MCU Fight: Valkyrie Vs Ronan (No Power Stone)

[Thör-El]

I think this is one of the best and closest match ups so far, but ultimately Valkyrie would come out on top.

Yeah, I totally agree. I can understand people voting Ronan but I'm amazed the poll isn't closer.

Peter Quill was half celestial. That's why he could also hold on to the stone.

Are you guys still arguing this? Who can/can't wield the stones is moot. It's not a straightforward indicator of power and even if it was
A) it's not something we can use to compare Ronan to Valkyrie (who hasn't held a stone)
B) Valkyrie would beat Star-Lord and Malekith and has beaten Loki. They've all wielded stones.

 

[NHawk19]

^ AoU they were all sitting around trying to pick it up. Cap was the only one to budge it. Hela had previously wielded Mjolnir, and only stopped it from flying at her, before poisoning it so I'm assuming her previous log-in was still good.

As for Storm Breaker's power, it could be that you can carry it but it doesn't overrun you until you try to use it for some huge feat like opening the bi-frost. Same way you can carry around a grenade but don't want to be around once you pull the pin and use it.

BTW I vote Valkyrie. She's part of an elite fighting force, and sparred with Hulk . . . Ronan could hold the power stone, but how does he do against a good old fashion stabbing. . . .

 

[Flash525]

Mjolnir still had the worthy requirement after Thor 1. In AoU, remember the party scene. No one could lift it. Until Vision later in the film. Mjolnir in the Asgardian pictures was shown to have had Mjolnir before Thor. So he past connection maybe helped her hold in that regard.

I never said it didn't. I meant beforehand; I doubt the worthy element applied up until the point Thor was banished to Earth.

It does make you think though; Thor became worthy (again) because he put himself between the Destroyer and the townsfolk. Steve, Clint and even probably Stark have done similar feats, if not more, and they're not deemed worthy? How many sacrifice plays has Rogers made? Or Clint? Heck, Stark even went as far as to sacrifice his life for the city in Avengers 1.

As for Storm Breaker's power, it could be that you can carry it but it doesn't overrun you until you try to use it for some huge feat like opening the bi-frost. Same way you can carry around a grenade but don't want to be around once you pull the pin and use it.

Good Analogy.

 

[Finarfiniel]

For me Drax is powerful enough to fight and survive against an Asgardian warrior, even one as skilled as Valkyrie.

I don't think we've seen any evidence so far that supports that, MCU Drax doesn't seem anywhere near as strong, tough and durable as his comics counterpart.

I vote Valkyrie for the reasons already stated in this thread. She and Ronan are probably of fairly equivalent strength levels, but Valkyrie is much quicker, more agile and she's much more skilled as a warrior.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Honestly, I don't think we can claim Valkyrie is a more skilled warrior. Ronan barely had to do any fighting at all (and by that, I mean he fought Drax...and smashed a dude chained to a chair's head in). I am thinking after Captain Marvel, we'll get a better showcasing of him as a fighter. In GotG, he mostly just ordered people around.

 

[Finarfiniel]

Honestly, I don't think we can claim Valkyrie is a more skilled warrior. Ronan barely had to do any fighting at all (and by that, I mean he fought Drax...and smashed a dude chained to a chair's head in). I am thinking after Captain Marvel, we'll get a better showcasing of him as a fighter. In GotG, he mostly just ordered people around.

Whilst this may be true, going on what we've seen so far is all we can really do in any of these fight threads.

I'm just saying that in my opinion, from what we've seen in the MCU so far, Valkyrie seems like the more skilled warrior of the two. From his fight with Drax, we can see that Ronan is incredibly strong, but so is Valkyrie (throwing Sakaarians around like ragdolls, sparring with the Hulk, tearing parts off moving spaceships), and Valkyrie is also very fast on her feet (faster than Ronan, again from what we've seen) and incredibly skilled with a sword. Someone that can withstand fighting Hela for that long without sustaining serious and/or fatal injuries isn't someone to be taken lightly, if anything it shows that Valkyrie is vastly stronger, more durable and more skilled than your average Asgardian soldier, even the Warriors Three.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Ronan I think likely has her beat on power. Also, his warhammer has a ranged attack.

 

[BigThor]

Yeah, I totally agree. I can understand people voting Ronan but I'm amazed the poll isn't closer.

It's 9 to 11 now, remember everyone my accidental vote for Ronan was meant for Valkyrie.

So whatever the score is just subtract 1 vote from Ronan and add 1 vote to Valkyrie.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

They may not have an equal share of the load, but they still shared it. That much seemed obvious to me with their purple glow and broken skin.

