that. Then at least I could have reasoned that BP had some device to take out SS using his own power against him or something moderately believable, but having wrestling one up the power cosmic?

 

[RockSP]

but having wrestling one up the power cosmic?

Did you read the comic or are you just going off what others have said? Cuz Panther didn't actually beat him until the next issue and it wasn't with wrestling moves.

 

[deemar325]

I think Marvels characters and on the back burner, but I dont think they are obsolete, pretty much in realism they are a reflection of or worlds diversity. There are more whites typically in the comic arena than browns or other colors, but that pretty much is the same throughout the world. Here is the problem, the minority characters are generally stronger than the white ones so development isnt really necessary, consider this. Storm, yes I know she is just easiest to explain the complexities, she is argueably the ultimate character. Now here me out. She is a female black sorceress/god/mutant who: is actually completely different than any other character ever created. Her powers are technically her period. She doesnt control the weather or patters, she is them. She is affected by Nature whether she wants to be or not, not the other way around which is the basis for practically every other mutant. Her powers dont come in how she controls them but how she controls herself. Even if she was happy on a perfect day, her immediate weather is reflecting a better degree of weather as its reflection, the weather doesnt just change when she is mad, therefore she is always ONE with nature and no other conjurer or elemental controller can come close. I know thor and she have fought and he is ALMOST a god, a hero who really isnt much without his hammer and his armor belt...if that is even logical. And how does the god of thunder and lightning control winds and weather? How does that work? electricity is not a weather phenomena it would exist without weather and thunder? ok uh that doesnt do anything but make a noise. Forge, Bishop, Shard and others' powers are also supreme level, Bishop has the ability to absorb anything into him and shoot it back out or release it, Forge can create any device he wants. Understand that just with these 3 black mutants Nothing in the world or universe could stop them, and its for this reason that these characters arent/dont need developement. There powers only depend on their opponent, the stronger the opponent the stronger they are not even by choice. Often these characters are given moral drawbacks or pasts that govern their powers, which is silly. They dont use more minorities because honestly there is no room, they have too many dumb non minority ones...they arent dumb because they arent minority its just that there is so many they are trying to appeal to everyone instead of making everyone appeal to them. If anyone really feels hurt or dismayed by the fact that they dont have or use blacks or others as much there is always civil courts that will make them modify themselves so speak up if it bothers u.

Wha?! your kidding right?

Quick note Forge is Native American and it's debatable if Bishop is even "Black" in the African sense of the word, and too many black characters, guy theres barely enough at least any superheroes of any real significance. for every Storm we get Fasto, for every Luke Cage we get Rocket Racer, hell even when we get a black character of cosmic or godly level power it's Black racer who's basically a old black guy possessed by a New God riding on skiis, so he was never black to begin with.

Most Black heroes are usually kept in check when it comes to both power level and importance on a team, that's changing of course with Luke Cage leading the Avengers and Storm's leadership with the X-men, but make no mistake it's always known that the white hero is really in charge or just predisposed too lead. We all know Cyclops is top dog in the X-men as he should be and we know that Luke will get the boot as soon as Captain America is back from the grave. Even Patriot in Young Avengers is slowly but surely gonna be upsurbed by Hawkeye II. I don't think it's something most writers do on purpose, but the black hero is always gonna get short shrift.

 

[sandwraith]

Cage will only get the boot because of all the New Avengers he's sorely lacking in the history department. He doesn't have as much of a backstory as the fellow Avengers. Moreover Bendis writes him as a jerk. I much prefer his days as Power Man.

Patriot's only gonna get usurped because Hawkeye II is a single white female with legs and spunk. No, not even the Red, White and Blue can fight that.

Actually I was wondering how you guys feel about about minority characters' who's racial backgrounds aren't obvious? I really loved Jim Valentino's Shadowhawk (Paul Johnstone) and felt that he was an excellent character. While as Shadowhawk he did't do anything...I dunno how to say this with offending...distinctively "black" the way Luke Cage does. Same goes with Deathlok (one of my all time 90's faves) where the Deathlok cyborg was Michael Collins who was a very richly developed character. I guess Spawn counts too...but I don't really like Spawn.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Did you read the comic or are you just going off what others have said? Cuz Panther didn't actually beat him until the next issue and it wasn't with wrestling moves.

