Mass shooting at Naval Yard in Washington DC

[Teelie]

I used the PATRIOT Act as an example of good intentions gone awry. It was a reaction to terrorism and it's unforseen consequences are becoming more and more obvious (the loss of privacy and the fear of terrorism always waiting around the corner).

What I meant to convey is what is the result of trying to take away the guns of these people who could react in a literally violent and explosive manner without first thinking through and finding the best way to manage it?

Realistically though how many of the people who hoard guns for some hostile takeover/end of the world scenario are behind mass shootings? Very few are. It's almost always someone that falls under one of four catagories:

The angry person who was fired from a job or felt wronged somehow. Sometimes they have a lot of guns but usually they aren't collecting until shortly before or after their termination.
The bullied teen who was pushed past their limits and retaliated. Almost always raids their parents gun cabinet and is not legally even supposed to possess the weapon.
The mentally disturbed person who heard voices or had a compulsion to kill because of it. Also someone who should not be legally possessing a weapon in the first place.
The spree killer who does it for the sheer enjoyment and mayhem they cause in taking other people's lives. This is the least common type but the most dangerous. They aren't always easy to identify beforehand.

There are always combinations of the above (ie; mentally disturbed ex-employees/students) but none of them are singly gun nuts who own lots of weapons.

So while it sounds good on paper when you see who does the most crime, it's not always the ones everyone wants to point fingers at. This is why I think it's important to find a solution, not a reaction.

 

[Ant-manic]

I'll rephrase it like this: How then do you propose to disarm the most radical, violent elements of the gun nut subculture?

What I'm saying no one has come up with a believable, realistic way to handle it. You can't walk up to their house, politely ask them to hand over their cache of firearms and expect them to willingly give them away.

would this be a concern if the person with the weapons cache had committed a crime (ex. domestic assault)? same risk of being shot at, right?

 

[Teelie]

In individual cases that's different than en masse.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I used the PATRIOT Act as an example of good intentions gone awry. It was a reaction to terrorism and it's unforseen consequences are becoming more and more obvious (the loss of privacy and the fear of terrorism always waiting around the corner).

Not to derail the thread, but no. The Patriot Act wasn't good intentions. It was bad policy, made up by bad people, taking advantage of a national crisis.

All those consequences were by design.

Idiots, blinded by fear thought it was a good idea, and helped pass it.

 

[Ghostvirus]

^^^So maybe people who drink alcohol should be banned from guns since they're far more violent than schizophrenics in general.

I mean, shouldn't public policy should be based on facts and science not irrational fears and outdated stigmas about mental illness?

Congrats you read a article. I have lived in a substandard apartment for 10 years. I have witnessed every form of crazy first hand.

These people are unstable, & go from non-violent lovey dovey to angry & quite scary fast.

Also so many of these cats end up stopping their meds because they think they are better. These people should not have guns at all.

Live where I live for a year & you will change your mind.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Congrats you read a article. I have lived in a substandard apartment for 10 years. I have witnessed every form of crazy first hand.

These people are unstable, & go from non-violent lovey dovey to angry & quite scary fast.

Also so many of these cats end up stopping their meds because they think they are better. These people should not have guns at all.

Live where I live for a year & you will change your mind.

You're using pure speculation and opinion to determine how dangerous the mentally ill are.

The article is using facts. Maybe you should read it.

The fact is people who use alcohol are far more dangerous than the vast majority of mentally ill people. But society is willing to let alcohol users own a gun over someone who is mentally ill regardless of past history and regardless of statistical data.

This is public policy based on stigma, not science.

The crazy people in your building have access to many potentially leathal objects like knives, baseball bats, pipes, etc. But how often do they kill?

I'm not saying every mentally ill person should own a gun. But a gun ban should be based on violent history. Especially considering only 16 percent of the mentally ill are violent.

Compare that to the fact that HALF of all violent acts are alcohol related. But because violence by the mentally ill is heavily sensationalized we become the easy scapegoats for gun violence.

 

[regwec]

You can also reflect on the fact that some people are made violent by alcohol, and others aren't.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

You can also reflect on the fact that some people are made violent by alcohol, and others aren't.

Yes and only 16 percent of the mentally ill are violent people.

Yet we're all judged based on what that small minority does.

That sounds like public policy based on unfair stereotypes and over-generalizations.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Yes it's bad that the mentally ill are over twice as likely to commit violence (16%) than "normal" people (7%).

But intoxicated people are SEVEN times as like to commit violent crimes than others.

Blacks have a homicide offense rate EIGHT times higher than whites.

Why not make it illegal for blacks to own guns based on the increased likely hood for homicides?

Because there are tens of millions of blacks who are non-violent who should have the right to defend themselves. The same should apply to those who have a psychiatric diagnosis.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Even if you're the nicest, least violent crazy person in the world, you probably shouldn't have an extremely deadly weapon.

 

[Ant-manic]

Yes it's bad that the mentally ill are over twice as likely to commit violence (16%) than "normal" people (7%).

But intoxicated people are SEVEN times as like to commit violent crimes than others.

Blacks have a homicide offense rate EIGHT times higher than whites.

Why not make it illegal for blacks to own guns based on the increased likely hood for homicides?

because they mainly kill others blacks. and they keep the prison industrial complex churning. politics.