And yet you won’t acknowledge the fact that Ronan held it all on his own. Even before that, Ronan took out The Other in seconds, a being Loki was seriously wary of. Once he had the stone, even Thanos seemed wary of him.

Quill was able to hold the stone due to being half celestial, yet still needed help to keep hold of it.

 

[Flash525]

And yet you won’t acknowledge the fact that Ronan held it all on his own. Even before that, Ronan took out The Other in seconds, a being Loki was seriously wary of. Once he had the stone, even Thanos seemed wary of him.

Quill was able to hold the stone due to being half celestial, yet still needed help to keep hold of it.

I'm quite happy to acknowledge the fact that Ronan held it by himself, though I'll remind you that he didn't hold it for long.

Loki and Ronan are also two very different characters; Loki doesn't like confrontation so much, whereas Ronan isn't new to it. I somehow doubt that Loki was afraid of The Other either, but rather, afraid of Thanos, and seeing as The Other was a messenger of Thanos, that's what troubled Loki.

Ronan was all about power. That isn't Loki; he's about survival and fame. They're two very different characters. We don't know whether Quill needed help holding it either - we only know that he had help holding it. Could it not be speculated that he'd have managed perfectly well on his own once he'd adjusted?

I'm not entirely convinced the stones can be used as an example of ones strength either. Just because one character can hold a stone, it doesn't make them any more likely to defeat another character without said stone.

 

[BigThor]

Well.......this has gotten weird.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I'm quite happy to acknowledge the fact that Ronan held it by himself, through I'll remind you that he didn't hold it for long.

I would disagree with that, he held it for plenty of time, enough time to travel between planets, and he showed no ill effects from holding it either. Which Quill did when holding it on his own.

Loki and Ronan are also two very different characters; Loki doesn't like confrontation so much, whereas Ronan isn't new to it. I somehow doubt that Loki was afraid of The Other either, but rather, afraid of Thanos, and seeing as The Other was a messenger of Thanos, that's what troubled Loki.

Sorry but a lot of this is assumption. And in TA we saw that The Other could cause Loki pain, even from a great distance.

Ronan was all about power. That isn't Loki; he's about survival and fame. They're two very different characters. We don't know whether Quill needed help holding it either - we only know that he had help holding it. Could it not be speculated that he'd have managed perfectly well on his own once he'd adjusted?

Sorry but this just isn't true. Remember when The Collectors assistant grabbed it and was torn apart? Exact same thing was happening to Quill before Gamora and the rest of the Guardians grabbed onto him, in fact it was happening to them all until they all joined in, Quill on his own would have been obliterated just like the assistant was. The movie actually went to efforts to show this. It was the whole point of the scene of them uniting to hold the stone. It was even shown earlier in the movie that previous groups had failed in containing the stones between themselves.

I'm not entirely convinced the stones can be used as an example of ones strength either. Just because one character can hold a stone, it doesn't make them any more likely to defeat another character without said stone.

It's been clearly stated in the MCU that only beings of great power can hold an infinity stone without dying. I would say that's a factor in a fight with another character who wouldn't be capable of holding one.

 

[Flash525]

I would disagree with that, he held it for plenty of time, enough time to travel between planets, and he showed no ill effects from holding it either. Which Quill did when holding it on his own.

Unless I am drastically mistaken, Ronan only held the stone when he smashed it into his hammer. That's not long at all.

Sorry but a lot of this is assumption. And in TA we saw that The Other could cause Loki pain, even from a great distance.

Did we see Loki in pain though? We saw him what, shiver? Hardly an indication he was in pain. In any case, even if the Other could effect Loki, I've stated already that he and Ronan are very different characters; Loki is a survivor, Ronan is a Warrior - as is Valkyrie and Thor.

Sorry but this just isn't true. Remember when The Collectors assistant grabbed it and was torn apart? Exact same thing was happening to Quill before Gamora and the rest of the Guardians grabbed onto him, in fact it was happening to them all until they all joined in, Quill on his own would have been obliterated just like the assistant was. The movie actually went to efforts to show this. It was the whole point of the scene of them uniting to hold the stone. It was even shown earlier in the movie that previous groups had failed in containing the stones between themselves.

You spoke above about not making assumptions. Ego was one of the first consciousness to exist in the known universe, and (presumably) came about shortly after these stones came into existence. If Quill was half of what Ego was, then I'd think he'd be far more resilient than the Collectors Assistant.

It's been clearly stated in the MCU that only beings of great power can hold an infinity stone without dying. I would say that's a factor in a fight with another character who wouldn't be capable of holding one.

Power isn't a defining factor in a fight though. You've still got to have skill, agility, and intelligence.