Read the issue. Didn't know we were only talking about one issue I thought we were talking about the event. It was stupid and shouldn't have happened. He used space kung-fu, clearly.

 

[T'Chaka]

"Most Black heroes are usually kept in check when it comes to both power level and importance on a team..."

-I've always felt that way too. The Black male super heroes are either a white hero's sidekick (i.e. Falcon, War Machine, Battlestar) or a just a C-list hero that might get his own title for a hot minute, but will primarily be doing cameos (i.e. Brother Voodoo, Night Thrasher, Deathlok) in other people's books. Recent events have seen to it that Black Panther and Luke Cage no longer fit these descriptions. I've also noticed that when Marvel DOES get around to creating a superhero who happens to be a brotha, they end up not being all that powerful. Panther, Blade & Cage all kick a** in their own right, but Marvel doesn't have any brothas on Thor's level. Honestly, most of Marvel's Black superheroes wouldn't even beat Spider-Man. A lot of them aren't any more powerful than the Punisher. Why is that? Marvel doesn't seem to have this problem when it comes to giving sistas super powers. Storm can control the weather. Monica Rambeau (don't know her alias right now) has all kinds of electromagnetic powers. Blade has a sword. Night Thrasher and Rocket Racer ride skateboards. Sweet.
-As far as teams go, it seems that most of the Black characters are just there for the sake of diversity. Marvel seems to be getting better at this with regard to Cage, Storm, and Panther, though.

 

[moraldeficiency]

"Most Black heroes are usually kept in check when it comes to both power level and importance on a team..."

-I've always felt that way too. The Black male super heroes are either a white hero's sidekick (i.e. Falcon, War Machine, Battlestar) or a just a C-list hero that might get his own title for a hot minute, but will primarily be doing cameos (i.e. Brother Voodoo, Night Thrasher, Deathlok) in other people's books. Recent events have seen to it that Black Panther and Luke Cage no longer fit these descriptions. I've also noticed that when Marvel DOES get around to creating a superhero who happens to be a brotha, they end up not being all that powerful. Panther, Blade & Cage all kick a** in their own right, but Marvel doesn't have any brothas on Thor's level. Honestly, most of Marvel's Black superheroes wouldn't even beat Spider-Man. A lot of them aren't any more powerful than the Punisher. Why is that? Marvel doesn't seem to have this problem when it comes to giving sistas super powers. Storm can control the weather. Monica Rambeau (don't know her alias right now) has all kinds of electromagnetic powers. Blade has a sword. Night Thrasher and Rocket Racer ride skateboards. Sweet.
-As far as teams go, it seems that most of the Black characters are just there for the sake of diversity. Marvel seems to be getting better at this with regard to Cage, Storm, and Panther, though.

Welcome to the hype, and I agree. Other than Rambeau there are no upper echleon black characters. Hey what ever happened to that guy they had during Infinity Crusade? the strong guy that could up his density?

 

[terry78]

Now when you have a brotha with the power of say, Sentry, that would be a good start. But they ain't about to do that...he has TOO much pull in that case. Storm is probably the only one that could take out hundreds if not thousands of enemies in one fell swoop but she never has the opportunity to do so. If there is an army of creatures all she has to do is create a typhoon or a lightning or hail storm to take them out.

 

[ANTOINE X]

I liked bishop with the long hair it breaks the stereotype that afro Americans look all the same with the bald air , I mean black panther, luke cage are already bald.... Altough I am also bald t:.

 

[Darthphere]

"Most Black heroes are usually kept in check when it comes to both power level and importance on a team..."