A big dumb brute would lose a fight to a lesser, smarter and more intelligent opponent. People are stronger and more powerful than a Spider, but if bitten by certain species of Spider, we're dead. Ronan's power isn't an assurance that he'd best someone more combat skilled than he is.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Unless I am drastically mistaken, Ronan only held the stone when he smashed it into his hammer. That's not long at all.

The thing is though, he wasn't like with Quill and the assistant were he was quite obviously being torn apart. Also, Eson the Celestial we see using the stone had it in his weapon also. I think the weapons are just a way to channel the power of the stones, same with the Gauntlet.

Did we see Loki in pain though? We saw him what, shiver? Hardly an indication he was in pain. In any case, even if the Other could effect Loki, I've stated already that he and Ronan are very different characters; Loki is a survivor, Ronan is a Warrior - as is Valkyrie and Thor.

Nope, Loki did more than shiver, he actually winced and moved his head away, indicating pain, which The Other was talking about/threatening him with.

You spoke above about not making assumptions. Ego was one of the first consciousness to exist in the known universe, and (presumably) came about shortly after these stones came into existence. If Quill was half of what Ego was, then I'd think he'd be far more resilient than the Collectors Assistant.

Quill was more resilient than the Assistant, he was able to hold the stone for longer than she did without it destroying him. However, the movie CLEARLY shows that without the help of the rest of the Guardians, it would have destroyed him. Hence why he was screaming out in pain, and the others were, until they all held the power together. I wouldn't say this was an assumption when the movie shows all of this happening.

If Quill wasn't half celestial, and just human, it may well have killed them all. However, that is an assumption.

Power isn't a defining factor in a fight though. You've still got to have skill, agility, and intelligence.

A big dumb brute would lose a fight to a lesser, smarter and more intelligent opponent. People are stronger and more powerful than a Spider, but if bitten by certain species of Spider, we're dead. Ronan's power isn't an assurance that he'd best someone more combat skilled than he is.

Yeah I can agree with that, power alone doesn't mean you win a fight. However it was stated that Ronan was part of the ancient war between Xandar and The Kree, and that Ronan came from a family of warriors. He also best the crap out of Drax while Drax was armed and Ronan wasn't. All of those things to me show he was a skilled warrior himself. Not to mention the fear his name alone striked into a lot of people.

 

[Flash525]

The thing is though, he wasn't like with Quill and the assistant were he was quite obviously being torn apart. Also, Eson the Celestial we see using the stone had it in his weapon also. I think the weapons are just a way to channel the power of the stones, same with the Gauntlet.

Why would the stones effect all people in the same way? Considering Ronan is no ordinary Kree, he's probably be enhanced somehow.

Nope, Loki did more than shiver, he actually winced and moved his head away, indicating pain, which The Other was talking about/threatening him with.

Maybe he was remembering something Thanos (or one of his minions) did to him, and feared it happening again? Maybe Loki had a session with Maw?

Quill was more resilient than the Assistant, he was able to hold the stone for longer than she did without it destroying him. However, the movie CLEARLY shows that without the help of the rest of the Guardians, it would have destroyed him. Hence why he was screaming out in pain, and the others were, until they all held the power together. I wouldn't say this was an assumption when the movie shows all of this happening.

If Quill wasn't half celestial, and just human, it may well have killed them all. However, that is an assumption.

A lot of this is.

Yeah I can agree with that, power alone doesn't mean you win a fight. However it was stated that Ronan was part of the ancient war between Xandar and The Kree, and that Ronan came from a family of warriors. He also best the crap out of Drax while Drax was armed and Ronan wasn't. All of those things to me show he was a skilled warrior himself. Not to mention the fear his name alone striked into a lot of people.

Drax was drunk and emotional when fighting Ronan. Drax has further been reduced in strength to his comic-book counterpart.

We should remember also that Valkyrie (whilst drunk) took out those bounty hunters(?) who had captured Thor when he first arrived on Sakar. Valkyrie is also a warrior, and was hand picked by Odin himself to be one of the Valkyrie. She's presumably older than Ronan is too? Simply because Thor is some 1500 years old, Valkyrie was a warrior subscripted to defeat Hela before Thor was born, so she's presumably 2000 years old (she'd likely need some years before her in order to be drafted into the Valkyrie in the first place).

That's 2000 years of experience, training, skill (etc) and she was Hulk's training partner so she can obviously take a hit or two (as can many Asgardian).

 

[BigThor]

AVEITWITHJAMON I know you're a big Drax fan, but in the MCU he's just not very powerful.

Drax is one of the most depowered CMB characters of all time.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Why would the stones effect all people in the same way? Considering Ronan is no ordinary Kree, he's probably be enhanced somehow.

The movie showed it effecting people in the same way, unless they were immortal or of great power, like Ronan. That's why Ronan is shocked when the Guardians contain the power of the stone, and says "How? You are mortal?"

Maybe he was remembering something Thanos (or one of his minions) did to him, and feared it happening again? Maybe Loki had a session with Maw?

So the Other is talking to Loki about pain, then touches him, we see a flash, and Loki then wincing in pain. Yeah, it ain't a memory.

A lot of this is.

I would strongly disagree, the movie quite clearly shows all of this, except for the last part which I admitted was conjecture on my part. The movie goes to lengths to show this stuff for a reason.

was drunk and emotional when fighting Ronan. Drax has further been reduced in strength to his comic-book counterpart.

We should remember also that Valkyrie (whilst drunk) took out those bounty hunters(?) who had captured Thor when he first arrived on Sakar. Valkyrie is also a warrior, and was hand picked by Odin himself to be one of the Valkyrie. She's presumably older than Ronan is too? Simply because Thor is some 1500 years old, Valkyrie was a warrior subscripted to defeat Hela before Thor was born, so she's presumably 2000 years old (she'd likely need some years before her in order to be drafted into the Valkyrie in the first place).

That's 2000 years of experience, training, skill (etc) and she was Hulk's training partner so she can obviously take a hit or two (as can many Asgardian).

Drax was drunk and emotional I agree, but Ronan still handled him with ease, he literally didn't break a sweat or get out of breath. It was very easy for him.

As for Valkyrie, I don't disagree with anything you said, I was simply pointing out earlier that Ronan is not an unskilled warrior. So power is not his only factor in this fight.

AVEITWITHJAMON I know you're a big Drax fan, but in the MCU he's just not very powerful.

Drax is one of the most depowered CMB characters of all time.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with any of that. However I would say Drax is equal to the average Asgardian

The thing is though, I am arguing for Ronan, not Drax .

 

[Flash525]

The movie showed it effecting people in the same way, unless they were immortal or of great power, like Ronan. That's why Ronan is shocked when the Guardians contain the power of the stone, and says "How? You are mortal?"

So Quill/the Guardians could've had great power? Mind over Matter maybe?

So the Other is talking to Loki about pain, then touches him, we see a flash, and Loki then wincing in pain. Yeah, it ain't a memory.

Okay, playing your theory out for a moment, I'll refer back to my other point here. Loki isn't a Warrior. Heck, he isn't even an Asgardian, so comparing Loki and his strength/power/position to The Other is, ultimately, irrelevant for the purpose of discussing a powered Asgardian vs an enhanced Kree.

Drax was drunk and emotional I agree, but Ronan still handled him with ease, he literally didn't break a sweat or get out of breath. It was very easy for him.

As for Valkyrie, I don't disagree with anything you said, I was simply pointing out earlier that Ronan is not an unskilled warrior. So power is not his only factor in this fight.

What else is then? What other attributes does Ronan show off when actually fighting other than power? He isn't shown to be overly agile, he isn't shown to be tactful, he isn't shown to have great stamina. He's powerful and durable. That's practically it.

Valkyrie still gets the win. #opinion

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with any of that. However I would say Drax is equal to the average Asgardian.

I would think him better than average. I doubt the average Asgardian can take half of what Drax has.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

So Quill/the Guardians could've had great power? Mind over Matter maybe?

I think the Guardians together do, that was one of the main points of the movie for me. Individually these people were lost, but together as a family they were capable of great and good things. That's what that scene showed to me at least.

Okay, playing your theory out for a moment, I'll refer back to my other point here. Loki isn't a Warrior. Heck, he isn't even an Asgardian, so comparing Loki and his strength/power/position to The Other is, ultimately, irrelevant for the purpose of discussing a powered Asgardian vs an enhanced Kree.

You say Loki isn't a warrior, yet in the MCU we have seen him fight plenty, and he is pretty good at it. Ehile he isn't Asgardian, he was raised as one, and taught their warrior ways, he has also fought in plenty of battles as was implied in Thor. If he was scared of The Other, who Ronan finished off in seconds, I think that shows how powerful Ronan is.

What else is then? What other attributes does Ronan show off when actually fighting other than power? He isn't shown to be overly agile, he isn't shown to be tactful, he isn't shown to have great stamina. He's powerful and durable. That's practically it.

Valkyrie still gets the win. #opinion

For me he showed skill when fighting Drax. And an ancient warrior who has fought in age old war is not going to be unskilled. Sorry but I think Ronan takes this, and it seems the thread poll agrees with me.

I would think him better than average. I doubt the average Asgardian can take half of what Drax has.

Okay, but that just further proves my point that while Valkyrie would put up a good fight, Ronan would be too much for her and would win. Drax could probably give Val a good fight and possibly win, which for me puts Ronan a level above Valkyrie.

 

[Flash525]

You say Loki isn't a warrior, yet in the MCU we have seen him fight plenty, and he is pretty good at it. Ehile he isn't Asgardian, he was raised as one, and taught their warrior ways, he has also fought in plenty of battles as was implied in Thor. If he was scared of The Other, who Ronan finished off in seconds, I think that shows how powerful Ronan is.

Compared to Thor he isn't a Warrior. A Gazelle can fight, doesn't mean it's a Warrior. Ronan finished off The Other with his Hammer (indirectly cause he didn't swing it at him). In truth, none of us quite know just what The Other was capable of, though I'm pretty sure Valkyrie could have taken him out too given the chance.

For me he showed skill when fighting Drax. And an ancient warrior who has fought in age old war is not going to be unskilled. Sorry but I think Ronan takes this, and it seems the thread poll agrees with me.

How? By standing relatively still and not getting hit? Ronan may have also fought in many wars, but we don't know his direct involvement in them. Was he obliterating planets from orbit? Was he down on the ground as a General? Was he on the front lines? It's all speculation. He might have worked his way up the ranks thanks to a tactful effort whilst in the safety of his ship for all we know. What's further great about the poll is that it enables people to have opinions. The result doesn't create facts.

Okay, but that just further proves my point that while Valkyrie would put up a good fight, Ronan would be too much for her and would win. Drax could probably give Val a good fight and possibly win, which for me puts Ronan a level above Valkyrie.

Except Valkyrie isn't an average Asgardian...

 

[BigThor]

The votes are 14 (Ronan) to 11 (Valkyrie)

Because my accidental vote for Ronan was meant for Valkyrie.

 

[Thör-El]

The votes are 14 (Ronan) to 11 (Valkyrie)

I still disagree with the vote on this one. I disagree a lot more strongly with the bizarre logic about Ronan holding the power stone somehow proving he's stronger than Valkyrie.

I think they're all in the same tier but for me it goes Valkyrie > Loki > Heimdall > Ronan > Malekith

Ronan with the Power Stone vs Malekith with the Reality Stone vs Loki with the Mind Stone Scepter would be an interesting fight.

 

[BigThor]

I still disagree with the vote on this one. I disagree a lot more strongly with the bizarre logic about Ronan holding the power stone somehow proving he's stronger than Valkyrie.

I think they're all in the same tier but for me it goes Valkyrie > Loki > Heimdall > Ronan > Malekith

Ronan with the Power Stone vs Malekith with the Reality Stone vs Loki with the Mind Stone Scepter would be an interesting fight.

I put Heimdall above Loki, remember The Casket of Ancient Winters isn't Loki's standard gear.

 

[Flash525]

I think they're all in the same tier but for me it goes Valkyrie > Loki > Heimdall > Ronan > Malekith

I put Heimdall above Loki, remember The Casket of Ancient Winters isn't his standard gear.

I too would place Heimdall ahead of Loki. That said, if they were to fight, Loki would likely win by deceit or trickery rather than brute strength.

Ronan with the Power Stone vs Malekith with the Reality Stone vs Loki with the Mind Stone Scepter would be an interesting fight.

I guess it depends whether said person knew what they were doing with their stone of choice. I'm not convinced Loki remotely used the Mind Stone with it's full capacity. I think a fight between Ronan and Malekith would be much closer; though it all depends on what these stones can do. If Ronan can merely enhance his strength, then I'd propose Malekith, with the ability to warp reality would likely defeat him!

 

[Thör-El]

I put Heimdall above Loki, remember The Casket of Ancient Winters isn't Loki's standard gear.

A fair fight could probably go either way. The "did Odin ever fear you?" line and Loki resorting to the casket of ancient winters implies he thinks Heimdall has a chance of beating him. I suspect Heimdall's physically stronger, similarly durable and he does have that feat taking out the dark elf ship.

But Loki doesn't fight fair and on feats he's miles ahead.

• He's fought Thor twice and between illusions and skill he made each a good fight (admittedly he had gungnir/the scepter and Thor was holding back)
• He's taken a savage beating from Hulk
• He's fought crowds of dark elves/undead asgardians without ever taking a hit (whereas Heimdall was almost killed by the same undead Asgardians)
• He made Valkyrie work for it to beat him in a knife fight

And if you think about it, conjuring the casket and freezing Heimdall before he could even finish one swing of his sword is a clear speed feat for Loki over Heimdall.