-I've always felt that way too. The Black male super heroes are either a white hero's sidekick (i.e. Falcon, War Machine, Battlestar) or a just a C-list hero that might get his own title for a hot minute, but will primarily be doing cameos (i.e. Brother Voodoo, Night Thrasher, Deathlok) in other people's books. Recent events have seen to it that Black Panther and Luke Cage no longer fit these descriptions. I've also noticed that when Marvel DOES get around to creating a superhero who happens to be a brotha, they end up not being all that powerful. Panther, Blade & Cage all kick a** in their own right, but Marvel doesn't have any brothas on Thor's level. Honestly, most of Marvel's Black superheroes wouldn't even beat Spider-Man. A lot of them aren't any more powerful than the Punisher. Why is that? Marvel doesn't seem to have this problem when it comes to giving sistas super powers. Storm can control the weather. Monica Rambeau (don't know her alias right now) has all kinds of electromagnetic powers. Blade has a sword. Night Thrasher and Rocket Racer ride skateboards. Sweet.
-As far as teams go, it seems that most of the Black characters are just there for the sake of diversity. Marvel seems to be getting better at this with regard to Cage, Storm, and Panther, though.

Not this again.

Have you guys seen my creation Soul Ghost?

 

[T'Chaka]

Not this again.

Have you guys seen my creation Soul Ghost?

Can't say that I've ever heard of it. Please enlighten me.

 

[Kitsune]

Wha?! your kidding right?

Quick note Forge is Native American and it's debatable if Bishop is even "Black" in the African sense of the word, and too many black characters, guy theres barely enough at least any superheroes of any real significance. for every Storm we get Fasto, for every Luke Cage we get Rocket Racer, hell even when we get a black character of cosmic or godly level power it's Black racer who's basically a old black guy possessed by a New God riding on skiis, so he was never black to begin with.

Most Black heroes are usually kept in check when it comes to both power level and importance on a team, that's changing of course with Luke Cage leading the Avengers and Storm's leadership with the X-men, but make no mistake it's always known that the white hero is really in charge or just predisposed too lead. We all know Cyclops is top dog in the X-men as he should be and we know that Luke will get the boot as soon as Captain America is back from the grave. Even Patriot in Young Avengers is slowly but surely gonna be upsurbed by Hawkeye II. I don't think it's something most writers do on purpose, but the black hero is always gonna get short shrift.

This isn't a new phenomena, even as pigemntaitionally challenged as I am I have noticed it. Back when I first started reading Avengers Monica Rambeau was an effective leader of the Avengers until editorial decided they wanted to bring Captain America back as leader. I remember reading that the writer at that time actually quit because editorial wanted him to make Monica incompetent, to hightlite how good Cap was. I pretty much dropped the Ultimate line when they killed off Gwen Stacy before we were even given a chance to like the character, but I seem to recall Ultimate Nick Fury was pretty cool.

 

[Darthphere]

Im writing a letter to DC and Marvel to make some token cosmic black characters like "Cosmic Brotha" And "Soul Ghost" maybe even "Galactic Gangbanger"

Can't say that I've ever heard of it. Please enlighten me.

First Soul Ghost sketch

Don't have a scanner at home so quality is crap. I just need to work out some costume details.

SOOOOOOUUUULLLLLLL GHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSTTTT

he has a clock necklace by request of The Leaguer.

For context purposes:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=243143&highlight=Soul+Ghost

 

[T'Chaka]

He just needs two teenage sidekicks and a monkey, then he'll be good to go.

 

[Varient]

And squirl girl beat thanos

Its called a fluke

.....................

No.

 

[PhotoJones]

What's with Soul Ghost's little circle above his soul crotch?

 

[Varient]

Not this again.

Have you guys seen my creation Soul Ghost?

Looks like :
Martian Manhunter?

Vision in cornrows?

Nice scatter effect with the light though.

 

[RockSP]

I don't think it's something most writers do on purpose, but the black hero is always gonna get short shrift.

"...at Marvel and DC" should have been at the end of that sentence. People should check out some independent comics if they want to see black characters created by black creators and thus most likely devoid of automatic stereotype syndrome. Kevin Grevioux's Vindicators, for example.

 

[Red Mask]

Soul Ghost looks like a cousin to the Black Racer. (Yes, he's black too.)

 

[ANTOINE X]

What's with Soul Ghost's little circle above his soul crotch?

what do u think t: